Double Eagle

You may want to contact the Kandersteg International Scout Center in Switzerland per their website.  As an American, I've been there a couple of times and they host summer and winter programs with scouts from a lot of countries.  They also have a neckerchief and patch trade on the side like most scouting events.

Oh, our wonderful PWD.  It always seems to bring out the worst in some.  I was back participating in the PWD again after a long break.  The local pack has a "siblings" category and "masters" category.  Only the scouts' present year car was able to complete at the scout level.  I really like the two categories for non-scouts. 

As for assisting in the build of the car, if there wasn't any help, we would probably be racing blocks of wood with finger paints.  We tend to assist scouts in other areas, even setting up a tent, so not much issue with scouts getting help.

One option I like is for the PWD to also be a "car show".  Any car of any era was put on display and raced as time permits.  This brought out cars from over 20years back and some of the themed cars were interesting. 

Bottom line, PWD should be a fun event and not cause anyone to lose sleep. 

It was mentioned earlier about homesick scouts.  One way I managed to work through this is for homesick scouts (you tend to know who they are), is for parents to give me one motivational envelope per day for that scout.  Basically, each morning or time when they are having the most trouble, give them the handwritten message from the parent about how proud they are to be on their own and doing scout stuff.  I like this approach instead of having to call a parent and talk a scout into having a good time. 

Comfort items:  soft camp shoes, Frisbee, hacky sack, plastic hand clamps. 

Oh summer camp!  A few thoughts come to mind.  Years ago you could buy an official scout harmonica (I still carry one today).  Some scouts play musical instruments and can bring them to camp and use them within reason.  It also is fun at a camp firering.  They may be good enough to play taps or reveille.  Some scouts may only be musically talented to use sticks or a triangle, but jump right in too.  Comfort items of a couple solar lights on the way to the latrine can help.  I place one beside my tent so they know where 911 sleeps.     

As most of my scouts spent their week's worth of scout bucks at the trading post in the first couple of days, I always had a troop snack stash available.  Items were given each morning and they ate or traded them during the day.  If you give snacks at night, you have critter visitors.  Lights sticks of different kinds can be a double edged sword.  They are great fun, but can be opened causing a mess.  They also can be a lot of trash when they expire.  I have a few glow in the dark Frisbees that are good for night capture the flag, or other games.  Most of the time during summer camp, it gets dark so late, the scouts are tuckered out and don't do much after its pitch dark.       

This thread got me thinking of all the red fire buckets (#10 cans) we used to have by each tent at summer camp, and that was summer.  We didn't have any around the campfire, but every tent had two.  In the 70s and 80s, very often on Michigan Klondike derbies or Polar Bear campouts, we used Jon-E handwarmers or solid fuel handwarmers in our pockets to keep warm.  This was long before the shaking hand warmers available now.  I have a few candle lanterns and they work great for backpacking.  I can fit about 3 tea light candles in each one for packing purposes.  One setting out casts a good glow to brighten the mood.  Inside tents is another story,  when its really cold, a heated water bottle in the sleeping bag is all you need all night.  Just make sure lid is secure. 

Having spent a few years in Europe and been to Kandersteg, it is one of the greatest scouting centers I've seen.  First class programs for all, summer or winter, you will have a blast and it will wishing you had more time.  I've been there three times.  You can drive, or take a train with all your gear.  There is also first class skiing and skating in the area.  We had scouts sledding right behind our chalet.  We saw a far-off avalanche and the alps are something to see.  I rank Kandersteg up there with any Philmont experience.  Different programs, but a bucket list item for any scouter.  There are a few staff members that have the patch/neckerchief trading in their blood.  We wore neckerchiefs and they were a big hit.  You can get their woggle and patches in their trading post.  One of the best sources you can use is the Transatlantic Council site, or may try the Black Eagle Lodge of the OA.

After reading this and taking a bit to think it over, I sense your frustration on the entire situation.  This has been building up for some time it seems.  I can relate to much of what you mentioned as I spent 30 years in scout units supported by the military.  Many adults tried to apply military standards and discipline into the troops.  Luckily, there were always a few of us that could reel them in.  We were lucky that way.  With military-supported units, we had turnover of leaders and boys every few years to refresh the unit.  

    If you are going to send this letter, it should be kept at the professional level and not personal towards anyone.  I copy to the unit commissioner, chartered org rep, and committee is not whistleblowing, but each has an interest in the health of the unit and adult leadership assigned.  As a commissioner, I would really take note of this and anytime a leader feels like you do and is not leaving scouting, but leaving a unit is a concern. 

    With your departure, I don't see much change going to happen unless something or someone happens to look into issues.  I think the adult patrol, if there is one of old gray beards and curls, could benefit of a scout-o-rama or camporee where multiple troops are close and they can see how other adult patrols and youth patrols do things.

No easy solution to this problem that has plagued scouting since the beginning.      

Around this time of year is a great time to talk to parents about may come under a Christmas tree.  I always seemed to get a knife every year for many reasons.  I'm sure there are a lot of scouts and scouters that can lend a can opener type for this requirement.  I am not one for loaning knives as someone always wants to pry and break a tip off.  Before parents go out and spend a lot on their scout's first knife, I would caution that most scouts do three things with their first knife: 1.  have to sharpen it regardless whether it is sharp or not; 2. cut themselves.  nuff said; 3. lose the knife somewhere.  There are lot of used Victorinox knives on the big auction site for cheap bids.  The original 4 blade/tool Boy Scout knife made in Ulster or Camillus worked great.  The current BSA 4 blade knife is from China and costs about $20.  Not my recommendation. 

BTW, the orginal blue Cub Scout knife didn't have a can opener, just the spear blade, awl, and bottle opener.   hhhmmm? 

One thing we scouters can do is do some of the personal fitness MB stuff as the scouts do it.  Why not give it a shot, doing what you can within your limit.  I think it is important to be fit as telling the scouts "wait for me" is not a good way to be a "LEADer".

Eagledad, whew thanks!!!  I thought we were all drifting away.

Ok, having read the entire posts on this, and as an Eagle since 1981 I have  a couple of cents to add.  Back in my youth chasing Eagle, there was green BSA uniforms, sex, drugs, and rock and roll.  Heck, I was cub while Vietnam was still a war and we played war with cap guns.  I was probably exposed to too many things that could have turned me off the path, but I just used the experiences to successfully travel to Philmont a couple of times and the Natl Jamboree too.  Back then, we weren't afraid to wear the uniform or neckerchief as you may get stomped by that Boy Scout.  Sometimes we had to be BRAVE to get in the face of someone as we defended scouts.  No angel here, and Eagles aren't always nice to critters of the wild.  The talons (scout skills) and beak (scout spirit) should not be considered a weakness.     

Back to the original question about qualities of an Eagle.  A lot has been said about pregnancy and even EBOR.  Seems there are lot of angels out there that never did anything wrong.  I'm not saying a pregnancy is wrong as it is a normal bodily function that is done as a couple.  I wonder how the "angels" of this thread would throw stones had an abortion been made or made public.  Doesn't scouting work on preparing youth for adulthood as productive citizens?  Maybe we should be thankful for diversity of our youth and troops as this pregnancy question may be a taboo issue in some scout family households. 

At the front of each scouting handbook it talks about abuse, a more harmful thing than a natural act between consenting people.  They should not be considered in the same discussion.  How about we embrace these youth, show how we support everyone, and not condemn them.  I know of scouters that have committed crimes and violate traffic laws several times a day, but they still sit on boards and preach to youth. 

How about one quality of a Eagle is being well rounded and not sheltered from exposure to what life may deal them.  The more exposure to real problems, the better they will be to deal with them as they arise.     

Eagledad, you really didn't state on the bottom of you post it is the adults' fault?  Holy moly has the actions of the individual and group been deflected from the abusers to the SM.  There is no easy way to handle this situation.  One way I consider the impact of this act is the impact on the victim.  Regardless of the way the victim is equipped, the act is one none of us would just accept, or have a spouse treated that way by the group.  If the group is 12-13yrs and they get to decide their corrective actions, will they do it because the adults say so, or because they really see the impact on the victim.  They failed to see the negative impact on the victim at the time of the incident, so now that it is discovered, they are sorry...I don't think so.  Before this gets blown up by the victim and his family, it has to be defined as whether a scout event or not.  If not, the BSA has a lesser role in this.  If an in way affiliated with the BSA, the CO, CC, an troop have a greater role in this.  I tend to lean on you owe more attention to the victim rather than the PLC. 

Ok, probably touch a few nerves on this one.  Need a uniform for each type, probably not.  I have them from commissioner, district committee, and troop positions.  If you don't have additional uniforms, just change loops and may want to go the Velcro position patch and/or numbers change.  Here is where the nerve piece comes in.  Having completed training, the BSA says there is no "class A" uniform, only the official uniform.  The one commonly called "Class B" is just the field shirt option, pants don't change.  With that said, another thread mentioned what do scouters really wear on outings.  Some strictly said they are official uniform (class A) all the time.  I have seen some of these scouters on outings that don't leave a chair, can't hike a trail, or participate with the youth, so it is easy to preserve their official uniform.  For those adults participating with activities, I think there is nothing wrong with a field shirt and what the youth are wearing.  Ever rock climb in the official uniform...impractical.  Tearing up a field shirt should be a good thing if done during activities with youth.

As a two time trekker at Philmont, I will just say what we did on the trail during down times.  A hacky sack is easy to carry, use, and can include everyone.  Philmont even has their name knitted onto some in the past.  The other activity was just a plain Frisbee.  A plate/bowl by chow and Frisbee the rest of the time.  I have three glow in the dark ones I use for day or night use. 

For the correct spelling and admonition, I suggest you talk to someone on the ceremony teams, troop OA Rep, chapter/lodge chief, or any advisor for the right stuff, I've seen it spelled a bunch of ways, said more, and bottom line, the ceremony pamphlet has the info.

Sorry can't give it over this thread.

I see this as more than just a summer camp problem. I think this has been ongoing for some time. I has a scout that only ate poptarts in the morning. This was ok as long as he still paid the same for food, was present at the patrol/camp meal, it did not become a nutritional burden (pooped out at 1pm), and was stored properly (not in a sleeping bag). The alternative to the planned meal of PB&J was always available in our troop as teenagers have this eating switch that is either always on or off. I would love to see the parents bring not only their child the fast food, but enough for everyone. A sit down with the parents teaching them the negative aspects for this action is their scout may be singled out as 'one of them" and not "one of us". The food is not too much the issue as the other scouts may see it (we all have a cache of cnady bar).

I see it as a difference in treatment of scouts. The other parents won't like him or his parents as Johnny's parents cater to him, literally. The other parents seem like bad parents for making their sons eat camp food. This will soon build a fence between the scout and scouts, parents and leaders. A small issue that can have terrible affects on the troop. The parents are not doing the scout a favor for the bottle feeding. Let him experience other ethnic and cultural foods, make his decisions and experience some diversity. Too bad the parents can't see the forest through the trees.

Why this added requirement? Just to prepare them for their eagle project is hogwash. Suppose we (all BSA) had this. Whether "successfully" led or not, he can still check the block. Then what happens if he did a poor job preparing/leading this life project? I would fight this all the way through council. If the life requirements change, I'll fully support them, if not, leave the "required"-leading-a-project to the eagle candidate. I would encourage all life scouts to lead a project before their Eagle Project, before making a star scout do this. Too much, too soon, and not needed as the additional requirement on the trail to eagle. It seems like they are having problems in the leadership development, or leadership issues on projects. This is not your solution to these problems.

Gotta disagree on the courts, police, and probation standpoint. Having a police background, I see it handled as it should for all parties. The eagle is small compared to a conviction. We all did dumb things at 18 or before. We like to enforce the intent of the law not necessarily the letter of the law. Rolling through a stopsign at 4:30AM has a slight risk than the same offense at 4:30PM. With that said, this could have been $20 - $2000. The issue was he stole, then felt sorry (after being caught, not before), and should he be accepted as an Eagle. No, but the courts would probably do the same thing as the troop with sentencing being probation. I've seen robbers get 5 years of probation for holding up a store. It would tie up the courts, police and probably scare the rest of the scouts into thinking what if they do a dumb thing too. I like the thought of the troop keeping the human dimension piece as the "how to handle" solution.

Boy, can this get long. Keeping it short. No everyone deserves to be an Eagle Scout. Usually the rank is an after-affect after scouting and learning. Do we scout for the prestige and rank or skill, values, and citizenship. I think I would let the BOR know of this event after the SM conference took place. I'm interested in how it was paid back (Parents or him, with your money or his). How many youth know, what was his position in the troop. As a board of review member, better it come out there than wait afterward. How it was handled by the youth is my biggest concern. If not caught, what would have been next, an eagle stealing from a scout, troop, school, or parents. In nature, some young eagles never reach maturity, they fall from the nest, fall to predators, or just never have the will to live. Here we are questioning whether scouting's highest award to go to a scout that steals from his scouting family without addressing the need for the money. If for emergency medicine, starving family, or something like that, I could see good intent, poor execution. For personal reasons (too lazy to work for it), my feathers would droop that day.

Was the APL appointed or elected. If elected, how about the mature one being his APL for the camp. If appointed, you may want to ask him whether he feels up to the charge. If he says yes, let him lead. We adults see youth in a different light than youth. Who we want to lead is often not who the youth want to lead. I've seen this many times in OA elections. The leaders like a scout, but he doesn't know how to work with his peer group. Bottom line: If he is APL now and can lead outside of camp, he will learn a lot more with additional responsibility. He also has the support of strong PLs. My experience is the SPL has the most involvement with camp staff for troop info. Let the APL step up, otherwise he'll always think "could I have ...." Leaders don't get to pick their times to serve, good or bad they inherit issues and signs of the time.

Take a break, read some without replyng. I've been a member of this forum for over 4 years and have felt the same way, watch some enforcers bully users, and I only have a few posts compared to some. I pick and choose topics after some forethought. Don't sign off, just sign out for a while.

Don't know who made them. I have two and love both. I use them more for heavy camping. I use garden tools more on light packing camping. Cold steel's would be my first option if I couldn't locate the BSA ones. The BSA were worth the price, unlike many BSA products. If you are going to do some car/truck short distance camping, a small shovel about 2' or more is great. Just don't skimp on quality, a bent, broken, or cheap shovel will make you miserable in the middle of a campout. I've used mine as a skillet, steel with flint for starting a fire, plate, alarm clock (with a fire bucket), talking shovel (like a talking feather) in a pinch, totem, and many other cool stuff.

Some tips. Get an ASM, troop guide, OA Rep, or a new scout mentor to work with the PLC to offer advancement opportunities to 1st Class in the 1st year. The skills in that year to make 1st Class will prepare them for the tougher trail to eagle. Not all 1st year scouts will take it, better to offer it than have a scout say I wish we did that stuff. Don't wait for summer camp or 1st class weekend to get it going. Empower those 1st class and senior to help others as they were helped along the trail. We lose too many to boring campouts and stifling of enthusiasm. I made 1st Class out of fun and adventure and thougt the rank as secondary until I realized you could be daniel boone and earn a badge too. The skills were important, not the advancement. Maybe I was reading too many mountain man novels as a kid..

I know D-A from my days of a youth. I was part of the Blue Water Council. Considering the horses and fishing, I can't tell you another camp I would like. An option is also that a troop that had reservations now have first dibs on that same date or weekend (within reason if dates fall in the week next time) next year. This may help with predictability and keep troops coming back year after year. If a troop wants to switch with another troop, both units have to say "aye" to the council. As Silver Trails Scourt Reservation closed for summer camp, the BW Council now attends D-A. Reopen STSR and lessen the overbooking.

My take is tent or stars. In a building is like sleeping in your home in a sleeping bag. Kinda miss the rocks, sticks, noises, rain, broken zippers, snooring, and inclined sleeping. My recommendation is for each troop to compare their outdoor program to have more than enough camping nights to meet the minimum time required for eligibility. Keep a camping log when they first start, it will come in handy on the trail to eagle.