Signing Off on Rank Advancement Requirements

[BobS]

Question for the group -

 

How do your units handle signing off on Rank Advancement requirements? Our Troop has been using a Troop rule for at least ten years, that is no longer workable and I'm looking for ideas. I've tried getting the PLC to come up with suggestions, as it was originally a PLC that created the current rule. Unfortunately, the PLC elected to "delegate" the revision of the rule to the Scoutmaster - me.

 

I always thought the "official" or original plan was to have the Patrol Leader sign off on a Scout's rank advancement. After a review of the Boy Scout Handbook, the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Advancement Committee Guidelines, I can't find anything at all. Maybe I've missed it in there.

 

Anybody have any suggestions, or care to share how things are done in their Troop?

 

Bob

[Bob White]

Have you ever checked the Scoutmaster Handbook on this?

 

It explains the correct procedures in the Advancemnt Chapter under the heading "Step 2- A Scout is Tested".

 

If your goal is to follow the Scouting program then the contents of the BSA handbooks might be the place to start.

 

 

[SMT224]

Here's how we do it:

 

Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmasters sign off on rank advancement.

Scoutmaster signs off on the Scout Spirit & Scoutmaster Conference

Committee members sign off on Board of Review

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

PL and any scout of Star or higher rank can sign off requirements for T-2-1 (except the last 3 reqs and the swim req for 1st). S-L-E are to be signed off by SM or ASM (again except the last 3 which are done by SM and Committee). Not too complicated.

[gcnphkr]

From the advancement guide:

 

The Boy Scout is tested. A Scout may be tested on rank requirements by his patrol leader, Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmaster, a troop committee member, or a member of his troop. The Scoutmaster maintains a list of those qualified to give tests and to pass candidates. The Scouts merit badge counselor teaches and tests on the requirements for merit badges.

The PLC delegated this to the correct person. This is your job.

In our troop those things that require testing (those that say explain, demonstrate, describe, repeat from memory, identify or tell) are signed off by myself or someone who I know has that skill. Others are generally signed off as they occur or during the SMC. I recently had a scout transfer from out of state. All he had left to do for his Tenderfoot was 10b (show improvement). He wanted to know who should test him on this. I told him that he could do it himself. His eyes got big with surprise. I said, "You are a Scout. I know you would not cheat".

[shortridge]

Bob White,

 

I believe BobS did indeed state he'd checked that resource:

 

"After a review of the Boy Scout Handbook, the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Advancement Committee Guidelines, I can't find anything at all."

[mikecummings157]

In our troop the Andvancement Requirements are signed off in the book by an ASM or the SM, unless it's your own son. Then another ASM will sign-off.

 

Scoutmaster Conference is done by the Scoutmaster, again unless it's for his son. He will then delegate this to one of the senior ASM's.

 

Committee does the BOR. Again, Committee Members can't sit on the BOR for their own son.

[Narraticong]

In our young troop sign off is done almost exclusively by the boys. Patrol Leader either does the testing himself or designates another Scout who has the knowledge.

 

My experience is that the boys are often tougher than the adults as far as making sure the requirement is met. In my mind that means the boys take it seriously.

 

If we are to have boy leaders, then they are the ones that should handle advancement. If it were up to me, the Board of Review would be made up of two Scouts and the Committee Chairman.

[Bob White]

Shortridge writes "Bob White, I believe BobS did indeed state he'd checked that resource: "After a review of the Boy Scout Handbook, the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Advancement Committee Guidelines, I can't find anything at all." "

 

Which is why I gave him the location in the Scoutmaster Handbook for the information.

 

If you were to look in the scout master handbook for information on testing advancment where would you look?

 

IN advancement perhaps? Under Testing? The information he seeks in in the fiorst paragraph.

 

Where he looked when he "did not find it" I do not know. But if he looked in the section about testing advancement I do not see how he could not have found it. if he looks again I am confident he will find the correct answer.

 

Jet56 has the correct answere and he got it from the very refeerence I shared.

 

Anyone ASM or Scout approved by the Scoutmaster can test for the requirements that they are approved for.

 

The Scoutmaster manages the advancement program, not the PLC, and not the committee. That does not mean that the SM is the only who who can pass requirements, it means the SM is the only one who determines who can pass requiremenst and the SM is the only one who can determine which requirements others can test based on their rank and responsibilities as wel as they abilities.

 

 

 

[gcnphkr]

My quote is from the ACP&P. The SMH is less helpful:

 

A Scout wanting to complete an advancement requirement must demonstrate to his leader that he has fully mastered a skill at the level expected. In a new-Scout patrol, that leader might be the assistant Scoutmaster or the troop guide assigned to the patrol. Scouts in regular patrols and Venture patrols might be tested by adult troop leaders or by their own patrol leaders, troop guides, or another junior leader, provided that the boy leader has already earned the rank the Scout is aiming for.

It gives examples of who the leader might be but does not specify how to determine who the leader is in any situation, and complicates it by assuming that a Scout that has earned a rank retains the knowledge of the skill. If only it was so.

(It sure is nice having these in PDFs. I need to get the Scout Handbook scanned).

[IM_Kathy]

our troop the guides and patrol leaders help teach the skills and work with the scout until they have it down... then the scout demonstrates that skill to an adult leader who then signs it off (not allowed to sign off your own child's)

 

that adult is either SM, ASM, or CM... many of the T-2-1 are done at campouts so it's just who ever was there among the adults.

[asm 411]

In our troop the basic rule is that the SM, ASM or any Scout who has earned the rank of First Class can sign off on the foundation rank requirements. Only SM and ASMs can sign off Star, Life requirements. Only the SM can sign of on Eagle requirements. Of course the BOR is always signed off by an attending committee member. That is what we do.

 

Sometimes I wonder if things should be different. For instance shouldn't the Advancement chair sign off on the merit badge requirements. The SM and ASMs have to check with the advancement chair anyway.

 

Perhaps any Scout that has learned a skill should be able to sign off on that skill for the foundations ranks. For instance we had a Webelos Scout cross over last February. Loves First Aid so much we call him Doc. Whenever there is an injury Doc is the Scout that does the patching up. Doc completed his First Class requirements last month. I would have been more comfortable with him teaching first aid than some of our older Scouts at summer camp. No that the older Scouts are terrible just that is something Doc really likes. So in that case why not let him sign off on the requirements?

[Lisabob]

Our troop's policies have been that any ASM and any scout ranked Star, Life, or Eagle can sign off on the T-2-1 requirements. Only ASMs can sign off on higher rank requirements, and only the SM can sign off on SM conferences for Eagle. ASM Parents and higher-ranked siblings are strongly discouraged from signing their family members' books.

 

This works ok if everyone is on the same page in terms of expectations and standards. It does not work well when there is a lack of communication or shared understanding of those standards. It also does not work well when you have adults with weak basic skills, or with some boys who may have attained rank but who lack the maturity to take sign-offs for lower ranks seriously. On the flip side, in larger troops, there needs to be some kind of delegation because otherwise the SM gets overwhelmed.

 

Consequently I think it might be better to take a more fluid approach such as the one asm411 indicates with his 1st class "Doc" scout. But that also means more work figuring out who is allowed to sign off on which skills.

[kenk]

My son's troop (I'm an ASM & Advancement Coordinator) does pretty much what others do.

 

Scout

SM "signs off" (not really a specific place to do it though).

 

TF through FC

--All but SS, SMC, & BOR - Any Scout who Star or above can sign off; SM or ASM - preferably not a parent - can also sign off. We prefer Scouts to do it. The Advancement Coordinator (me) usually signs off on service hours and camping nights since I track that stuff, unless a Scout, SM, or ASM knows the counts.

--SM signs off on SS & SMC, except for his son - then its carried out & signed by an ASM.

--BOR is usually signed by a Troop Committee member after the BOR, but sometimes will be signed off by the Advancement Coordinator.

--MB Blue Cards are usually signed by the Advancement Coordinator, but, of course, could also be signed by the SM. Of course the MB counselor signs the appropriate portions - except for MB's completed at summer camp - then the Advancement Coordinator inserts the camp name instead (our summer camp doesn't use blue cards - Council keeps those records & gives Advancement Coordinator a copy at the end of each week of camp.

 

Star through Eagle (though his young troop hasn't had an Eagle yet - close)

MB's, Service, & POR - usually signed off by Advancement Coordinator since I track those items, but could also be SM or ASM.

SS & SMC - same as above.

--BOR - same as above.

--MB Blue Cards - same as above.

 

 

[Beavah]

Hiya BobS! Welcome to da forums.

 

Can I ask what you were doing up to this point that was unworkable?

 

Generally speakin', I agree with you - the PL (and perhaps APL) should be responsible for their patrol, and should be allowed to sign off requirements for T-2-1. SPL/ASPL should sign for PL's and troop PORs. In short, boys should be takin' responsibility for the learning and development of other boys.

 

Now, I think that's easier if you've got mixed-age patrols, where the PL's are older boys with solid skills and experience, eh? Yeh can't have a NSP PL signin' things off, and often it's a bit much to ask of some 7th graders. So in those cases, you might limit signoffs to older boys and adults whose skills and judgment you're comfortable with. That's da bottom line anyway, eh? Boys and adults whose skills and judgment you're comfortable with.

 

Seen all kinds of permutations over the years, though. One of my favorites was a troop where da signoff had to be done by a different patrol leader. When a boy's PL thought he was ready, he sent his patrol member over to the camp of a different patrol, and that patrol leader did the testing and signoff.

 

B