is this adding requirements or not?

[wtr100 10]

hope this is the right place for this

 

when I went to the scoutmaster basic training course it was explained to me that we were to follow the requirements exactly - not to add to them nor to leave things out.

 

It seems to me my troop over the years has added quite a lot of 'paperwork' to the requirements. An example

 

 

Second Class

#5 Identify or show evidence of at least ten kinds of wild animals (birds, mammals, reptiles, fish, mollusks) found in your community.

 

My troop requires the boys to fill out a form provided by the troop the form may or may not require a leader to initial that in fact the boy has seen the animal. It also requires the boy to look up the animal in a reference book, list the book and the page and why they think they saw what they saw. There is some push back on boys that don't use the 'troop policy' form.

 

It seems to me this is a pretty clear case of 'adding' to the requirements or am I missing something?

 

thanks

 

[Beavah 205]

Hi wtr100! Welcome to da forums, eh?!

 

I think you're startin' out asking the wrong question. I'd recommend that the first question you always ask about anything is somethin' like "Is this good for the boys - does it help them learn, does it teach character, etc.?"

 

That in my book is the only real important question. We're here to help kids.

 

So ask yourself whether the system your troop has set up is helping kids. Boys going for 2nd class are going to be first-year scouts, eh? 11-year-old boys are not known for their personal organization! Maybe there's some merit in giving them some additional help with that. Many units do something similar with sample forms for helping them plan their 2nd class hike - sort of a mini "Tour Permit".

 

Now, if the answer is "no" - this mechanism has become cumbersome and is really getting in the way for a lot of kids, then yeh are probably adding to the requirements. If the answer is "yes", this thing is still helping a lot of kids to learn and achieve, then the answer is "no", you aren't adding to the requirements.

 

Either way, that would be a decision that belongs to your troop's Scoutmaster, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[molscouter 10]

Couple of questions come to mind.

 

One, are you the Scoutmaster or an Assistant? If you are the Scoutmaster, you have say so over what to accept as evidence and who can approve it.

 

Do they require the same thing for the first class plant identification requirement?

 

Using the form might be convenient, but it seems to me requiring it is wrong. Requiring them to list the book they found it in is definitely wrong. A kid who identifies something on a hike is not going not likely to remember exactly what it was a day later when he gets home after the outing. Or if he does, what if the kid goes on the net instead? Not allowed?

 

There's a fine line between making sure a boy has done the requirement properly and creating so much red tape it discourages him.

(This message has been edited by molscouter)

[evmori 11]

What is on the form? Is it nothing more than a place to list the wild animals?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad 2783]

>>It seems to me this is a pretty clear case of 'adding' to the requirements or am I missing something?

[John-in-KC 311]

Barry,

 

Quick and technical sanity check. The original poster indicated this was stuff for T-2-1, not an MB.

 

I am also of the following schools:

 

- Scoutmaster is the Program Officer for the unit. He/she gets to make the call.

 

- As Beavah said, does it help the youth? If it does, then I'm not going to comment further.

 

 

[wtr100 10]

 

 

the form looks more or less like

 

Animal Name Resource (name and page number) Leader Initials

 

This is just an example there are several places where this is an issue - at least to me.

 

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

the form looks more or less like

 

Animal Name Resource (name and page number) Leader Initials

 

This is just an example there are several places where this is an issue - at least to me.

 

Seems like nothing more than a standardized sheet for the Scouts to use to list the animals they find. I would say it isn't adding to the requirements.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn 61]

We just returned from our Big Long Walk.

This time of the year the Robins are out in almost full force.

Seen a few crows, doves,starlings and a couple of Turkey Hawks.

Rory chased the local Ring-neck Pheasant and Friday caught a field mouse.

We seen evidence of deer and rabbits in the form of their droppings, we also came across a dead groundhog and a few chipmunks -still alive!!(Didn't see any last year)

While the way that has been outlined is not the way that I'd go about doing it. -I prefer to make it more of an outside activity and have used different ways of trying to make it a little more interesting (Taking photos or looking for something that is a little more rare that I know is there -Like our local fox!)

I can't say that I see anything wrong about what is being asked from the Scouts.

Not wanting to split hairs! But there are times when the evidence of the animal is not the Lad seeing the animal.

During the winter I often see Rabbit tracks in the snow and rabbit droppings with no sign of a rabbit in sight, the same can be true of deer.

This being the case the Lad hasn't seen the animal so "why they think they saw what they saw." When they didn't see it might be questionable?

To my way of thinking the requirement is about making the Scouts aware about local wild life and what is going on around them more than an exercise in looking things up in books -Which isn't a bad thing.

Still at the end of the day having a form works for the Troop I see no real harm.

I'm just not sold on the idea that one size fits all. Kinda goes back to making the program fit the boy and not the boy fitting in the program.

Eamonn.

[frank10 12]

I don't know if it is adding to the requirement, but it sounds like it sucks the fun right out of being a scout.

 

I see this requirement as a big kids easter egg hunt. Most of my scouts have taken to listing each animal sighted (or sign there of) in the back cover of their hand book and they done stop at 10 animals or 2nd class. Eagles still add to the list. It's not required, they just love to do it.

 

KISMIF.

[Trevorum 24]

If a young Scout and I were both on a hike together and he pointed out ten different animals to me, I'd sign off the requirement then and there. However, if the fellow spotted the ten critters while I wasn't around, I would certainly ask for some kind of documentation. I'd generally accept a simple list - species, date, environment. The documentation requested by other Scoutmaster might vary. I don't think I'd make up a "form" for this requirement, but another SM certainly might, without adding to the requirements.

[evmori 11]

Technically, the animals are just to be identified. If the Scout goes to his Scoutmaster & tells him he completed this, the Scoutmaster should sign off. This isn't a discuss or list or tell about requirement, however, I don't see the problem giving the Scouts a sheet to use to list the animals identified. Requiring it, though, now that I think about it more, would be adding to the requirements. I gotta stop thinking!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob 13]

While I wouldn't want to cover this requirement in quite such a "classroom" manner, I am also not sure whether I'd charge up the hill for this one. It may depend on just how zealous the troop leaders are in "enforcing" this expectation. Also keep in mind that probably no SM is "perfect." So if this is the one thing people aren't thrilled about, is it a big enough thing to take the risk of alienating current leaders? Is this nit picking? Or is this a big deal in terms of how the unit works and doesn't work? Can this be neatly circumvented by simply changing the way the troop program incorporates this one requirement? ("Hey Joe, I heard about this great idea for how another troop handles this requirement - how about we give it a try?") Or does it need to be a direct confrontation with the SM? These things are judgment calls which (IMO) cannot be made over the web. But they are worth considering both in answering your original question and also in figuring out what to do with that answer.

[SemperParatus 1]

Doesn't the Scout Handbook have a place where you list the ten animals you saw. Why use another piece of paper? I would much prefer they use the Handbook for the resource tool it is intended to be.

[epalmer84 10]

I don't think a simple form like this is a violation of the intent or spirit of the requirement. I'm not enthused about a lot of the worksheets I have seen they may make it easier for the instructor, but they seem to take some of the initiative away from the Scout.

 

The only thing I require is "do my best". I do expect material, especially written reports, to reflect their grade level. I do recommend that they make notes for requirements that require a discussion.

 

Ed P.