Lost Blue Cards

[firecrafter]

What happens in this situation?

Completed blue cards are handed to scouts after summer camp. Scouts lose blue cards before they are registered with council.

 

The Advancement Chair in our group has records that say MBs were completed at summer camp (computer print out), so it's not a question IF scouts completed the MB. SM wants scouts to take their records to an approved MB councelor and have then sign off. He feels that since the cards were lost, it is up to the scout to make sure they are replaced (boy run and all that). AC says blue cards are not important and that he & SM can just sign new cards. Neither are MB councelors.

 

I'm a MB councelor myself & have always told scouts to keep blue cards in a safe place. It's my understanding that this is the scouts record of work completed.

I have sat in on several Eagle BORs where the blue cards were included in the Eagle canidates folder for the BOR to view. I've always thought the cards were important, as my boys were told to keep careful track of them. Does a scout need to keep his blue cards in careful order?

firecrafter

[Eamonn]

One of the English Scout Laws was:

. A Scout makes good use of his time and is careful of possessions and property.

So a Scout should take care of his "Stuff"

However it's not the end of the world if a card does go astray.

Eamonn

[evmori]

If a Scout came to me as a MB counselor in this situation, I would make sure he knew what he was supposed to know & do what he was supposed to do for the MB he lost the blue card for.

 

In my unit, we don't give the Scouts their blue cards after summer camp. We complete the advancement report, purchase the MB's & return their portion of the blue card along with the MB at the next COH.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

I had a conversation w/ our district adv. chair about this situation not too long ago. Her take was that, while the leader who is not a MB counselor might be acting in good faith here, it is still a MB counselor's job (and only their job) to sign off on MB requirements. Someone who is not a registered counselor shouldn't be doing so, for any reason. I know people do it anyway but I'm inclined to agree with her.

 

Lisa'bob

[John-in-KC]

Recommend you have a talk with your Reservation Director for the camp you attended.

 

"Does the (name of) Council maintain the Counselor record books after the camp season?"

 

If the answer is yes, then:

1) Boys name

2) Camp session

3) MB in question

 

... and there is a record of completion. Then, it's a matter of cutting an advancement report off the xeroxed page.

 

Of course, a Scoutmaster Conference about "helpful" and "to help other people at all times" (how are you being helpful when others have to find your MB info? How are you helping other people when you have to have them helping you? There's a balance between help for need and help as a "crutch) might be in order...

 

If not, then it's sorta Orwellian... the records don't exist, why don't we hook you up with Mr or Mrs X (our local counselors for N MB) and you knock out the work and get it redone? Life's not fair, deal with it.

 

FWIW, my Council hands the completed MB cards to the Camp Scoutmaster as part of outprocessing, and they get to the youth to review the meeting after the unit gets home.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[sst3rd]

As a Scoutmaster, I don't usually care for computer programs, but if the Advancement Chairman has already recorded these merit badges, he is verifying and legitimizing what happened at summer camp. That information can be used to record on the Advancement Report. This Advancement Report is as good as any missing documentation if ever needed. So, this problem is a "non-issue."

Our summer camp gives a package of completed and not quite completed merit badge documentation to the Troops, at the Friday night campfire. This stuff never should really get in the hands of the Scouts. Our Troop keeps folders for each Scouts advancement documentation, in a desk drawer at the meeting place. Collect all of this stuff from the Scouts, and keep it for them. You'll be glad you did.

For crying out loud Scoutmaster, take a chill pill and move on.

 

sst3rd

[firecrafter]

At the camp our scouts attend, blue cards are computer generated. They are given to scouts on the last day of camp to review with an adult to make sure everything is correct. If there is a problem this gives the scout an opportuntiy to speak to his MBC before he leaves camp. The camp does not maintain individual records after a scout leaves camp (we asked).

Our AC does keep a record for each scout, but in this case the MB cards were lost before they could be recorded by the AC.

I like the idea of a "good talking to" about taking care of your stuff along with taking MB records to a REGISTERED counselor to sign off. I don't think it's right to ask the SM to sign off on something that he isn't supposed to, just because a scout was careless. I guess I'm old school, it's not the end of the world, but the methods we use are in place to teach responsibility, no?

firecrafter

[John-in-KC]

Firecrafter,

 

If the cards themselves were formatted, printed records from a database, then I sincerely hope your Council dumps the database to a CD-ROM and takes it back to the Service Center after the season.

 

Assuming the above is true, it's back to my earlier recommendation: Call your Council. Ask if they have the source records from last summer. If they do, get a copy. Then Scout has a completed MB. If they do not, it's Orwellian, but the record does not exist, it never existed.

 

There's another SM conference and lesson: Life isn't fair, sometimes you have to deal with that fact.

 

(Personally, I really do hope the records are available. Being the heavy in a "life isn't fair" conversation just is not fun).

 

[sst3rd]

Firecrafter,

 

 

You said, "The Advancement Chair in our group has records that say MBs were completed at summer camp (computer print out), so it's not a question IF scouts completed the MB."

Now you're saying, "Our AC does keep a record for each scout, but in this case the MB cards were lost before they could be recorded by the AC."

 

From the very beginning, our Troop adult leadership always took summer camp paperwork to look over and review with the Scouts. And this paperwork stays with the adult leadership and is recorded and put in each Scouts file back home.

 

I'm old school too, but all the Scouts are going to remember, is that they did the work, and are now penalized. I doubt many will want to repeat the work just to be taught responsibility. Pick your battles. A Scout is Helpful.

 

 

sst3rd

[firecrafter]

First, the MBs were done at a camp out of council. The camp and council were called & they state that they do not keep records after the camp session ends. Maybe they just don't want to deal with it...I don't know. What our AC was given is a printout (from camp) of each scouts daily attendance & which requirements were met each day. This looks more like a schedule than anything, and there is no signature from a MB counselor anywhere on it. I'm not even sure the counselors name is listed. The only actual record was the blue cards which have unfortunately been lost. As I understand it, the cards were complete but had not been signed off by the SM or recorded with the AC.

 

I am not at all suggesting that the scout(s) redo his work, only that he takes his records to an approved counselor to have the MB cards replaced. Sorry if I was not clear on this point.

The AC in our Troop would like the SM to sign off new cards where the MB counselor is to sign. SM is opposed to doing that, not opposed to helping the boys replace their cards. He seems quite willing to issue new cards, help the boys find counselors and provide their records. I think he is concerned about the validity of the MB being questioned at the counsil level, because he is not an approved MB counselor.

 

Is the blue card only an "in troop" record, and as such, not that important once it has been recorded with council?

As I stated, I have seen the blue cards carefully looked over during Eagle BORs.

 

It might be a better practice not to return blue cards to the scouts after camp. I'm still out on that. When a scout sees a MBC on their own, they carry the completed card back to SM & then to AC. Our SM likes to have the boys be responsible for getting the signatures they need. He also gets a chance to talk to scouts as they finish.I believe this is why the cards get returned to scouts after camp. I need to ask about that.

Not trying to punish or penalize boys here, just wondering how everyone else does things.

I appreciate hearing your replies!!

firecrafter(This message has been edited by firecrafter)

[Venividi]

I agree with the SM on not signing the MBC line on replacement blue cards. I agree with you on having the scouts contact appropriate MB counsellors to have the cards replaced. The counsellor may choose to give credit for work completed, plus ask the scout to demonstrate the skills and explain topics he was to learn.

 

How each MBC handles the situation would likely be dependent on the requirements for the badge - the scouts can show the MBC baskets, woodcarvings, leatherwork projects, etc. from craft type projects; show notes taken during field observation for mammal study; demonstration of canoe strokes to a MBC provides an opportunity for a fun outing. And it need not take long for a scout to do this, provided the quality of the summer camp badge was sufficient for the scout to learn the skills and the scouts had paid attention to their summer camp MB instructor.

 

I think much will depend on how it is presented to the scouts. If it is presented as a "punishment" or "you have to do the MB over", they will pick up on that attitude and see it as being penalized. If it is presented as an opportunity to show off what they learned, you can build them up.

 

I recently finished up counseling a scout that had come back from last summer's camp without record of his first aid MB work. When the scout first contacted me, I told the scout that I believed he was trustworthy, and trusted that he did indeed do the work; and explained that I was also trustworthy, such that when I put my signature on a card, BSA could trust me that I was certain that the scout had completed the work and had learned the topic. I offered the scout the opportunity to demonstrate the skills to me, and then provide some refresher instruction only in those areas that he didn't remember. I explained that this allowed him to benefit from what he had learned at summer camp. He was agreeable. Unsurprisingly, there was a large amount of material that he didn't know. I strongly feel that first aid is one of the most important skills, and that I would have short-changed the scout had I merely signed the card as a replacement for summer camp.

 

One thing not mentioned is how many MB records per scout were lost. Personnaly, I like to see about 3, with the balance of the scouts time spent doing fun stuff with their buddies; hikes, open swim, open range, etc.

 

Venividi

[firecrafter]

Venividi,

Great advise! As a MB counselor myself, I feel the point you made about being trustworthy is really important! When I put my signature on the line I want to know the scout got something out of the time he spent working on the badge. The boys know I'm tough, but fair. They also know I really enjoy working with them.

A total of 5 or 6 badges were lost by two scouts this year. Last year we had three scouts who had incomplete records from camp. They had been marked absent from sessions when we knew they had attended. We asked those boys go to counselors in our district to get things sorted out. It wasn't presented as a "do-over", more of a "how can we fix this?". I agree that how this is presented to the scout is everything.

I really appreciate your insight on this, thanks!

firecrafter

 

 

[BSAMustang]

to back up to the summer camp staff policies and procedure... our council just finished focus groups on this and other topics about our camps.

A consensus was formed that too many scouts are sitting in too many MB classes with ill-prepared staff, with poor resources, syllabus and record keeping... attending a class is NOT the same as discussing or demonstrating a required skill... all camps should be computerized enough by now to keep good records... fill out an evalution for the camp you attend that does not meet your scouts' needs!