Scout forged ER MB requirements

[Tucker]

We have a scout that forged an Eagle Required MB so that he could be advanced to the next rank. During his Life BOR and after much discussion he finally confessed. I need suggestions of how to handle this situation.

[mk9750]

Man, sorry to hear that.

 

I would classify this as aggregious (sp) disregard for the Scout Law. As such, I would delay the conclusion of the Board of Review until such time as the Scout could remedy the situation.

 

For me, that would include at least the following:

 

1) An apology to the Scoutmaster, the Board of Review, and the MB Counselor whose name was forged.

 

2) Completion of all of the requirements of the MB honestly.

 

3) A period, at least a month or so, but probably not more than three or four months, in which the Scout demonstrates that he actively accepts and lives by the Scout Oath and Law.

 

The BoR should give the Scout very specific guidance as to how he can overcome this transgression.

 

I don't believe any Scout should be punished permanently for not living up to the Scout Oath and Law. However, things like this can't be over looked. What is ashame sometimes is that some Scouts end up getting punished permanently for a mistake. If the Scout who did this is being reviewed for Star at 13 or 14, he has ample time to correct his mistake, make ammends, and use what he has learned to become a better person. But, if the BoR was for Life and the Scout is a day or two short of being 17 1/2, he doesn't have time in that case to fix his error and make Eagle, if that is a goal.

 

Ever since I was invloved in a similiar situation (a serious breach of the Scout Law within a month of a boy's 18th birthday), I have wished that there was some provision for dealing a BoR in order to allow the Scout enough time to make ammends. If your Scout is young enough, this can be a terrific learning experience for him. If not, it still might be a good learning experience, but it will also be a mistake with which he lives for the rest of his life.

 

Good luck to both of you.

 

Mark

[Lisabob]

Yuck. Sorry to hear you are facing this situation. We recently went through something similar. If the blue cards have been signed by a registered MBC for that badge then my understanding is that you more or less have to give the boy the badge. However, I think it is up to the SM to have a long, serious talk with this boy about the scout oath and law, beginning with "A scout is trustworthy." There are of course also leadership and respect issues here. And I think the SM should be clear that he isn't about to sign off on the scout spirit requirement for quite some time, until this scout demonstrates that he understands and has learned (appropriate lessons) from this error in judgment. Maybe ask the scout to come up with some concrete ways in which both he and the SM might be able to determine when such a time has arrived. In my eyes this is one of those times where the SM has to "earn" his or her "pay" and actively guide this scout, even though it is unpleasant to do so.

 

Be sure to keep your committee in the loop since they're the ones who have to sit on the BORs. This includes reporting any positive change that you may see in the scout. As a committee member myself, I really dislike being put in a situation where I know a scout has done something significantly wrong but I don't know if or how the situation has been resolved between the scout and SM, and yet I'm asked to make a decision about advancing the scout at a BOR.

 

 

[Trevorum]

Excellent advice from both Mark and Lisa.

 

I believe that cheating is rampant throughout our society and that trustworthiness is one of the most valuable ethical lessons that Scouting offers. This episode is a teaching moment in the young man's life. What he learns from his mistake will shape his character. Good luck.

[EagleInKY]

Nothing more to add, other than to say Mark gave you a GREAT answer. Use it wisely!

[nldscout]

I have one word that would cure this from ever happening in the future

 

JAIL

[John-in-KC]

I agree with what Lisa and Mark said. To me, the issue is whose signatures were forged.

 

If the MBC, then the entire MB is invalid.

 

If the SM sig is the forgery, and the Scout completed the MB to standard, then the issues to address are trustworthiness and obedience. (In this case, obedience to the system).

 

Absolutely agree with Lisa about SM keeping his committee in the loop. Surprises on BORs are BAD THINGS.

[NeilLup]

Hello Tucker,

 

First a question to consider. Why did the Scout do this? Does he feel tremendous pressure? Is he overscheduled? Are there very substantial parental expectations? Is this out of character for him, or does he normally cut corners?

 

None of these necessarily excuse his actions, but they may help explain them. If he was responding to pressure that he felt insurmountable, then hammering him might only make things worse. He needs help to address the pressure.

 

But if he routinely cuts corners, that's another matter.

 

Cheating in schools is becoming more and more common. One of the reasons is a very high level of perceived pressure to succeed.

 

If, for example, you simply bring matters to his parents and it is their pressure that caused it, it may only increase the pressure on him.

 

As was said, depending upon how long he has before he turns 18, it can be desirable to enable him to slow down. What does he think is appropriate? How does he think he can make things right? If he is only trying to get his Eagle as fast as possible, he may feel that his problem was getting caught rather than fudging the signature.

 

So, to summarize my thought, I believe our objective is to end up with a Scout who is able and willing to accept a lower level of objective accomplishment in order to continue to be trustworthy even in the face of extreme pressure and expectations to perform. I don't think it is possible remotely to decide how best that should be done. You need to decide that and you run the risk of being wrong. But your prime considerations should be the boy and the other boys in the Troop.

[nldscout]

If I was the MBC who's signiture was forged, there would be no question as to what to do.

 

I would already be at the police swearing out a complaint for forgery. This is not an issue where a scout cheated on a requirement, HE BROKE THE LAW, in a big way and needs to be treated accordingly. This is serious business and needs to be corrected right now. The committee has no business discussing this, it should be turned over to law enforcement for proper action.

 

[Hunt]

"I would already be at the police swearing out a complaint for forgery. This is not an issue where a scout cheated on a requirement, HE BROKE THE LAW, in a big way and needs to be treated accordingly. This is serious business and needs to be corrected right now. The committee has no business discussing this, it should be turned over to law enforcement for proper action."

 

Hold on, now. This kind of forgery is probably not a crime, because it was not done for the purposes of theft or fraud. While it gets a benefit for the boy, it doesn't financially harm anybody else. It is like forging your parent's name on an excuse slip for school--that isn't a crime either. The police would not be interested in this.

 

Also, we don't know what exactly the boy forged. The worst, in my opinion, would be if he forged the MBC's name and never did the work at all. Next worst would if he did the work, but couldn't reach the MBC and forged the signature. Not quite as bad, but still bad, would be if he forged the SM's signature authorizing him to start work on the MB. But perhaps what he forged was some element of the particular badge--again, still bad, but how bad depends on what it is. We don't have enough information to make a judgment of what should be done, or how serious the consequences should be.

[nldscout]

HUNT,

 

FORGERY as defined by the Penal Law of New York

 

"A person is guilty of forgery in the third degree when, with intent to defraud, deceive or injure another, he falsely makes, completes or alters a written instrument."

 

So regardless of what he did, its a crime, a SERIOUS crime. So what if it had been your signiture on the MB card, what would you say? Oh lets forget about it this time, maybe he won't do it again?

 

So whats he going to forge next, someones check or a receipt or something of monetary value?

 

He broke the law, its time to let the Law handle this.

 

[BrentAllen]

Take this to the police, and you will either get laughed out of the precinct, or a big set of rolled eyes and a "NEXT!" They will tell you they only have time to deal with real crimes, and don't bother them with such petty issues. If the officer isn't in a hurry, he will probably add in a little lecture about "if you can't handle these sorts of issues in your Troop, you have no business being a leader..."

[nldscout]

BRENT,

Maybe where you are you law enforcement people are lazy and would tell you this, but I doubt most would. A crime is a crime, we take it serious where I come from. Maybe it would just be youth court, thats why they have it, but something should be done.

 

Any officer of the law that told this to someone and as a Judge I found out about it, would get a serious lecture from the bench.

 

Oh by the way, forging your parents signiture on a note is a crime also.

[BrentAllen]

Maybe you live in Mayberry, but here in the Atlanta area, we have real crimes. As a taxpayer, I want the police going after real criminals, not busting Boy Scouts for forging a signature on a merit badge card. The lesson that needs to be taught can be handled by Troop leadership, without involving the police or the courts.

 

Speaking of judges, I saw something similar happen regarding high school students and the school principal. The seniors (Scout age, but not Scouts) came up with the idea of putting the body of an old Cherokee van in the school courtyard as a prank. This required using a boom truck to lift it to the roof, so they could carry it to the courtyard. They were caught at 1:00 AM and arrested. The principal pressed charges for trespassing and breaking and entering (they never actually entered the building proper). It went to court, with one of the students representing the group, almost Animal House-style. After hearing both arguments, the judge turned to the principal and gave him a stern lecture about wasting the court's time with an issue that should have been handled at the school. He told the principal that since he had wasted his and the court's time, he (the principal) could not punish the students and they were to be allowed to graduate. Upon graduation, the students' records would be wiped cleaned.

 

Did they break the law? Yes.

Was it a serious crime? No.

Should it have been handled by the school administration? Yes.

[Hunt]

"A person is guilty of forgery in the third degree when, with intent to defraud, deceive or injure another, he falsely makes, completes or alters a written instrument."

 

The problem here is that a forged blue card does not harm ANOTHER, except in a pretty attenuated way. I suppose a (weak) argument could be made that it defrauds the troop because they might spend a couple of bucks on a patch. Here's a good explanation of the element of the crime that's missing here:

 

"The document or writing has to have some legal significance affecting at least another person's right to something, usually some property right, broadly defined to include intellectual property like the form of a signature. Legal significance is distinguished from social significance. A writing of social significance cannot be the subject of forgery; e.g., a letter of introduction. Similarly, if you found an old book by a famous author and wrote their signature inside the front cover to make it look like an autographed edition, you would not be guilty of forgery because this has social, and not legal significance. But, if you were to sell the autographed book at an auction, you would be guilty of false pretenses."

 

Similarly, the forged excuse note would not have legal significance to anybody but the student.

 

But even if you stretch a point and argue that these sorts of things might theoretically fit within the definition of the crime, I continue to think that it would be extremely unlikely that any police department would be interested in the slightest in pursuing this as a criminal matter, unless it was somebody who knew you and wanted to humor you.