New first class requirement question

[wyomingi]

Last night the boys were told that there will be a new first class requirement starting in January. They will have to discuss scouting with a friend and invite him to a meeting. Some of the boys pointed out that they have already met this requirement. In fact 3 or four of them had got a friend to join scouts. Can they be signed off on the requirement in January or will they have to repeat it?

[FScouter]

The new requirement does not take effect until Jan 1, 2006 and applies only to boys that have not already started working on first class requirements by that date. After July 1, 2006 all boys that have not completed first class rank will need to complete the new requirement.

[AvidSM]

It depends on how they word the new requirement. If it says, "While a Firt Class Scout, do the following...", then it won't count if they did it as a Scout or Tenderfoot.

 

I hope that's not the case because I also have some boys who have met the requirement during our fall recruitment drive.

 

 

[evmori]

The following requirement will be added starting Jan. 1, 2006. Any Scouts who pass their Second Class Board of Review on or after that date will need to fulfill the new requirement. Those Scouts who pass their Second Class Board of Review before January 1, 2006 will have until June 30, 2006, to earn First Class without completing the new requirement.

 

Tell someone who is eligible to join Boy Scouts, or an inactive Boy Scout, about your troop's activities. Invite him to a troop outing, activity, service project or meeting. Tell him how to join, or encourage the inactive Boy Scout to become active."

 

That's the offical word!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[mdutch]

That still leaves open the question of when you can complete it. If a tenderfoot scout completed it on Dec 31, 2005 would it count?

 

Also, Ed, where did you get the first half of your quote?

 

[ASM416]

If it does not state "as a second class scout" it can be completed at any time. Scouts in our troop work on all the requirements at the same time. Most of the focus is on working toward the next rank, but we never stop a boy from working on a requirement early.

 

Hope that helped!

 

Tim

[Eagle1973]

It's a good thing a Scout is trustworthy, because the new requirement as posted by Evmori doesn't say a thing about the prospective Scout coming to a meeting or actually filling out a membership form, we've got to trust that the Second Class Scout actually did the requirement.

[evmori]

usscouts.org

[LongHaul]

In General a boy can work on any requiremetns for any rank up to First Class at any time and in any order. The stipulation of "While a XXXX scout (where XXXX is a rank) do the following; has been removed from the lower ranks. As I understand it a boy can finish Frist Class before he finishes Tenderfoot but can't pass the BOR. Ranks must be completed in order. The question is can a boy fullfill a requirement by doing something that wasn't a requirement when he did it? The requirement says do "whatever" it doesn't say do "whatever" while, after, during, at, or any other qualifier. If the boy does "whatever" he has met the requirement that says do "whatever".

LongHaul

[anarchist]

chicken - egg, egg-chicken???

ummm, how can a boy "do" a requirement that does not exist?

 

Not to pick nits here, but the requirement seems to say that the boy "will do" the requirement, not "will have done" (in the past so to speak). Seems to indicate to me anyway that:

1) if the boy has not achieved 2nd class by Jan first he has to "do this requirement" not has to have done it in the past...and If he has passed second class before 1/1/06 he is "grandfathered" for six months (towards finishing first class without having to "do"...the requirement...

 

once again BSA could straighten this out with a few quick lines but..no....frustration abounds..

Anarchist

[LongHaul]

I don't know if this is going to clear up or muddy things. Lets say that National in it's infinite wisdom decided to change the required badges for Eagle. Beginning January 1 ,2006 you must earn Swimming merit badge. does that mean that those who have earned it prior to Jan 1 , 2006 can't use the badge already earned?

LongHaul

[FScouter]

"once again BSA could straighten this out with a few quick lines but..no....frustration abounds.. "

 

When a boy tells you he already did that requirement and wants you to sign his book, what are you going to tell him? You can think a little bit about our aim of character development and have a little conversation with him. You can help him to choose for himself whether what he did last year should "count". Is that so hard?

 

I think our national organization purposely words requirements in this manner. Not to frustrate leaders, but to challenge us to BE leaders, to give us yet another opportunity to teach character to boys and fulfill the mission of Scouting.

[LongHaul]

Here I agree with FScouter. When a boy comes to me to have to me and asks to have his Tenderfoot req. 2 (...sleep in a tent you helped pitch) and says "I picked the site and pitched the tent myself so will you sign off Second Class req. 2b.?" (...select your patrol site and sleep in a tent that you pitched) I say NO. Some will say you can't use the same "action" to qualify for two separate requirements but say a boy come to you and says "I just earned Swimming Merit Badge, will you sign off my First Class swimming requirements?" Do we make him do them again? Do the five activities used for Second Class req. 2a. count for First Class req 3? I say yes and point to the Merit Badge requirements for upper ranks. The wording says earn X more merit badges(so that you now have A+X in all). If National didn't intend for the second class 5 to count in the First Class ten they would have worded it different. Though as FScouter points out National could clear it all up with a word or two and sometimes just punctuation.

 In my last post I was trying to fuel the discussion, personally I look at the merit badge already earned as a deliberate act on the boys part to acquire a skill or receive recognition for his efforts. The boy actively worked toward an advancement goal. If a boy brought in his class mate last year it wasn't with the intent of fulfilling rank advancement. His goal was to offer the boy the Scouting experience. Now he needs to offer that experience to another friend for the duel purpose of rank advancement. That all said how would we SMs feel if the requirement change was to First Class req 3 so now the boy needed 15 activities would activities attended before the implementation date not count? As FScouter pointed out our aim is to build character and encourage ethical and moral ideals, I feel we shouldn't allow semantics, wording, or punctuation to get in the way. We ask ourselves if the act being offered fulfills the intent of the requirement and act accordingly.

 LongHaul

[FScouter]

Bears repeating

"... our aim is to build character and encourage ethical and moral ideals, I feel we shouldn't allow semantics, wording, or punctuation to get in the way."