cliffgolden

>>>>>>>>>>

Well, if you had a written rule, no F bombs on a campout the conspirator would be correct. If the Troop instead handles things on a case by case basis, then the above is ok.

>>>>>>>>>>

Well said.

Written rules can bind us to specified consequences without taking into account the circumstances of the situation.

Some troops create a new rule every time they encounter a problem. It usually doesn't solve the problem. This is the same mindset that creates zero tolerence policies in school districts.

It's better to evaluate each situation on a case by case basis and then apply judgement. The leader then takes responsibility for whatever decision he makes.

It's too easy to hide behind rules instead of taking responsibility for our decisions.

No matter how many rules we make we cannot envision every possible scenario. Circumstances play an important role in determining how to react to each situation.

Making judgements include taking into account all the circumstances of a particular situation.

Fairness isn't treating everyone the same. I would expect more from an older boy than a new Scout. Each boy is different. Fairness does not usually manifest itself as an absolute rule.

cliffgolden

On the subject of foul language, I remember a backpacking trip once.

I had always impressed upon the older boys in particular that they needed to set a good example for the younger boys, so they always needed to watch their language. Also we needed to present a good image of Scouting to the community. They always abided and didn't use bad language.

We were backpacking deep within the Cloud Peak Wilderness of Wyoming where moose are more plentiful than people. The language was getting pretty bad and I decided I needed to talk with them about it.

During this discussion they responded that there weren't any younger boys around, in fact no one's around, it's wilderness, so what does it matter?

I countered that it's about being a Scout, the 11th point of the Scout Law, it's part of who we are. Who you are, is what you do when nobody's looking.

One boy challenged me by asking; "So if we swear, are you saying you no longer respect us as Scouts?"

I took a minute to think about my answer, then responded, "No, it means that if you don't swear, I'll respect you that much more."

That was the end of the discussion, and the end of the swearing.

We went on to have a fantastic trip.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

I don't like a lot of rules. I work at a university so I deal with bureaucracy every day. I don't want a lot of bureaucracy weighing down our troop's program.

I wrote something about troop by-laws in regard to discipline several years ago. Rather than repeat it, I'll offer you this link...

http://usscouts.org/boyscouts/discipline.html

I think the Scout Oath and Scout Law are great sources of guidance, for Scouts and leaders alike.

The Scout Handbook is a remarkable book filled with valuable information for Scouts. Much of what they need to know is there.

Other things they need to know they will discover in time as they continue through the Scouting program. Scouting is about guided discovery.

I prefer guided discovery to by-laws or a book of rules to memorize.

I don't have a lot of rules. I really don't like rules that much. I try to respond to situations in a way that conforms to the ideals of Scouting as related through the Oath and Law.

I try my best to instill that same notion within my Scouts. In their lives they will encounter things not covered in any rulebook. They need to learn to use their own internal source of right and wrong to guide themselves toward the best decisions and conduct.

That's part of developing character and fitness and citizenship. They learn to recognize what's right and do it, not because it's a rule, but because that's they way they've chosen to live their lives.

I think that's what Scouting is all about.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

Hi Ozemu,

I agree with Bob White, you need to have more faith in your Scouts. I think they will suprise you.

If they have a hard time getting started, they may want some ideas, just to prime the pump.

You might look at what other troops do and have some things available to share with them.

Be very careful not to be forcing anything on them. Step back, take a deep breath, and let the plan come from them.

Our troop calendar is at...

http://www.geocities.com/cliffgolden/calendar05.html

That calendar was planned at our Patrol Leaders Retreat by our boys. There are a few weekends where they still need to detail exactly what we're doing a little better. They'll get there.

You'll notice a couple of bowling parties, etc. Those aren't bad activities if they're properly balanced with other outdoor activities.

A little dessert is O.K. after a meal of meat and potatoes. It's all about good balance.

Good luck to you and your boys.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

I think the troop should have the final say in who participates in "any given activity".

We have a Patrol Leaders Retreat so the boys can plan their program, not all Scouts are allowed to attend. Too many adults might unduly influence the boys. We want the boys' plan, not the parents' plan.

I think any restriction of activities should be done for a valid reason. Jamborees, High Adventure, Patrol Leaders Council Retreats, etc.

That should be up to the troop to make that decision based on the individual activity in question, and sometimes the adults in question.

If you have an alcoholic parent with a history of drug abuse and violence, I think you might want to restrict his participation on any given activity.

We want to keep the program as open as possible, even Order of the Arrow ceremonies. But still, I feel the unit has the right to restrict participation on any given activity if they feel they have just cause to do so.

Scouting should be a safe haven for boys. Sometimes open doors aren't condusive for creating safe havens. Sometimes there might be valid reasons for keeping the door closed.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

From the Guide to Safe Scouting:

"All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders."

This is true to a point.

If a parent arrived at an activity intoxicated, I would certainly ask him to leave. If he/she were abusive toward boys, that parent would not be allowed on our troop activities. There are certainly exceptions to the rule.

A parent has the right to spend time with their child, but they don't have the right to spend time with other people's children. When you allow parents on activities, you are also providing them access to other people's children.

Units have the responsibility to select adult leaders. Not every parent might be appropriate as a leader. I think parents should generally be welcomed into the troop, and most often they could be invited to be leader, but there may be some exceptions.

Jamboree contingents consist of 36 youth and 4 adults. Not every adult who wants to attend a Jamboree troop with his/her son is allowed to go. Sure they can visit the Jamboree, but only on certain days. Philmont Scout Ranch also has limits to the number of adults allowed in a crew; there must be a majority of Scouts involved. Not all parents will qualify for the trail. Those events are conducted under national policies.

So it would seem that it is within national guidelines for a troop to restrict the number of adults on activities, since adult participation is restricted on nationally sponsored events and activities.

Boy Scout troops are for boys. Adults are there to serve as leaders, not as parents. Adults should be working for the good of all boys, not just their sons. I feel it is entirely appropriate for units to limit the number of adults on any given activity.

High adventure is one more aspect where some adults might not qualify for participation. Some parents might not have the physical ability or skills necessary to participate in some advanced activities.

If you are overburdened with too many adults, one way to limit adult participation might be to allow only registered trained adult leaders on activities. It would still be open to parents, if they are willing to make the necessary commitment of time and effort to become registered and commplete the appropriate training.

Generally speaking, I think we want to be as open as possible to parents, but don't abandon quality control when selecting leaders. That certainly impacts the safety and quality of your program.

Basically it comes down to common sense. You do what best serves the boys. Do what works best for your troop.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

I believe one of the strengths of Scouting is that it provides some flexibility. Chartered Partners often use Scouting as an outreach to the community. Scouting provides some lattitude in how their program is delivered.

Sometimes it can lead to problems when the individual troop takes things to an extreme.

In the examples you provide,

1) How the Uniform method is implemented will vary between troops. The BSA does have certain rules, and as long as you are not violating those rules, you are OK. I don't agree with the troop in the example you've cited, but that's only my opinion. Each troop can have its own opinion.

2) Scrap books and pictures as a measure of Scout Spirit I think is a little far fetched. I would think that case could be appealed to National and possibly won. However, Scout Spirit is difficult to nail down. They allow a lot of wriggle room.

3) Here I think the troop is absolutely wrong. Finishing merit badges within a year is adding requirements, and is clearly against national policy. Troops cannot change national policy.

From the National Council's "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures WW330880" it reads...

"No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirements."

Adding a 12-month time limit for completion of merit badges is doing just that, adding another requirement.

As for the rest...

"What's good and what's bad about having troops run things certain ways, specific to their program?"

I think having different troops operating in slightly different ways is a definate plus. Assuming a town has several troops, it gives Webelos a variety of programs to choose from. They can join the troop whose program provides the best fit.

We're all providing Scouting experiences and hopefully following BSA rules and using the same eight methods. How we implement the program can provide variety. One troop might be perfect for little Johnny, while another approach might be better for his friend Jimmie. They can each join a troop that best fits their needs.

It's a little like the NFL. Every team has its own philosophy and strategies, while still playing the same game with the same rules.

Individualism of Units can provide variety and choice. The downside is that sometimes it can lead to poor choices and bad practices. Troops that abuse their freedom with bad policies often suffer from their poor choices as the Boys choose to vote with their feet.

Better run troops usually attract and retain more boys. Poorly run programs often lose boys and either change or fade away.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

High Adventure is more rigorous than regular Scouting activities and may require some qualifying restrictions.

For trips that are considered strenuous or trips that require advanced skills, we ask all participants to attend special training events for physical conditioning and/or skills development. This would apply to all participants, youth and adult.

It is important for all members of the group to have the necessary skills and physical ability to safely complete the high adventure.

If grandpa can successfully accomplish those training requirements, then I'd welcome him to the group. If not, then I would explain to him why this trip is not for him.

It's for the boys. Adults are there to enable and support the Scouts on the trip. If adults are impairing the program or placing an undo burden on the boys, then it's not appropriate for them to participate.

If he's not qualified, I would inform him of that as kindly and diplomatically as possible. Respect his desire to help, and counsel him in other ways he can help the troop.

If he does qualify, let him go.

I also believe that high adventure should be about a group of boys, rather than a group of adults with boys tagging along. In our troop we ask that any high adventure group have a majority of youth participants. Philmont has similar requirements.

Good luck to you.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

Our district used CITO day in conjunction with the Spring Camporee.

Kishwaukee District held their Spring Camporee this past weekend, April 15-17 at Three Fires Scout Ranch near Rochelle, Illinois.

The program was "geo-caching". Our Camporee dates coincided with the 3rd Annual International CITO Day. http://www.cacheintrashout.org/

The district assembled 24 gps units, one for each patrol to use.

Patrols spent the day searching for 100 caches (many film cannister size), hidden on 536 acres of scattered woodland, marshland, and grass meadows. Patrols were also given garbage bags to use for carrying out trash.

The top Patrols were awarded a Garmin e-Trex GPS unit for their troop.

One of our patrols won 1st Place for finding the most caches, with another patrol recovering the most trash.

The top cache patrol temporarily renamed themselves the "Cache Crashers Patrol" with new patrol flag and custom t-shirts for each Scout.

The top trash patrol was the "Eagle Patrol", which

besides finding caches, also dragged out of the woods; three tires, a carseat, and five bags of trash.

I was very proud of each patrol.

It was a fantastic weekend; fun, educational, great weather, good team building, plus we now have a brand new Garmin e-Trex GPS for our troop.

Try incorporating CITA into a district event.

It was great fun!

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

I live in a city of about 40,000.

I submit articles to the local papers. They have been very cooperative in printing them. We just had a full-page article on our winter activities published Easter Sunday March 27th. We had 5 full-page stories last year. You can link to them at...

www.troop33dekalb.org

It's good to have positive press in the paper for the general public to read. Also it's great for our Scouts and parents, alumni, and our sponsor to read about what we do.

Newspapers are businesses. If you can provide them free copy and photos, it to their benefit to use them if they are newsworthy.

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

>>>>>>>>>

Hi Cliff! I will try to look up your article! Is it on line?

>>>>>>>>>

Sorry John, I haven't been monitoring this forum or I would have responded sooner.

No, they don't have their articles online.

The article was from our 2003 southwest trip in Utah-Nevada-Arizona and Mexico, not last summer's trip where we met you. Most of the article was about Mexico and our misadventures there, i.e. lost wallet, kayaking into a school of jellyfish, medical emergency, fun at a military checkpoint, etc., etc.

I will be looking for your article on the mountain rescue.

I agree it's good to work with editing. I had an experience with Boys Life on a snowshoe trip about 5 years ago where we requested they kill a story rather than print it.

I wish I had offered to do some editing instead. The story had major incongruities.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

I must echo John's sentiments.

I do love Philmont, I really do...

...but, at Philmont you choose your itinerary from a book, they do all the logistical planning; routing, water sources, menu planning, equipment, etc., etc. for you.

It is a canned program.

It's a little like painting by number. You do their predetermined design and don't dare go outside the lines.

For a troop that has very little experience and wants something safe, maybe it's a good way to go. Philmont provides a great safety net.

If you want to be more adventurous, think outside the box, learn to plan and develop your own ideas and high adventure programs, then you should do your own program as John suggests.

The boys learn much more, and at a significantly lower price. Most of the high adventures my troop has done have been self-planned, using experts here and there as needed.

BTW John, we had a great time while visiting you this summer. The boys loved it! Thanks for all your help and support.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

Our Hawaii trip took place in June 2004 and lasted 11 days at a cost of $1150 inclusive of all expenses. The boys only needed souvenir money, everything else was included.

We flew out of Chicago via ATA (America Trans Air) stopping briefly in San Fransisco going out and L.A. coming back.

We stayed at a military housing community center for 3 nights, Camp Pupakea 2 nights, and Camp Mahulia 3 nights, a hotel in Waikiki 1 night, and our last night on the airplane.

Camp Pupakea (Aloha Council BSA)

http://www.alohacouncilbsa.org/

Camp Mahulia (Maui County Council BSA)

http://www.mauibsa.org/

The boys wanted to visit two islands and chose Oahu and Maui.

Our budget/person, roughly off the top of my head...

607.00 Airfare Chicago-Hawaii

146.00 Airfare Oahu-Maui

107.00 Rental cars, fuel, parking

80.00 Lodging

140.00 Food

70.00 Activities

--------

1150.00 Total per/person

Our activities mostly included ocean beaches and hiking, which are free. We were careful with our activity costs. Our food budget used a combination of restaurant and self prepared meals.

One of the Hawaiian troops we worked with was Troop 664. Here is a link to their website.

http://mysite.verizon.net/resntc87/

There are some photos of our visit with them and an additional link with my description of our trip. They were a fantastic group of Scouts to work with! They treated us to a fantastic traditional Luau.

Also troop 189 of Honolulu hosted us at their community center and one of their Eagle Scouts acted as our tour guide for a couple days, teaching us to surf at a beach.

We had a fantastic experience Scouting in paradise!!!

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

At our troop meeting last night the boys suggested cancelling our spring trip to Florida and use the money instead for the tsunami disaster.

I suggested that we keep our Florida trip intact and maybe consider some additional action to help the tsunami victims. There will be needs in both places for quite some time.

Talking to a person in Florida, he says much of the private damage has been repaired, but many public areas still need to be cleaned up. We plan to buddy up with a Florida unit to help clean up a public area.

Southeast Asia mostly needs dollars at this point. Does anyone have any clever ideas for raising funds for tsunami relief?

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

We approach merit badges in a variety of ways. Summer camp is one option open to boys.

We also attend a couple MB universities each year.

We usually don't do MBs at troop meetings, we mostly do activity planning, etc., but maybe we'll do a couple MB classes per year.

We have some merit badge opportunities at campouts a couple times per year.

We also have boys earn MBs through individual counseling from a list of approved counselors.

High adventure does not usually involve advancement work, neither do most camping trips. Much of our program doesn't involve getting badges. Advancement is just one of the 8 methods. We try to keep things balanced.

Each boy has to set his own goals and work at his own pace. Some are eager and willing to get on the phone and make appointments, others are less ambitious.

We try to impress upon boys that they manage their advancement careers and the troop will provide support and opportunity. They need to choose whether or not they pursue those opportunities. We don't want to be a conveyor belt in an advancement mill.

Some boys earn Eagle by age 13, more earn it at age 17, with many never getting past Life.

Our goal is to foster Citizenship, Character and Fitness within boys as they become young men.

Our job isn't to make Eagles, each boy chooses to seek it and earn it, or not. It has to be their goal, not our's.

The value of merit badges is determined by what a boy gets out of it, and that is directly proportional to what he puts into it.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

We have a PLC Retreat twice for planning purposes.

The first is for high adventure planning, the second for the regular weekend programs.

We survey what the boys are interested in and have each patrol do their own planning conferences.

At the troop PLC retreat each patrol leader should have a plan of what his patrol proposes for the year.

Like others have mentioned, we have a catalog of past high adventure trips, we use a proposal form so anyone can propose a trip, and the boys discuss and hash out their ideas to come to some form of concensus.

We usually do a couple high adventures each year and have a few mini-tours (which are more than a weekend, but less than a full high adventure program).

We tend to do a lot of troop sponsored programs which become much less expensive than national bases or council sponsored programs.

Here are some high adventures we've done in the past...

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/9857/trip_reports.htm

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

cliffgolden writes:

You admit there is no legal fight here.

Merlyn responds:

"No, I haven't. While not an obvious win like removing public schools as chartering orgs, I think there are some arguments that might win. From what some United Ways have said, some BSA councils don't have separate bank accounts for their traditional program vs. their L4L programs; that's an argument against any public funding of L4L."

--end quote--

I can't comment on the office practices of some BSA councils. There are indeed some that leave much to be desired. These reports sound rather spotty and sketchy though. Even if there is a concern over a few specific councils, the program is nationwide.

Merlyn writes:

"Also, the name "Boy Scouts" is already closely associated with discrimination against gays and atheists, which makes it a problem for public schools to use "Learning for Life" if "Boy Scouts" is mentioned in any of the material..."

--snip-- Merlyn continues...

"The Boy Scouts are too vocal about constantly stating how gays and atheists are not welcome, so it shouldn't be too surprising that people can assume their L4L program is equally bigoted."

--end quote--

I would have to disagree with this point. The BSA has been relatively quiet on the subject. It has been the media that has hyped this issue with the public. The BSA comments have been fairly limited and brief.

Visit the Learning for Life website...

http://www.learning-for-life.org/

I don't see anywhere on the L4L page that mentions the Boy Scouts, its logo, and all the copyrights are registered to Learning for Life.

I doubt many people would associate Learning for Life with the BSA, unless they already knew in advance.

If people make assumptions about the program without first checking the facts, I don't see that as the BSA's responsibility.

I wouldn't make any predictions about the future when the courts are involved. If there is the possibility of litigation as you suggest, time can only tell us if you are correct.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

Merlyn writes...

"I'd tell them to get lost. They have no ethics to teach."

You have a right to your opinion. That's all it is though, an opinion. One which most would view as harsh and unjust.

You admit there is no legal fight here. That was my concern. Your crusade against the BSA is based on your perceived violations of Constitutional rights.

Public funding toward the Learning for Life program is legal.

The BSA exists to provide a positive program for youth that includes a belief in a supreme being. Its primary purpose is not to discriminate against atheists. They provide an alternative program called Learning for Life that's open to atheists.

Using your logic, would you see public funding of bicycle racks as discrimination against quadraplegics?

Despite your unhappy views, Happy New Year to you Merlyn.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

Merlyn said...

"Learning for Life teaching ethics to atheist students while being a wholly-owned subsidiary of an organization that denigrates atheists, etc, etc are still problems even after all government chartered BSA units are gone."

I understand your points about government agencies sponsoring BSA units, but Learning for Life as a program does not discriminate, so what is your problem with it?

Do you see a legal issue somewhere here?

I just don't see your point.

Even when the BSA creates a non-discriminatory program open to atheists, you're still not satisfied. What are you attacking?

I'm sorry, I can understand some points in your other arguments, but not this one.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

>>>>>Merlyn writes

I didn't ask you to "relate", I asked you how good a youth program would have to be in order for you to turn a blind eye to blatant discrimination against Jews.

>>>>>

If a Catholic Chapel on a military base offered a youth program for the children of their parish, I would have no problem with that.

Although it wouldn't be serving Jewish children, or Protestant children for that matter, I wouldn't view it necessarily as discrimination against anyone.

I would see it as serving the needs of a specific group.

If a school wanted to sponsor a gay rights group only open to gays or an atheist club only open to atheists, I wouldn't be bothered by that either.

Why are some people so intolerant of a group of heterosexuals that believe in God.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

>>>>>cliffgolden writes:

If those weren't your only two choices, what would you rather do?

>>>>>

>>>>>Merlyn writes

Realistically, the two choices are more along the lines of the BSA either dropping their discriminatory membership requirements, or losing all government sponsorship. I'd prefer the former, but it may well end up being the latter. Since the BSA isn't changing, it's time to go after the government sponsorship using legal action, since the government can't practice such discrimination.

>>>>>

You are not asking the BSA to stop discriminating, as much as you are asking them to abandon their beliefs.

Churches sponsor most Scout units, if the BSA changed their membership policies for traditional units, they would be betraying most of their sponsors.

Rather than abandon those they already serve they expanded into a new program with LFL to embrace those with other views. It doesn't sound like you want to be embraced.

>>>>>cliffgolden writes

I don't know of any public schools sponsoring units in my local area. PTA's used to, but not anymore.

>>>>>

>>>>>Merlyn writes

Where are you located? I've found public school charters in all 50 states; see http://www.scoutingforall.org/packtroop if you want to look it up yourself.

>>>>>

I live in DeKalb, Illinois as my signature indicates. I checked the website you suggested and DeKalb has no units on the list.

>>>>>Merlyn writes

As I explained to OGE, I don't think the current BSA offers anything worthwhile to atheist youth. It would be better to find a similar program that isn't owned by a parent company that denegrates atheists.

>>>>>

That is of course your opinion, and you can believe what you choose. I think there are many who feel differently. Learning for Life has involved over 10 million young people.

Which organization would you suggest for atheist children?

I find it discouraging to see people who want to tear down the BSA rather than build an alternative program they believe could serve youth better. It shows intolerance, which is itself, a source of discrimination.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

>>>>Eagledad writes>>>>>

If you were personally given the ability to kill the BSA completely or leave it alone as it is presently, what would choose?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>Merlyn responds>>>>>

If those are my ONLY to choices, I'd have to kill it, because currently the federal and state governments are violating the rights of atheists by having government agencies run Boy Scout units that unlawfully practice religious discrimination, which is unconstitutional. Religious civil rights are too important to violate so casually.

>>>>>>>>

If those weren't your only two choices, what would you rather do?

Naturally I would have to disagree with your killing off the Scouts. I think the Scouting organization does many great things for a lot of kids.

I understand your argument against using government sponsorship for a private organization that does not have inclusive membership. (Although the government does provide chapels on military bases using federal funds.)

The ACLU went after the city of Chicago a few years back, and that pretty much ended that type of municipal sponsorship. Exploring was absorbed into Learning for Life for those municipal sponsored units. The DOD is now stopping the direct sponsorship of units.

I don't know of any public schools sponsoring units in my local area. PTA's used to, but not anymore.

Scouting will still have fair access to public facilities. The loss of that type of direct sponsorship will have little consequence.

The BSA, through Learning for Life, does serve youth that are atheist. If you were able to kill off the BSA, you would be hurting atheist children as well as believers.

How are you specifically being hurt by the BSA existing? At what point would you feel at peace?

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

Back in the good old days, our troop used to go to Philmont every other year. That fizzled as treks became harder to come by. Our last visit was in 1995.

There is a whole world outside Philmont for you to explore. There is a long list of council sponsored high adventure programs, many of which have been mentioned in previous posts.

There is also the option of doing a troop sponsored program, where your PLC makes the plan.

It requires much more time and effort in planning, but is also far less expensive. I also think the lessons learned can be much greater. The options become almost limitless.

For backpacking, in the last couple summers we've done Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado, Adirondack Mountains in New York, Appalachian/Long Trail in Vermont, and the Porcupine Mountains in Michigan. There are dozens of other places to go.

Some other high adventure programs we've done can be seen at...

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/9857/trip_reports.htm

Good luck to you and your troop.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

>>>>>dan posted>>>

A poster (one that I usually agree with) posted that you should never have a scout tent by himself. I do not agree with this statement. >>>>>>>>

I agree with you Dan.

We usually have 2 boys to a tent. If we have an odd number we will sometimes have 3 in a tent. If we have a boy who wants a tent by himself, that's usually not a problem either.

I normally always sleep in a tent alone.

Sound carries very well between tents (sometimes too well). I see no safety issue, unless a boy has a medical condition or if there is extreme weather conditions.

There is certainly no BSA rule forbidding it.

Either way, it's up to each troop. It something that is more about preference than right or wrong.

If it's not a health or safety issue, I usually allow the boys to make those tenting decisions.

If a boy tents alone, it always been by his choice.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

My dad was playing basketball with friends at his high school gym on that Sunday.

He quit high school when he turned 17 so he could join the Navy. He was in 4 years, then later called back for Korea.

This past summer our troop visited Hawaii. Our first program activity was to visit the U.S.S. Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor. It's a visit the boys will always remember.

The boys have seen the movies, the recent film with Ben Affleck, and the older one, Tora! Tora! Tora!

December 7, 1941 was a defining moment in our history that ultimately changed the world. It's a painful part of our history that must not be forgotten.

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois