CricketEagle

Basement, I can only guess by the tone of your posting that you did not read, or did not get the intent of my original posting. To be direct, you don't know me, it sounds as if you are comparing me to some bad experiences you may have had. I am not looking for an "Opt Out", but at most a "Test-Out". I am willing to stand up and prove that I have the skills. If I could even find the course time that I could work around my schedule and 2 unit schedules I would. Also, keep in mind I have some bigger fish to fry at the moment with involvement in two units and simply trying to stay emp

Eagle92, Thanks, That was good information. It looks as if a formal "TEST-out" option is in the works. It at least is a reasonable solution.

Fred, no offense taken. I live in a council and district that has a little reputation of adding there own "special" twists on national rules. That is why I am hoping someone could quote the sources. As far as I see, there is nothing from National about this effecting rechartering. That was my more urgent concern. Has anyone seen anything like this? Again I am pro-training. I do it all the time for work. Many times I have to repeat the same training 3 and 4 + times a year as I enter different client's facilities. But I will be the first first to tell you you can only drink

Fred, I don't want this discussion to become comments on skill training versus training in the "patrol method". I am all for the patrol method as long as the adults provided proper coaching to the youths. We all could go on and on on that topic. Eagle92's answer I fully understand seeing many other adults. However, not allowing some sort of test out is like teaching to the "lowest" common denominator. That is a good way to burn out adults. JayK's answer was more of what I was hoping to see. Some training sources quoted. Anymore out there with similar info?

Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills Versus Wilderness First Aid: Please read my whole posting: I am hoping that I can receive some thoughtful, clear responses. There was a very similar posting recently. I am more concerned with the effect on re-chartering and meaningful training. In looking over the newer Scoutmaster requirements, I am seeing some councils requiring the Intro to Outdoor Leadership skills class. I also had seen a few that even appear to go so far to say that you may not be allowed to re-charter without this. My time is valuable. I can clearly understan

I am in a similiar situation. Except I have multiple sons in on the Troop and Pack level. I am a den leader in the pack and a ASM in the troop. Someday your son will fully understand and appreciate what you have done...but I completely understand as the boys get older not wanting to be a leaders son. The trick that at least three sets of parents in our troop level use is to pick events to "Not show up at". ie the leader/parent does not show up, so the leader's son gets a chance to be just another one of the boys. In other words, let them goof off and screw up sometimes. It help

Wow, part of me is surprised by this series of posts, saddly part of me is not. Ultimately there are boys being cheated of a good experience. I shame as Wilderness Survival is good starter MB. 1. Young starting scouts being cheated out of earning a merit badge the correct way...BUT more importantly missing out on the life skill of reading the tasks and working through the list. It sounds silly, but I know many adults who can't handle that. 2. Young 14 year old MB councilors...believe it or not, I think many younger scouts could properly do teach the Wilderness Survival MB...Prov

Wow, has this posting really gone off track. The original topic has more to do with adults saying "cannots" and taking boy led to an extreme. (That is without given the boys support and the chance on smaller tasks first.) Obviously this topic is a hot one and brings up strong reactions from many. Maybe we should close the discussion and open another one based simply on the methods of scouting? Although, I bet if I look around some I would find that topic over and over.

BP, yes I caught the humor in OGE's comments. At least he left out any sens-o-ring jokes. However I am not sure you caught how young a group we have. OGE is correct that many of these youths are used to having everything handed to them. That will not change overnight and having what few "older" boys teach the younger boys the basic "brownsea skills" is the starting point that has been chosen. That is the small events we have chosen for the older boys to work at organizing. Keep in mind even our older boys are still quite young. 13's for most. It is a start. Now back to the original p

BP, your definition of guidance and mine are the same. It is the same methods I use in scouts and at work. I rarely even say much during the troop meetings. I speak mostly to the SPL and PL's before and after meetings. Word of encouragement, what went well etc. Trying only step in when there a behavior problem the old boys can't quite handle. To that end both the old and younger boys need to know that there are adults that support them on doing the "big" things. Not right way hit them up with a list of "cannots", but rather present things a list of smaller tasks they can chip away at.

Eamonn, I am not sure how you guys got an issue of trust out of this. I have had more than my share of outmeal over and over and ramen noodles. I trust that the boys can do more "physically" than most people give them credit for. (given the proper training and support). I also trust that can plan run things better than most people give them credit for. (again given proper training and support). as I wrote to OGE. "PART of the dull program was an over emphasis on having the boys plan with out guidance or inspiration. The "cannot do" elements also squashed some of the in

Eadgledad, I am not sure if you a writing to me, or to the posters in the forum as a whole. As this posting is way off topic. On the boy led level: Keep in mind I am part of a very young troop. Yes we have 2 boys going to NYLT this summer as we did last year (only one bothered to show up). However, when they got back to the troop, to my knowledge no major effort was done to include them in planning. To that end, the adult leadership did not work much with those boys and teach them planning. (we had our own leadership crisis at the same time). So we need to back up and start over. Some of

Old Grey and Basement: It sounds as if I not explained myself well on this: Two issues here (competing forces): Boy Led (but adult guided): The boys have not had that "Intermeaditate" step of seeing an adult or older scout plan something from start to finish. They are still in the stage of needing someone to shell out a program to teach them leadership skills. Our troop is current very heavy on the younger scouts. Very few older boys. In the new fancy scout language they are still in the E and D phases of teaching them "planning". (Explain and Demonstrate of EDGE, with some guiding

Basementdweller, I am with you. Although I would like to include the boys in "SOME" aspects of the planning, it often is above thier skill levels. Yes, I am struggling with a committee member who thinks a boy led troop means that boys should do the majority of the planning. I am from the school that the adults set up the program, and then let the boys lead individual tasks. Otherwise nothing gets done. Herding cats is the best phrase. Again when they get to the higher ranks, I expect them to be able to do more of the planning like gathering costs, some of the communication. (I would expec

Beavah nailed it regarding the regulations. The cross references in BSA and all the various sources cited make my head spin. I deal with government regulations each day (OSHA, MSHA, multiple states, and a slew of companies). I can usually find the answer to questions in those regulations fairly fast. I am a by the book person when it comes to safety, but that book better be clearly written and make sense. (Note here, I will admit that you would be amazed at the stupid things adults do to violate safety rules on a daily basis) But in my mostly rural council, just try and find a paddl

Fscouter said: "Every program "rule" item you listed did not come from Scouting. Misguided and misinformed adults abound. You separate truth from misinformation by asking for the written documentaion that supports the statement" Twocubdad said" "Your standard response to this stuff needs to be, "can you show me where that policy is written?"" Thanks, and yes I have gone that route before with some success. But it is exhausting to prove that a imaginary "rule" does not exist. I have often discovered that the people "quoting" rules never actually read them. It is often a contr

New program issues Hi all, I am a modestly older Eagle who recently joined a troop as my son progresses through the program. My family has been involved in scouting on and off since the 1940s. I openly admit I come from the perspective of the old school. I am trying to play by the new program rules, but at times things parts of it leave me flabbergasted. I have been struggling with aspects of the new program, or often newer leaders interpretations of rules and guidelines: I have observed what I call the YOU CANT DO THAT ATTIDUDE of some adults in the program. I dont thi

Thank you to my old scout leaders! As a newbee to this forum, let me start by thanking my old scout leaders when I was a boy. They made all the difference. Thank You to my parents and grandparents: who let me go on trips, get, wet, dirty, bug bitten, sun burned and tired. Thank You to my old Scoutleaders: who set up a program that I can only now appreciate and admire. They made all the difference. The program they set up years ago produced a lot of good young men and more than their fair share of Eagles. Only now can I understand the time they put in all of us. They produced a