David CO

17 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Funny, I had the same sort of feedback when I spoke with our local SE (sorry CEO) after the announcement, he rolled out the term "conditional scouters".  Guess the implication is I was only active and supportive as long as I like the conditions.

Clearly the challenge is conditions have changed.  I did not change it, you did not change it.   Not sure this is all good change management

I think all businesses would like to have some degree of "customer loyalty" or "brand loyalty" in their customers. This is to be expected. Most businesses understand, however, that the customers' loyalty will often change if they raise the price or alter the product.

We teach our boys to be educated and thrifty consumers in regard to all of their other purchases. Why shouldn't we encourage them, and ourselves, to exercise good judgement when purchasing goods and services from BSA?

Of course I am a conditional scouter. Being a careful and thrifty consumer is good thing.

Yes, parents are getting a little bit goofy about graduation ceremonies. They want a graduation ceremony (photo op?) for just about everything now days. We have school graduations at the end of 8th grade and high school. Some other schools systems also have pre-school, kindergarten, and elementary school graduations, with all the pomp and circumstance.

This attitude is carrying over into scouting and sports programs as well. It is a bit much, I think. If we have too many of these graduation and crossover ceremonies, they stop being special to the kids. Then the really important transitions seem less meaningful. 

16 minutes ago, eaglequestions2018 said:

Wouldn't your parents count, as the guidelines technically state that you need to show leadership over any two people, Scout or non-scout, child or adult?

Family scouting?

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Big difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is who runs the program. Cub Scouts is run by adults, Boy Scouts is suppose to be run by the Boy Scouts themselves. If a troop is truly run by the boys, and they do not want girls, are you going to stop them from running their troop they way they want? 

This is a common mistake made by people who take the boy led argument too far. Boy led does not mean that the boys get to make each and every decision. Boys do not make membership policy. 

A scout can choose to join or not to join a unit. He does not get to choose who else can join or cannot join the unit. 

2 hours ago, Cindy121 said:

Magic is a card game kind of lime dungeons and dragons of old.  The gist of a draft is that scouts buy in to play and leave with winnings.  Score more points,  bigger prize at end.  Most leave with token packs of more magic cards.  My town has businesses that run these for profit.  Was hoping for something to stop the payment/profit part of playing a game on a scout outting.

I wouldn't have allowed that at a scout activity. 

I guess it all depends on whether or not you have the authority to stop it. If you do,  go ahead and stop it. You have plenty of justification. If you don't have the authority, then all you can do is tell your kid not to participate.

2 hours ago, Cindy121 said:

I am new to scouting leadership.  A group of parents want to allow the SPL to charge fellow scouts $ to participate in a "Magic Draft" while on a Troop camping outing.  I am very uncomfortable about this on many levels.  One:  Our scouts often can't afford the low price for each event already.  Two:  based on the cost sited, it appears the SPL may be making some money at the event.  Does anyone know by-laws or rules pertaining to this sort of thing within the BSA?  Input on your opinions is also appreciated.

I don't know what a "Magic Draft" is either, but I don't like the sound of it. Is this a fantasy sports thing? Is it gambling?

We don't allow any commercial activity or fund raising of any kind to take place on our property or during our programs without the prior approval of the Chartered Organization. If the CO hasn't approved it, I would forbid it.

3 hours ago, blw2 said:

Maybe at the pack level less "adults doing everything" and more of that independence, discovery, freedom, and adventure at the pack level would train everyone for a better troop experience

Have I got this right? Your son tells you that he wishes boy scouts was more like cub scouts, so you concluded that cub scouts should be more like boy scouts.

My nephew felt the same way as your son. He loved cub scouts. He crossed over to boy scouts, but dropped out of scouting during his first year. He wished boy scouts was more like cub scouts. 

I don't think it would have "prepared" him better if cub scouts had been more like boy scouts. He would have dropped out sooner, as a webelos, instead of dropping out later, as a boy scout. The problem wasn't with preparation. He just doesn't like scouting.

2 hours ago, blw2 said:

Since he's quit, he has mentioned off the cuff to me a few times that he wished scouts was more like cub scouts.

I think he enjoyed showing up for some pre-planned fun.

A lot of scouts (and former scouts) feel this way. 

Quote

• Lot's of applicants have Eagle Scout on their resume. Few have "Troop Guide", fewer still can write a good essay about it. But, those who do will likely stop an admissions officer in his/her tracks.

I don't know. I would be more impressed by a scout who was selected by his peers to fill an elected POR. A lot of times, appointed POR's are given to scouts who couldn't possibly get elected to a POR by the other boys. The boys know them too well. 

This thread is a case in point. Do you think this scout could get elected to a POR?

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:14 AM, gblotter said:

The boy openly admits that as his motivation and says it without shame. 

I have to applaud his openness and honesty. On the other hand, I'm not at all sure that TG of a NSP is the best POR for him. My concern is that he will continue to be open and honest (with the new scouts) about his motivation for taking the position. 

If I were the parent of a new scout, I don't think I would be thrilled about having him mentoring my son.

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 6:43 AM, scoutldr said:

The Pack Committee (including Treasurer) works for the Committee Chair (CC). 

I agree. SammyT should let the CC handle it.

1 hour ago, MattR said:

So I'd say "a fool."

I took my A&P courses in a class loaded with pre-med students. They were hardest grades I ever earned. There's one thing I came away with. The dumbest medical student in the school is still a lot smarter than me.

I later had a similar experience once while having a catch with a Major League baseball player. Until then, I had no idea how hard they throw. Wow!

1 hour ago, SSScout said:

""What do you call the Medical School Graduate with the lowest GPA?

 

 == Doctor"" 

What do you call the Law School graduate with the lowest GPA?  Your Honor.

1 hour ago, blw2 said:

good point!

Professional certifications are among the big offenders in this regard....

CPA's, Architect's, Engineers, Medical professions of all sorts.... require regular CEU's.  Biggest laugh.  Nothing but a money making scam.  In my experience most of these folks end up taking a bunch of stuff that has no interest to them at all, and zero bearing on their actual job....except maybe to help them be more "rounded" as a person arguably.

Yes, CEU's are a joke. Talk about minimal effort! 

Most of my teacher CEU's included neither participation nor testing. You just needed to attend.  Many teachers brought books, magazines, or crossword puzzles with them so they could amuse themselves while ignoring the speakers. 

19 hours ago, fred johnson said:

 I'd suggest to him to chase accomplishments that mean something to him.  If this one doesn't, then he will be wasting his time and energy to earn something that is an empty accomplishment.  

Are you guys trying to tell me that you have never taken a college course, attended a professional seminar, or done boy scout leadership training/YPT just to fulfill a requirement?

I've done lots of that stuff.  I have wasted thousands of hours of my time and spent many thousands of dollars of my money on things that meant nothing to me. As a matter of fact, I have another one coming up this summer. Paper chasing is a normal part of college and professional life. It is an absolute requirement for being a scouter. We all do it. 

I would be a hypocrite if I criticized a boy for paper chasing. 

That said, I do think it is kinda sad that young people are being coached to become so jaded and cynical at such an early age. I would rather that scouting be a time of childhood innocence and fun. The adult stuff should come later. 

7 hours ago, krikkitbot said:

I guess my question would be, if he shows up 3 years after disappearing and asking for project approval, SM conference and EBOR, do you approve it?

If your unit has been keeping him on the rolls for 3 years, then I would say yes. 

A scout unit doesn't have to keep registering an inactive scout any more that a sports team has to keep an inactive player on the team roster. If a scout isn't active, the unit can drop him. There is no rule against a unit dropping an inactive scout.

But if a unit chooses to keep an inactive scout registered with the unit, I think they need to treat him like an active scout. It would be unfair to treat a currently registered scout any other way.

21 hours ago, JustAScoutMom said:

And yet the constitution does refer to well-regulated, and regulations are rules.  We abide by them.  Companies abide by them.  But apparently, we don't want to regulate here regardless of what the constitution says. 

The Bill of Rights was enacted to limit the power of government, not to expand it. The framers did not intend for the Second Amendment to be misinterpreted and misused to expand the scope of governmental interference on the private citizen.

It amazes me that anyone would argue that the Bill of Rights calls for an expansion of the power of government.

2 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

I can't thumbs-up your entire post because I think this thread went a little off the rails on the subject of the OP's motivation for starting the thread (which should virtually never be a subject for discussion, in my opinion, and it always leads to trouble.)  But I think the quote above captures the essence of the issue, and I agree with it.  I think we can, and should, keep the advancement program itself separate from the issue of "local variations" on the program that sometimes make it too "easy," and less often make it more difficult.  Quite often the discussions of advancement in this forum throw the baby out with the bathwater, to coin a phrase.

I totally disagree with you. The vast majority of the comments on this forum are favorable to your point of view. The opposing voices are relatively few.

1 hour ago, MattR said:

While the constitution talks about rights it doesn't talk much about responsibilities.

The constitution does talk about the duties and responsibilities of elected officials.

The Constitution is a blueprint for the federal government. It is not a blueprint for society in general. It does not instruct private citizens in how they should conduct their lives. 

22 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I started this thread to solicit feedback

No, you didn't. You started this thread so you could rant at and insult those who disagree with you. Mission accomplished.

13 hours ago, gblotter said:

How many folks think that eliminating merit badges and rank advancement from the Scouting program would be a good thing? I'm actually not trolling - I'm asking a serious question.

Are you sure you're not trolling? Judging from the responses (and your up arrow) it sounds like you are raising the question just to give yourself, and like minded members, an opportunity to attack it.

52 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

The Latin Scot, you nailed it. How much would discussions change here if we all read your post before starting new threads.

Not one bit. 

Because merit badges and rank advancement are so strongly associated with boy scouting, I think it would be a mistake to eliminate them entirely.  Let boys participate in the advancement program, if they wish to do so, but take all the patches (and other bling) off the uniform. 

Eliminate the COH. They are a boring waste of time.