What is an active Scout?

[Mr.Maynard 10]

What is an active Scout?

Per our Bylaws it goes like this

 

ACTIVE SCOUTS DEFINED

A scout is active when he attends a minimum of 1 scouting event a month and 1 scouting campout per calendar year. Inactive scouts will not advance in rank until he fulfills the active scout criteria. (Example: A scout wishes to advance from Star to Life Scout. He must have attended a campout within the previous year and have made at least 1 event each month over the past 6 months.

 

What is an active Leader?

Active Troop Leaders Defined

This is a trained and registered leader who assumes a leadership position on the committee and had attended at least one meeting per month and one campout in a calendar year. Leaders who do not meet this requirement will be put on inactive status and removed from the leader roster.

 

Now with that said

Being Committee chairman for my troop I put together a excel sheet with all it boys info on it & a leaders sheet calling it an Active Roster for both boys and leaders.

If at anytime the committee decides that they need to go over the rosters and get people off that are not active per the Bylaws of the troop this is allowed.

(This is about every 3 months that this is done.)

There is a leader and a Scout that have not done anything with the troop for about 2 years no meeting no anything.

Now all the sudden its time for summer camp and he is trying to get the scout active so he can go.

The scoutmaster tells him he has to be active in order to go to camp or advance in rank. The Scout started showing up for meetings became active and paid for his summer camping now he is back on the inactive list.

The scouts father is the type of guy that will come into a meeting and start yelling at anyone who will listen to him about how wrong his son is being treated and that we are doing him an injustice by not letting him advance in rank and not letting him hold a senior position.

How can you let him hold a position and not be there?

 

 

 

[epalmer84 10]

Andy over at NetCommish has a good column on this:

http://netcommish.com/AskAndy95.asp

 

Ed

[OldGreyEagle 5]

If the scout is registered in your troop, then he is active in the eyes of the BSA

 

Now, I say that because that is what I beleive, have been told that by others who beleive the same thing. You will no doubt have other posters who will disagree with me, and I accept that.

 

The question I do have is why does your Troop have By-laws it doesnt enforce? You have recharted twice in the past 2 years, why was the absent scout recharted if he did not meet your Troops By-laws? If he is good enough for you to pay money to have him on the roster, why is he not good enough to go to camp? What is the reason for having By-laws you dont enforce?

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I'm with OGE on this, eh?

 

Yeh have a kid who hasn't been around for two years, why did you recharter him? There's a reason each unit is supposed to do a roster review as part of that there recharterin' process, eh?

 

Lots of troops have had this issue crop up from time to time - a boy who doesn't participate in anything, but then shows up for camp because his parents want the BabySitters of America's low-cost week off. A lot of times those lads are pretty disruptive at camp, because they don't have a real commitment to the program or any long-term relationships with the leaders.

 

Yeh gotta decide whether it's worth taking a shot that you can re-inspire junior to be a committed scout with a week at camp, or whether you're just bein' taken advantage of.

 

If it's the latter, just say no, eh? Not a registered scout, no camp. Adult volunteers don't want to camp with a lad they don't know (who has a parent likely to give 'em grief if anything "goes wrong"), no camp. Yeh can't make a volunteer babysit your kid for free just because you want 'im to.

 

As for the other stuff like a position of responsibility, I figure that mostly it's better when the lad's peers tell him they don't want him in a position because he never shows. No need for adult rules in a good youth-run program, eh? The boys will be more firm and frank than the adults. Then you just tell dad "Hey, I agree with da SPL. If your son wants a leadership position, he needs to convince the other boys that he's worthy of their trust."

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC 311]

I also agree with OGE and Beavah. If the Scout is invisible, why did your Troop recharter him, and do so more than once?

 

As far as what the SM said, if the parent's folks make an issue of things with the DE or the DC, your unit may well end up on the short end of the stick.

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut 147]

From the BSA National Web site - http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/mbc/rank.html

 

"Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined? Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if: He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current). He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons. He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on). The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position."

 

 

 

[scottteng 11]

http://www.freewebs.com/activescout/activescout.htm

 

I have chimed in on this topic before quoting the letter from our district advancement chair which was meant to clarify this in all our minds. Rather than argue about what the letter meant I have scanned copied it and posted it to the above web site. Any attendance requirements are forbidden for active or scout spirit. The previous posters are exactly correct your only opportunity to get rid of deadwood is at recharter time. If they are inactive in your opinion do not recharter them if they want to pay their dues and you are not comfortable with considering them active send them elsewhere. As a matter of fact keeping them engaged is specifically defined as your responsibility as a leader whether or not they attend any activities.

[Oak Tree 15]

Yeah, I see the definition on the national site. It seems to me that they are redefining the word 'active'. I like the definition from the Webelos book better - "Active means having good attendance, paying den dues, working on den projects." If the Boy Scout Handbook just means 'registered', then it should just say 'registered'.

 

But the only time that really matters is for rank advancement, and thus far I've never had an inactive boy try to advance.

 

But for the rest, it doesn't really matter what the definition is. You can decide who can go to summer camp. The SPL appoints the leaders with the Scoutmaster's advice. You don't have to let the boy go to camp, participate in any given activity, or hold any position. You don't have to be yelled at by the father. You don't have to recharter him. You're in charge. Build a consensus among your other trusted leaders, and confidently act like you're in charge. You don't have to let this father run roughshod over anyone.

 

Oak Tree

 

 

[nldscout 18]

It appears that National has finally put into print a definition of Active.

 

Now I would tell you that if you read it very carefully you can see there is still room for Troops to still hold scouts to a standard.

 

"He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on). "

 

Now tell me what that means and what is "regular"???

[scottteng 11]

But maybe this summer camp will light that boy's fire? He will see something in the program he never saw before! If they are willing to pay the freight let em come. The council would take em as provo's anyhow. Even find a troop to register them in if that is what it took(yeah right tell me your DE wouldn't). Do we want an exclusive club of only the most motivated boys or do we want as many as possible to get all they want out of scouting? I have very fond memories of going to a camporee and I never ever was a boy scout went as a webelos. It's all there on my tenure three years as a cub scout never a boy scout except as a leader.

[Mr.Maynard 10]

Hi all

Ok lets get this right!

Maybe I should have been a little clearer.

The leader & scout in question have been gone for 2 years and have been on the charter yes.

The reason they are on the charter is that his buddy was the one doing the recharter and just put him on. Neither the Scout nor the leader paid for recharter his buddy just turned it in with out him paying for it. So without knowing about it the Troop ended up paying for it.

After the charter came out this year after all is done we proceeded to look it over and found their names on it again. I had asked the person who was doing the Charter why he was on there still after 2 years of being inactive the reply was he wanted to be. At that point I had asked the person that was doing the recharter to step down and appointed another Committee member to the job. (So thats how they are on the Charter.)

After I had asked him to step down he called the leader in question and told him what happen at the committee meeting.

He showed up at our next outing and talked to the SM and promised to get his son active and to pay any owed money to the troop the SM agreed to this as long as he became active again.

They showed up to 2 meetings and now they are not here again but he did pull a fast one and paid for his sons summer camp in full while paying the troop back for the 2 recharter that was paid for by the troop ok he caught up on everything.

Now we have not seen the scout in 2 months but he will be here for our summer camping trip. The only reason the father did this is so he can go on the trip! After the trip we will not see him till next spring just in time for summer camp.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Ok, Mr Maynard...

 

"The reason they are on the charter is that his buddy was the one doing the recharter and just put him on. Neither the Scout nor the leader paid for recharter his buddy just turned it in with out him paying for it. So without knowing about it the Troop ended up paying for it. "

 

I will hope you were not the Committee Chairman at the time of at least one of these recharters. I've been a CC, and the recharter guy. Internet rechartering now appears to be a National standard. With it, I was able to give a draft copy to my SM/Adv (who does have a signature on the form, as well as the Executive Officer of the Chartered Partner (IH), who also has a signature. We went through the list carefully before finalizing. Recharter is a PROGRAM and a SUPPORT task, and the Committee has responsibility to ensure it's done right.

 

With Internet rechartering, even if you have hit the send key, you can call your DE and tell him "we goofed." They are supposed to dump the old file, give you a new passcode, and allow you to restart the process.

 

As both ScoutNut and scotteng have posted, what is done is done. National has clearly stated the UNIT is responsible for contact with the Scout. How you implement that hopefully is PLC primary, with some form of adult-adult backup. You're on the hook. Period.

 

The only thing I can offer is if this young man has been a discipline issue before, you might consider registering and training one or both parents and expecting them to be part of your adults at the LT camp. If they cannot play, then he cannot come. It's a drastic measure, but it often works; the parents are wanting you as babysitters, and any form of "commitment" from them sends them away.

 

Beyond that, at next recharter, talk with your COR, get his/her concurrence (they do own the unit) and tell this parent: "We will not recharter you or your son. When you've found a new unit, we will gladly transfer his and your records."

 

If this Scout is not the only one who is "camp only", then you may need to sit down with your SM, your COR, and your UC, and re-evaluate program delivery.

 

Let us know how this turns out.

[Mr.Maynard 10]

Yes I am the CC of my troop. By the time that the recharter came out he had just paid his fees for everything the guy who had the job of the recharter had held off giving it to us till his buddy had paid up for everything by this time it was to late.

That is why it is no longer his job it the troop. so what is done is done for this year.

 

Now you ask if the scout has a discipline issue yes he does he is 15 6-8tall and 290lbs and he uses it to bully the other boys. So we always have to baby sit this scout. (What a Pain) His father is a registered leader but doesnt go on any campouts.

This will all be changing.

Dont take all this the wrong way this is just 1 scout 1 leader that this is all about.

This guy can find a loophole in anything.

We have no problems with any other boys or leaders as far as the by laws in the troop.

We stick to them and that is that but when you have someone going around the back way with help from another leader (His Buddy) I need to make sure that door is shut.

 

I try to keep insight that this is all about the boys and if the Scout wanted to become active I am all for that.

After all thats what it is all about!

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, Mr. Maynard. There are procedures for this, eh?

 

Yeh go to your council registrar, and you tell her/him that the boy and his father should be moved to "inactive" status on the charter.

 

Then you thank the two of 'em for their participation several years ago, and refund their money for summer camp.

 

There's no such thing as a "done deal" when we're talkin' about making the program work for kids. A Scouter is Brave. We all must do the right thing to protect da program for all the adult leaders and boys. And if yeh all feel the right thing is for this family to "move along", then there's ways of doin' that.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Mr Maynard, you said, in part...

 

"but when you have someone going around the back way with help from another leader (His Buddy) I need to make sure that door is shut."

 

What Beavah said. I had not heard of Council being told to make a scout inactive on charter before, but Beavah used to be a Council Commissioner. He knows many more ways of the trade than I.

 

In the meantime, before or while you are arranging to refund the money, bring your COR, Unit Commissioner, and DE into the loop. If the Dad has a history of end runs, you want to make sure these key players are backing you up!

 

 

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)