CricketEagle

From a 3rd generation scouter, my children will likely be the last. Can't get out fast enough. Would not recommend BSA anymore. Spoke to another long term SM today and he feels the same. Once again BSA has created the feeling of jamming down a pre-ordained result for units to deal with. We no longer trust BSA in any form. The concept of separate units or local choice does not ring true. We have dealt with council and national over the years on difficult issues. The result has always been that BSA caves or gets risk adverse when someone threatens lawyers. BSA will put in some polite two fac

I have used both the Northern Tier base and a private outfitter for boundary waters and Quetico. Prices are similar when you dig into it, however the private outfitter may have more options on payments, reducing your troop's financial risk. BSA has set fee schedules largely based on a "crew", so if you have a small crew you in effect pay more. In addition you must up front a lot of money. Having been around to see scouts back out and stick the troop for money this "risk" should be part of the consideration. With the private outfitter we had more options on payments, and most of it wa

Been to both NT and private outfitter. Recommend you look at more than canoes. What I witnessed a few weeks ago was shocking. Scouts with food packs over 80 lbs. One pushing 100. All heading north over agnes portages. Our worst pack started at 50. Went farther, further and more comfortable than some of those NT units. Pricing was equal or better than the scout camp. Terms of payment much better. If you can navigate and have some outdoor skills you have options.

Qas AND Matt Thanks for constructive replies. I am there with you guys. Doing my best to ignore national including thier definition of adventure micromanaged by risk avoidance legal advice. Just keep national and their silly policies out of the way of our youth and we can endure.

Like many here I look far more than I comment. Here is a topic I consider important. How to save BSA. I fear, and am already seeing deeper drop off in adult and youth membership than others want to admit. Often religious and social conservatives gave the most of their time to support BSA events in our district. I have yet to see any well intentioned more liberal persons fill gaps. Sorry to speak in generalities. All our welcome, but the effect has been far fewer people doing the heavy work. And yes a few of those that left are now busy in the new competing organization. It is more than a

To go a little further. Behavior contract often geared towards parents. 1. You will be at events to control your son. Etc

Hate them. But on this world sometimes a necessary evil. Not 100 percent sure what you refer to byour contact? Financial or behavior. Yup every permission slip now has a reminder for scout oath and law. Permission slip also cites cost of weekend camp out and if not paid will be deducted from scout bucks. Big trips and high adventure may elaborate payment and extended notes referencing oath, law and and violation of civil or criminal law. Including parents will be liable when I ship your kid home from 5 states away. Written behavior contract of scouts and associated parents. On

I recommend where ever you stand on this issue that you read the article by Kevin Williamson online by the National Review. He put my thoughts into words very well. This is not leadership.

Bottom line...the fix is in regardless of what we local leaders and chartered organization think. After recent dealings with national and local I firmly believe BSA simply acts only in a manner to avoid short term lawsuits and not consider the long term effects on the organization and individuals. In my opinion this fits the pattern I have observed. The alternative organization looks better each day based on the corporate attitude of BSA alone. Just another unhappy SM.

I will likely drop a dime. Some of the school admin knows myself, the aggressor and the victims. I will remind them of other past issues with the aggressor and parents. The aggressor is a classic small boy with big mouth, however this situation one had physical components as well. One of the out of scout events involved a school sponsored event and an autistic youth. The scouts are all privately hoping some of the other boys from a rougher school do the work for them. It will not do much, except to make the school aware and keep an eye out for some of the youth I can help. This one I hav

All, Our troop went through a bad experience, made far worse by the unprofessional work of our council and national. I am curious to see if anyone else has had similar experiences. Long story made short: sneaky now former scout was the prime aggressor in a bullying incident. That now former scout made very exaggerated counter claims to cover himself. Parents of said scout wrote letter to council which was forwarded onto national triggering an incident investigation. Before you all jump to conclusions: All BSA and our charter org rules were followed. We had all ready forwarded a

AZMike and Others. Regardless of the harsh and at times dismissive comments you are receiving, I wanted to thank you for your time that you are taking to present your side of this discussion and the moral compass that guides you and many others. An open discussion here is most important Some of the responses here have been on the “un scout like sideâ€Â

I am trying to put together two crews for 2015. I recieved the promotional pack from NT, but was it was a let down. Looks as if all of BSA promotional budget goes to Philmont and WVA. None of the packets to justice to the true wilderness experience that northern tier provides. It was a real shame. So I am putting to together some power points and videos etc based on things off the internet. In my opinion NT offers the best "wilderness" experience for the money. Flexable schedules also. I remember as a youth going four days with only seeing two other canoes at a distance in the midst of

Calico, beg to differ...but having had this discussion with a few upset scouts the other week...they absolutely mean "gay" in full sexual context. Not gay as in odd, strange. The situation was a "school" event and the offenders were deliberate enough to use a food item as a prop. School yard bully. This was even at a religous based school. In the MTV world we live in, the average 10 year old knows the difference. From my perspective, many people appear to think this is a step in saving BSA from declining numbers. Trying to be "acceptable" to everyone. IMHO - In trying to be

Took a quick look round at the nearest 20 troops/crews. Half are LDS or Catholic, with a few Baptist on top of that. 13 out of 20 chartered orgs will likely be disturbed by this if not more. I see the first effect that the Catholics will be less likely to attend district or council events, just like the LDS units. These are generally the more healthy units. The school based units are dying or dead. Another nail in the coffin of a failing semi-rural council. Soon to be absorbed by the neighboring big city council. BSA would be wiser to stay with the "don't ask, don't policy", wh

SMT224, I think you are Off topic, but I beg to differ. A recent review of a case in the perversion files reminded me of an 80's Ohio/Wyoming case that would come close to fitting the description you mentioned. I had forgotten about it until I read the file. Even those who pray to God can still have a wandering eye and heart. I remember a few of those also. 4F may just offer another excuse for an abuser to act. Having had some time in the service, I have seen crazy things happen at 4F and 115F. No I do not ask anyone coming in the door if they are gay, nor do I intend on.

Time to start putting together an effective protest. Something like this should not be left to a handful of people at the national level. Regardless of what side you are on. Like Roe V Wade being decided by a handful of judges. Time to start over whelming the local and national council folks with an organized protest. This should be a national scouting referendum, regardless of what the charter says the national can do to it's bylaws

My personal opinion: National is chasing money that was never going to come to us anyway. Trying to chase local funds like United Way. Time to look and see if American Heritage Girls is considering helping form "American Heritage Scouts". My charter org would very strongly consider this now.

Merlyn, Yes....and like any another, he would be free to form his own organization.

"If there are required duties, list them. If there are none, then how can coming back with an empty list be unacceptable?" Sounds like a participate award to me. Not like something earn and that speaks of character

My appologies to OGE...I am going repost part of what I put on another thread. This stinks of corporate lawyer mentality. Push the decision and $ responsibility down to the Chartered orgs who do not have the pockets to fight this fight. My religous charter org would have a fit, and so would I. It is all about money. Corporate/national BSA can then throw up it's hands and say, "it is not us, it is them". (I doubt this will help them get any of that money back lost by losing sponsors) Before people start throwing stones at me, the time my unit spends recruiting those that don't fit in

Let the exodus begin, another step in the distruction of morality. My Charter Org would have a fit and specifically forbids it. So would I. I note the phrasing is "discussing". I suspect this all PR trying to show how compasionate we are after the screw ups on the "files". Stinks of dodging lawsuits, push all the responsibility down to the local councils and Charter orgs which do not have the money to fight this fight.

I have the Goal Zero model that was referenced on the REI link. I can report good success charging multiple phones during sunny weather during the day. However, I do leave home with the battery pack fully charged so I am ahead of the game. It is bulky, but fairly light. The batterys are heavier than the unit.

I had to add some more. The whole series is presented without context. Yes there were a few very bad people that slipped through the system. Yes maybe more could have been done. However, the entire series ignores the millions of scouts that had a good experience and the hundreds of thousands of good adults. A bad situation that has been reduced to trash TV ratings.

Here they are running it as a series on the TV news. Late night. I have been watching it to prep myself for an possible questions. I cringe while watching it. I already have a "time to tell" on the troop schedule. While it is a very serious subject, they are "staging" scenes that make the whole series look like a some of those "ambulance chaser" commercials. Staged events of a dozen "overly serious" people sitting around a conference table pouring through records. I went through about 10 cases in my council as a youth and my current area. One brutal one was in the batch. In that