Eagle Rubber Stamps

[BulldogBlitz]

Nope, not a craft post.... I'm referring to what I seem to be witnessing within a troop.

 

"We have 5 Life scouts and 17 more who are Star or within a month of being Star. They need the adults to fill the paper work out so these guys can get their Eagle. I know some of the responsibility for doing the work falls on the boys, but we can do a great deal of it so we don't miss this great opportunity for our troop."

 

Is this situation wrong? Are we just attempting to be an Eagle mill? I know of the 5 Life scouts, 4 of them have point blank said they are not interested in scouts and are only there because their parents make them show. The parents of these boys hold positions in the troop, which to this point are going undone. The boys no longer attend campouts. They do attend meetings which they spend productively texting girlfriends, making snide comments about the scoutmaster, selling band raffle tickets, and other non-scout activities.

 

I, a lowly committee member, asked the scoutmaster if I could step in and help with these older boys either on an "eagle advisor" or an ASM assigned to this patrol. he said "thanks, but we already have someone doing those roles (not for the past 4 months), but if you have any ideas, I might consider them". This is a troop of well-meaning parent leaders, most of whom were never in scouts.

 

Is this what scouts has become?

Is this a changeable situation (or is it me that has to change my thought)?

Should I just run away from scouts all together because I'm "too demanding"?

[NeilLup]

Hello Bulldog Blitz,

 

I would suggest the answer is: find another unit.

 

You know, it appears, what Scouting can be. However, Scouting is very different from unit to unit.

 

These parents know what they want. They are well on their way to getting it.

The Scouts know what they want too. And, with the cooperation of their parents, they are well on their way to getting it.

 

I very much fear that you stand no realistic hope of changing the culture of this unit and the odds are that when these boys get their Eagle badges and the parents lose interest, the unit may die.

 

But you likely can find another unit that either does things the way that you believe they should be done or else where you can influence the culture.

[Nike]

Le me guess that these kids have been together since Tigers, and their parents bonded more than they did.

 

If you want to feel you did your due diligence then you might try to have a district of council level Eagle coordinator come give a presentaion to Scouts and parents on what the Eagle project entails and means, because quite frankly, I'm not sure this group understands.

[Proud Eagle]

There is an appropriate and inappropriate degree of help with these sorts of things. I did all of the project planning related paperwork for my Eagle, but when it came to the post project part, I did ask my mother to help a bit with preparing the final presentation materials. That being said, she certainly didn't write any of the content or go get signatures for me or anything like that. (On the other hand the Court of Honor she had a bit more to do with...)

 

In any case, I doubt anything will stop these people. Around here we might stop something like this since the Eagle BOR is done at the district level, but we might or might not know to ask the right questions to spot something like this, and then there is always the possibility of the kids being smart enough to cover for it on the fly.

 

I would say the real problem is "Scout Spirit". If I were their SM I would not sign off on that under these conditions. They are not living the Oath and Law if they are willing to get Eagle by hook or crook, and they certainly are not being supportive of their troop, or even giving a good attitude. The SM should give them something of a "shape up or ship out" talk.

 

In any case, not much you can do, other than politely ask pointed questions and make suggestions.

[frank10]

Never seen a rubber stamp, but you can get an eagle cookie cutter at the scout shop (grin)

[eagle77]

Whether you are on the committee or not you and your son are a member of that troop's "family" and as a member you do have a voice. Use it!!! As a member of committee you do have the right to question the program the the scoutmaster is running. What are these boys really learning? But more then that what are they doing to help the troop? From what you say nothing. First thing I would do is eliminat the electronics, and please don't worry about hurting somebody's feelings. Scouting is a learning activity, would they be able to do this in school? Next talk with some of the other younger boys and their parents, let them know this is not scouting!! Start researching to find a real Boy Scout Troop. Since the scoutmaster doesn't seem to care, evidently untrained and lazy, what he has going on here will soon spread to the younger scouts. then all you will have is a camping and badge club.

[mikecummings157]

You're absolutely correct that this isn't scouting. You have to ask yourself whether you, maybe with help from some other like minded parents, can influence a change in the culture of the troop? Also, is it worth the it, as there is likely to be conflict?

 

Maybe the best option is to find another troop in the area before your son gets infected by this.

[Bob White]

Understand that each unit is an individual entity. They all get the same handbooks but not everyone reads them and not everyone follows them.

 

The most important role a charter organization has is to select quality leaders.

 

The problem in the unit you have described is not a fault of the Scouting program but of the people selected to lead in in that particular unit.

 

You cannot have a scouting program when you do not follow the scouting program.

[evmori]

The problem in the unit you have described is not a fault of the Scouting program but of the people selected to lead in in that particular unit.

 

The problem is too many Scouts who need a POR & not enough POR's to go around! And as, I think Beavah pointed out, this could be a result of employing the First Class First Year program suggested by the BSA. The problem could also be the adult leaders but I don't think this rest solely on their shoulders.

 

Ed Mori

A blessed Christmas to all

[gcnphkr]

 

The problem is too many Scouts who need a POR & not enough POR's to go around! And as, I think Beavah pointed out, this could be a result of employing the First Class First Year program suggested by the BSA. The problem could also be the adult leaders but I don't think this rest solely on their shoulders.

I disagree. Yes, there are challenges that result from a FCFY program. But rubber stamping a POR is the fault of the leaders willing at accept breathing as meeting the responsibility. In our troop the scouts are very aware that there are not enough PORs to go around and that if they are unable, or unwilling to meet their obligation they will be removed and replaced by someone who is.

Regarding filling out the paperwork. 12 Eagle Scoutmaster Conferences this year. There is a huge contrast in the quality of the paperwork that these scouts do. I've yet to see a first draft application that was 100% correct. Some of the project paperwork is very organized while other times it is chaos. Most take two or three passes to get it coherent enough that a board can look at it without excessive effort. But while they may need coaching, there is nothing there that the scout can't do themselves. The only paperwork that I could imagine an adult doing is the application, but that is also about the simplest for the scout to do--give him a copy of the TroopMaster application report and let him fill in the blank.

[evmori]

I am not advocating rubber stamping anything. My point was it isn't always the fault of the unit leadership when things like this occur.

[scoutingagain]

I don't believe the unit described represents the majority of scout units. In fact I hope it represents a small minority. It does not represent the unit I serve. All our candidates complete their own paperwork. Sure it is reviewed and commented on by at least one adult leader and the the candidate is coached on how to improve/correct the documents. But then the candidate is to do them. As noted, sometimes it's 2 or three iterations. Then the SM and CC will sign them for submittal to council.

 

As others have noted, the level of detail and quality of presentation varies considerably from candidate to candidate, especially the first draft. For many scouts, they have never had a document scrutinized to this level before. It's part of the learning experience.

 

Heck, I've been in the adult workforce for over 30 years now and if I have a major document/project going to a client or my boss's boss, I get the same treatment.

 

SA

 

 

SA