"Subtracting requirements" on merit badges

[CubScoutJo]

Here's three examples that I can think of so far where merit badge counselors have been "subtracting requirements"

 

1. Fishing merit badge. Taken at camp, boy had no luck catching any fish, and therefore did not complete requirment #10 (catch 2, clean one) Counselor told the boy that as long as he caught two fish in the past two years, he could pass the requirement. (This is a new scout, so he wasn't even in boy scouts over the past two years, and he's never cleaned a fish)

 

2. Camping merit badge. 3, 4, 5a All are requirements that say to write a plan, make a chart and make a list. Scouts got these signed off at camp simply by participating in a group discussion, no writing was required. (another camp one)

 

3. Citizen in the Community: For 7c, scout was allowed to use a combination of several volunteer experiences to fulfil the 8-hour for an organization requirement. Some of the volunteer work was also used to count towards his rank advancement (double dipping?) and the scout did not have actual records of time spent, so no proof that he actually fulfilled 8 hours.

 

I can probably come up with several more of these, but you get the point.

 

What can I as a committee member do when these situations arise? Once the blue card is signed off by the counselor, must we take that blue card and award the badge even if the scout tells us these things as listed above?

 

Should we even be asking the scout about his experiences in the merit badge to make sure they are being done correctly, or do we just take the merit badge counselors word for it?

 

I'm frustrated because I tell my sons that they need to do the requirements as spelled out, but then the counselors let them slide by doing less than required. They are not learning that some things take effort, they are just learning to be lazy.

 

Am I being to critical?

 

Jo

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

CSJo,

 

Taking personal responsibility for a job well done is our goal in Scouting. The emphasis is on the taking personal responsibility which is probably more important than the requirement. One would need to look closer to see that if the overall goal of improving Character has been met in the BOR by others or at home by himself during his meditations.

 

Let me review. What about being trustworthy? If a person does not do all of what is asked, is that person trustworthy? The goal of the requirements for fishing is not just to check to see if a person can catch and clean a fish but to check for obedience. Catching a fish is just plain old fun and cleaning to cook one is just part of the reward but then it could also be a brave act as well, if one had a little fear about doing it.

 

What about being friendly or even kind? Can a person catch a fish, clean and cook it and feed their ASM? There is an element of kindness brought to bear in that one requirement that goes well beyond the fishing MB. If a person finds that the Scouting program is not just fun but goes deeper into one's life and makes a person full and I don't mean just on fish but on happiness or cheerfulness, then loyalty can also be achieved. It also gives a reason to be courteous because we begin to find Brotherhood, which also brings us to the brink of Reverence.

 

Of course I don't mean to leave out the practical part of cooking, cleaning and eating and that is thrifty. Most of us will find it a necessity to be able to do so some time in our life, so getting a good start will ensure us against a day that we may depend on it.

 

So, I would want the Scout to review a few of these points and make a decision for himself on how he wants to be known and especially how he wants to know himself. Hopefully he will want to enrich his character but then some chose to do otherwise but that is a choice we each make in our own heart. FB

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

[OldGreyEagle]

I understand your frustration, sounds like the Camp was run like a real merit badge mill rather than a Scouting Experience. One question I have is why your efforts seem to be concentrated on what to do with the scouts. What about the camp? Do you plan on making your displeasure of the situation known to the Camp Director? The Council Camp Committee? The Council Executive? If you want to show your sons a good example, show how to fight the situation at the source and put an end to an apparently bad situation.

[scoutldr]

For the MB at camp, you need to have a frank discussion with your Council Advancement Chair and Camping Committee Chair. If the camp is not in your council, a polite but succinct letter to the Scout Executive of that council is called for, stating that you will not be returning to his Council's camp if they keep shortchanging your scouts.

[CubScoutJo]

The third example I mentioned was not from camp. I know of a couple other instances where this same thing has happenned with non-camp merit badge counselors.

 

I guess my question is how far as adults should we go in checking up on these? Or should we be? As far as the ones earned at camp, I am very suspect about many of these. The Troop just got back from camp this weekend. The two camp related ones involved my sons. The only reason I know about the two mentioned was from talking to my sons. Are we to talk to all the boys who took merit badges to ask them if they feel they completed the requirements as signed?

 

For my own sons, I did talk to my boys about it, and told them that they would have to decide if they felt they earned that part of the badge and if they did not, they should find another mb counselor and complete the requirements as worded. However, I'm not sure that their sense of right and wrong is developed enough to do that. I think they are happy that they have got them signed off. And as one of them told me, "the counselor said it was okay. As long as we answered one question in the discussion". I think they might not want to rock the boat either. After all, they are young kids. Like I said, I feel they are learning to take the easiest way possible. This is not a scouting trait.

 

I am thinking that a good plan might be to discuss this with the scoutmaster who could then discuss this with the boys.

 

Jo

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Jo, I agree that this is hard on the young scouts in particular, and even more so when we're talking about one of those "Eagle-required" mbs, where some older scouts in the group are just trying to push through. If the younger scouts acknowledge that they didn't really do the work in a thorough way, the older scout is now in a position of either agreeing - and not having a completed mb - or disagreeing, and looking bad. So in some ways maybe the younger scouts' sense of right/wrong is actually a better compass, but there may be peer pressure there too.

 

Here's what we're doing this summer as a troop to try to reduce or avoid this problem at camp. Late in the week we'll be doing a check with each boy at camp to discuss what has/hasn't been signed off on their blue cards and whether they agree with this. Hopefully by doing this at camp, before the mb is "complete" and while the mb counselor is still available for discussion and additional work (if needed), we can circumvent a situation where a scout comes back w/ a fistfull of mbs but no clue what he did to earn them, or if he even earned them. This is by no means perfect - scouts who really intentionally want to shove through a mb would still be able to do so I guess - but I am hopeful that having that conversation while the experience is still fresh and on-going will make that less likely. And if we find that mb counselors are short-changing scouts (signing off on things the scout agrees he never did) then we're right there to discuss it with the mb counselor and camp director, as need be, and hopefully have a little time for the scout to try to finish requirements as well.

 

 

And personally I think your notion of asking the SM to talk with your own scouts about this situation is on the mark. Also I think it is helpful to remind scouts that learning doesn't end just because you got the badge. There are always opportunities to continue and solidify (or gain for a first time I suppose) skills that were glossed over in the mb, and offer some practical ways that they might do that. For example, maybe they'd like to do a patrol campout that includes a trip to a good fishing hole. They may roll their eyes - especially at their parent (anyway my son would) - but then again some of them might grasp that opportunity too.

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

 

[EagleInKY]

We approach it from both directions as well. First, at camp, we monitor what's happening in the MB classes. Our camp started publishing a daily status on each class, by scout. These are kept in binders in the Scoutmaster's lounge (in the admin building). I check them a couple of times (mid-week and toward the end of the week) to see how things are going. I also try to keep eyes and ears open. If I get wind of an issue, I usually take it straight to the program director. I've found going to the MB counselor directly yields very little results. Over the past few years our camp has focused on improving the quality of MB instruction and we've noticed a significant improvement in it.

 

The second approach we use is to go straight to the scout. A few years ago we learned that the Mammal Study instructor signed them off on the report because they talked as a group about mammals during class. Now, I just happened to be walking by that day and listened in. There "talking" amounted to the MB counselor reading some text verbatim out of the MB pamphlet for a couple of minutes. We found out about this late (Friday or Saturday) and were unable to get it resolved with the camp counselors. So, at the next troop meeting I had a conversation with the boys. It revolved around "a Scout is Trustworthy" and whether they had actually completed the MB. The boys all agreed that they had not completed the work. (Well, all but one, but he succombed to peer-pressure). They agreed to write a report and complete the MB.

 

I've used this latter approach a few times. I think it reinforces the scout Law and makes sure we maintain some integrity with our MB program.

[Beavah]

Yah, there's no doubt that a lot of MBCs out there are shortchangin' our kids. And it's only natural for kids (like adults) to take the easiest path to the reward, eh?

 

When reportin' MB's to the council, someone in your troop (usually the advancement chair) has to sign the statement "I certify that the following record of advancement is correct and that it meets the standards and requirements of the Boy Scouts of America." I think you have to do that honestly, don't you? And if you can't do it honestly, you should explain to the boy why. Boys are honest and honorable critters if you give 'em a chance.

 

Then help them to have a real MB experience.

 

Then do your duty and make sure the first MB counselor gets re-educated.