desertrat77

Renoed, welcome back...I came back to scouting myself a few years ago. Was away for quite awhile. Some things have changed a bit, but the scouting spirit is still alive and well in many parts of our movement. I wish you and your grandson all the best.

If the scouts aren't in full uniform, they should wear whatever pants they wish. Key is the parents' wish for the scouts to wear pants during grubby activities that they don't mind throwing away if need be.

I think we overthink these things, at times....

Concur with the earlier posters...real SEALs don't go around browbeating others with their status. They are calm in the midst of turmoil. Definitely recommend reporting this behavior to district/council and finding another troop.

Eamonn, I understand what you are saying.

The best FOS I've seen is in my present council...they have a special council patch each year that is truly special. Many councils do this but these are superb. I've got this year's on my uniform. I'd rather buy the patch that eat a rubber chicken dinner.

I was an ASM when popcorn first arrived as the BSA fundraiser. Though I had a very long hiatus from scouting due to military duties, I still don't see popcorn and the BSA as a true match. Who wants to pay that much money for popcorn? One silo of popcorn costs about the same as one of those special tins.

The BSA needs better public relations...visibility and reputation.

By the way, got a chuckle out of being considered new to a place where you lived for 25 years...I've been in the Air Force about the same time and have moved 11 times (number 12 coming up), not counting deployments! Your neck of the woods sounds wonderful and some day I hope to achieve the same kind of stability.

You said it best...the UC works for the troop.

As a UC, I assure them I'll do whatever it takes to help them succeed. At my first meeting, when SM introduces me, I explain to the scouts that I'm there to help their troop leaders, which helps their troop.

Every couple months I'll go camping with them. I make sure I wash dishes, make coffee, chop wood, go hiking and generally make myself useful. Shooting the breeze around the campfire beats the perfunctory once-a-month meeting deal.

Went to summer camp for the last two nights of their session.

If they have a question, I run it up the flag pole to the district or council.

I made it clear that they--at the unit level--are the most important leaders in scouting.

Training is important. Listening and being an advocate for their cause is just as critical...if you have to provide constructive feedback, they are more open.

Your focus on the unit is correct...it is very easy to become a district/council creature. Good folks at district and council, but real scouting is happening in the units.

I wish you all the best.

Wow, great posts.

Stosh, I like your post. Our scouts need to be challenged...as I tell my kids when they complain about coaches or teachers who take them to task, "Take it as a compliment, because they care about you. If they didn't care, they'd let you do what you want and you'll never get better."

We aren't doing the scouts any favors by giving them unconditional affirmation. They need to learn feedback can be positive and negative...the negative, properly dispensed, is more valuable than the positive. If we sprinkle everything with sunshine, gosh, it's sure super wonderful peachy keen, but the scouts won't achieve much beyond their self imposed comfort zone.

So if the parents can't see this, we can at least give the scouts a taste of what self reliance really means. It's well worth the time and trouble.

There are folks that can afford these items, or give them as gifts. I can't afford 300 dollars for a book, but it's the perfect item to present a CEO who has financially supported scouting for many years. As long as the "basic" items are reasonably price, I'm not too concerned.

What boggles my mind about the supply catalog is the sheer number of items available, price aside.

Weak troop leadership, and the subsequent chaos, has been a problem for decades. The scouts and BSA's reputation pay the price.

However, there are usually no consequences for lousy troops like the one outlined above. Folks from council on down know the troop is a mess, but no one steps in to lay down the law. So the scouts continue to act like donkeys in public, and their leaders shrug their shoulders "oh well."

It speaks to a larger problem, namely, many parents aren't trying to raise young men...they are content to let their teenager act like he was still five ("Oh my little Johnny is such a good boy!"). So he progresses through his teenage years thinking that his every action is cute, proper, and consequence-free.

And we all know how far this gets Johnny when he goes to college or gets a job where mummy and daddy aren't there to sweep his path.

Scoutldr said it best. Boy scouting is not Webelos III....

But as long as there are no consequences for running an out of control troop, we'll continue to absord negative press.

We UCs must do a better job of dealing frankly and swiftly with toxic troops.

I agree, it's better to shut down a troop than have them embarrass the whole organization.

Mr. OGE, you stated your case in a very princely manner...I wish you all the best.

Codger, very interesting observations! However, I must present myself as an exception. I fit your scout leader criteria to a "t"...but I still attempt to stay in shape. Not with personal trainers and expensive membership at a fitness center. Rather, I run four miles on a public track three/four times a week and knock out my push ups and sit ups on a stretch of asphalt nearby. Refreshment is not a sports drink but cool water from a big red spigot near a ball park.

Am I doing it for me? Well perhaps a little. I don't want to die from something I could have prevented. I don't want to look like a slob in my military (or scout) uniform. Most importantly, I'm doing it for my family...first it's a condition of employment for folks in the military and I don't want to become unemployed, and second, I've seen too many out of shape military folks retire and die a year or two after they go back to civilian life.

Sure you might miss a few dinners, or have to settle for one plate at dinner instead of two...but it's worth it.

My silva BSA compass from the '70s still works fine...you can pick them up on ebay pretty cheap.

I agree with Gunny...much of our BSA compass work can be done with an inexpensive compass. And Gunny, I had to smile when you mentioned your mil surplus lensatic...I have one in the garage and it still glows just fine!

I too noticed the conflict between the photo and the article. Perhaps he will take the opportunity to drop a few lbs now that the obesity issue is front/center.

Mr. Mazzuca has a couple of challenges. One, a person with his job has to attend a bunch of luncheons and banquets each week. We all know that few of these are "healthy heart" events. Two, traveling and sitting in meetings are absolute fitness killers.

On a local level, truthfully, we have alot of obese scouters. Some can still backpack and get outdoors, but it isn't easy for them. Others are sedentary and fine with it. No need to restate all the problems with this, but here's a personal observation: sedentary scouters tend to promote tailgate camping and other events that aren't physically challenging. This results in lackluster events that boys get bored with quickly. Find a troop with fit leaders, and you'll find a physically active troop.

PS I typed the last para with humbleness...as a guy in his late 40s still on active duty, I know how hard I have to push myself to stay physically fit and to present a good image in uniform. It's ain't easy for anyone.

Basketry was the last MB I earned at camp, right before I turned 18. My fellow camp staffers thought it was funny.

Whether the scout earns the MB or not, he should enjoy the freedom of choosing things that interest him. Even if he never goes near the topic again, at least he has a basic appreciation for what it entails.

The Eagle required MBs are important...some are painful but one must press forward with pride...a good preview for adult life!

I'd bring back all the rural MBs...farm design, poultry, rabbit raising, all the crop related badges....

As I travel our great country, I'm struck at how many farms I see.

For urban kids, it would be a good experience to work on a farm, even for a little while.

The old trade MBs (printing, blacksmithing, taxidermy) are worthwhile too.

Post script to my Alaska story: as a summer camp staffer, I recall one week we hosted a troop from the Aleutian Islands. This was very rare as the logistics for this troop to go anywhere were quite involved. Because they could not come to one of pre- or post-summer camp ordeal weekends, we held an ordeal (including the ceremonies) for three of their scouts during their week of camp. There were enough Arrowmen on the small staff to make this happen.

Looking back, the council, lodge and troop leadership had to show alot of flexibility.

Interesting side note: during the ordeal, a couple of us staffers chatted for awhile with one of their scouts who was having hard time falling asleep. Why? He'd never seen trees before. Born and raised on the islands, he was having a difficult time getting used to thick birch forest. He adapted and overcame...it also helped that a) there were no snakes at that camp and b) the sun never set during the summer.

This story may be off point but what the heck, it's typed and maybe it will help.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

It's viable if you are flexible....

I was vice chief of a small lodge in Alaska, many years ago. With people living vast distances apart in the Union's largest state, there was no way we could meet regularly, or do things like a "normal" lodge. If memory serves, we had no chapters. We made the most of the times we got together, like conclave and ordeal weekends. Some folks we only saw once a year, when they came to summer camp.

That said, it was probably the most close-knit lodge I've been in (of four).

1 - Eagle patch

2 - Philmont Arrowhead patch

3 - First summer camp patch

4 - Lifeguard BSA...though I earned this in the late '70s, I was given a previous version of the patch from the '50s...our DE found a stack of the old patches and LBSA cards in the basement of the scout council office, and presented these at scout camp that summer

For emergency absolutely, the gadgets are great. But for one 2 hr meeting a week? They will survive okay without them.

I agree with evmori...no need for the scouts to have them. As far as policy, it's been my experience more options lead to more confusion, and more loopholes for scouts going against the policy.

Silo, welcome!

Eagle92, I won't ask about the shooting incident because you asked me not to, but I sure wish we were all sitting around the fire with a fresh pot of coffee on, sounds like a good one!

NRP1488, thank you for the tip, much appreciated.

BadenP, thank you for sharing this with us and congratulations to the young lady. This is a great example of leadership in action, yours and hers.

There are many other ladies like her that would excel in scouting. I wonder how many walk away, or stay away, because of old style attitudes about what women can/can't do.

Eagle92, good points. Yes, cost is a factor for the hat, I overlooked that. Perhaps there can be a deluxe model, and another that cost less and has more flexibility, or is made of a different material...perhaps "scoutproof" is the word I'm looking for.

While we have to stay on point during training, the syllabus isn't Soviet dogma..."This isn't Russia, is it Danny?" to borrow a line from a great movie.

Two issues: content and presentation style. Three actually: trainer attitude.

The people that are sitting in the chairs aren't dopes. Even if they are new to scouting, they are employees, employers, parents, and they know canned baloney when they hear it. Just because some old timers are are in love with staying strictly with the party line, it doesn't mean that the new people need to buy into it.

The beauty is this: the most wildly successful aspects of scouting are timeliness and appeal to almost everybody. If they are in the syllabus, great. If not, let's add them...as Eagle 92 pointed out, listeners always respond to real world application. And they will welcome the break from plodding along, point by point, slide by slide, hour after hour...when presenters put down the powerpoint clicker and actually talk human to human--it's welcome relief and always well received.

The "dogma" part of my initial adult leader in 1985 was a complete and utter bore. I still recall those days in the church annex, where some old buffoons condescended to us new folks. And yes, I used the "buffoon" word intentionally. They were the bullet-proof Council Old Timers, the Keepers of the Secret Scout Handshake, etc. Though several of us were former scouts, the entire student class was treated like simpletons.

The best part of that training? When we all--cadre and students, escaped the church annex after 2 long weekends of warming metal folding chairs, and went outdoors. The patrols camped, cooked, competed...everyone had good time. Sure ended on a high note.

Post Script: if the new folks think the training is boring, then the burden is on seasoned scouters to change what we do. People aren't bored by Real Scouting. They walk way because life is challenging enough without sitting through dry briefings and enduring the needless debate that we old guys enjoy so much.

The campaign hat is still relevant.

As a scout, I had a cheapo version to wear to/from our trek at Philmont (not on the trail though). It looked good but got wet, out of shape, etc, so it went in the trash eventually.

Haven't felt the need to wear one since. No good reason, just personal taste as I liked keeping the hat clean and level, but couldn't wearing a backpack, etc. As an ASM in the '80s, I wore a boonie hat (uniform police, sorry, the statute of limitations has no doubt expired!) and the troop ball hat. Though not at the same time.

Most glad to hear that others like to wear them, and that scouts respond to them too. Very good news indeed.

If we can bring the campaign hat back to mainstream use, along with full size neckerchiefs, we'd have the foundation for an awesome--and functional--uniform.