cliffgolden

My troop did a camporee based on CSI and Clue. Different events had clues and patrols had to formulate the crime scene solution and bring their answer to the campfire. I don't remember many details and I can't find a write up. The boys planned it. They had fun.

 

My troop did the Mission Impossible Camporee back in the fall of 1997. It was one of the earlier night camporees ever held. The website for that event was mentioned:

http://www.troop33dekalb.net/mission1.htm

 

Links to camporee ideas may be of interest:

http://www.troop33dekalb.net/links.html#camporee

 

Eight years ago in 2002 we hosted another night event camporee for our district called "Project Darklight". The boys did the planning and it was well received. It's similar to 1997, but with some different events. I wish we had constructed a website for it. Below is a summary of the camporee posted to Scouts-L listserv 10-08-02.

 

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

 

Subject: Project Darklight

From: golden cliff

Reply-To: golden cliff

Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:40:19 -0500

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments: TEXT/PLAIN (139 lines)

 

 

 

Project Darklight was the name of our recent Camporee.

 

It was a night camporee, similar to one we did 5 years ago called Mission Impossible. It was themed to spies doing night missions.

 

The program started about 6:45pm and continued until about 2:00am.

 

My older Scouts were young ones when we did the last night camporee.

They thought is was great and wanted to run it this time around, so I

stepped back and let the boys have the freedom to make it happen. They did a great job and we got a very positive response from the troops in attendance.

 

Here is a summary of the program.

 

Troops starting assembling around 6:45pm on Saturday night, where they

were assigned to one of eight groups. The opening included an 8-10 minute video filmed and edited by the boys. It was shown on the side of a building using a video projector.

 

The film was very professional. The story line had our local university as a secret government installation being used for the development of satelite based laser weapons. Some bad guys stole some computer discs, good guys stole them back. During a pursuit, they give the disc to a boy scout selling popcorn. Three days later at a troop meeting, a govt agent approaches the boy and asks about the disc. He is instructed to bring the disc to the camporee that weekend for a rendezvous. Both good and bad guys are coming to the camporee looking for the Scout with the disc.

 

At the end of the film the MC asks if the Scout with the disc is present. From the back of the crowd the boy holds up the disc. Just then a jeep drives up and the Scout is kidnapped. The jeep speeds off into the camp.

 

The 8 Groups of Scouts must now go on several dangerous missions to defeat the bad guys and save the kidnapped Scout. There are 8 themed events.

 

Event 1 -- Surveillance Recon

-------

The group is divided into two subgroups, Alpha and Beta. Alpha is given a radio, a laptop computer, and a map showing where a disc is hidden. Beta is taken to a large enclosed tent with a radio, blank paper, and a marker.

 

Alpha uses the radio to describe the map to Beta who attempts to draw it. A security campera is trained on Beta's table. Alpha watches Beta drawing the map through the camera image on the laptop's screen. Alpha communicates the map descriptions and corrections to Beta through the radio. When Beta gets the map right, they use it to go out and recover the disc. It's all about communications and teamwork.

 

 

Event 2 -- Blind Escape

-------

There's been an explosion blinding half the group. Everyone must escape before a second explosion kills everyone. Time is limited. Scouts are paired up. One blindfolded, one not. The sighted Scout must talk the blindfolded Scout through an obstacle course to safely escape.

 

 

Event 3 -- Secret Agents

-------

Hiking a trail through dense woods, the group encounters two agents, first evil, then good. They must report as much detail to the second good agent about what the first evil agent said and a full physical description. It's a version of Kim's Game.

 

 

Event 4 -- Enemy Encampment

-------

Enemy agents are sitting around their campsite. Your group must get close enough to count the people, tents, and equipment, then create a diversion so a team can get into the campsite and retreive a disc.

 

 

Rest break/snack time

--------------------

Halfway through the program, we had a 30 minute rest time. Each group was responsible for having their own sack lunches, snacks, and drinks.

 

 

Event 5 -- Codebreaker

-------

Each group divides into two. Each subgroup must send and receive a

message in morse code using flashing lights. The message is a code

telling them it's safe to proceed to the next event.

 

 

Event 6 -- Satelite Recon

-------

Scouts are given coordinates to where satelite weapons have been hidden. They are to use compasses to locate the satelites and report on their existance. (One of the boys made some really great looking satelites out of cardboard which were suspended from trees with fishing line. They looked like they were hovering in mid air when illuminated by flashlights.)

 

 

Event 7 -- Finding Jordan

-------

Jordan is the name of the kidnapped 12 year-old Scout. It was a basic

search and recue operation at a remote part of camp. (We had a coyote

problem at that end of camp. A coyote came within 20 feet of where Jordan was hiding. He shined his flashlight on the beast and it went running away. So did Jordan. As the group was ready to go out in search of Jordan, he came running up the hill at full speed screaming... " C O Y O T E ! "

 

 

Event 8 -- Worst Case Scenario

-------

As the staff member is explaining the rules of this event, an enemy agent comes out of the darkness, shoots him three times with a loud toy gun, and retreats back into the darkness. The group must treat him for first aid; three gunshot wounds in the leg (puncture wounds), a broken arm from falling, and shock.

 

 

At the end of the event, we had a Mission De-Briefing. Groups had been given a disc with a number score from each event. The discs are tallied and 3rd Place, 2nd Place, and 1st Place are announced. Units were back in their campsites by 2:00am. It got dark and quiet very fast.

 

Each event was 30 minutes with a 10 minute travel time in between.

 

It was a great leadership event for our troop. All Scouts participated in planning and running the Camporee. Adults were in supportive roles.

 

I had no job during the Camporee, which was nice. I just walked around without a flashlight, using my night vision, observing. We borrowed 12 FRS radios for communications, with each event having a radio and key staff. I didn't have one though. I watched, usually secretly. Sometimes I would reveal myself and there would be a newsflash on the radio that there had been a confirmed "Cliff Sighting".

 

Most of the time, they didn't know where I was. They did a great job. It was a lot of work, but also a lot of fun for them.

 

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

 

 

 

 

Little Archibald Lake is located off Rt 32 between Lakewood and Townsend, Wisconsin. It's final camping season was 1986 and the camp was subsequently sold as was Chin-Be-Gota. It has been subdivided into large lots and now homes line parts of the lake. At least there is a decent set back requirement in that area so they're not right on the lakeshore.

 

I first attended Little Archie in 1967. The camp's name was changed to Chief Shabbona Wilderness Camp after Chief Shabbona Council merged with Kedeka Area Council in 1968. Since their camp in Sugar Grove was named Camp Kedeka they wanted a camp to contain the words Chief Shabbona to memorialize both former councils. I attended camp at Chief Shabbona Wilderness (LIttle Archie) again in 1969. Our troop went before the regular season started and we had the camp completely to ourselves.

 

One of my favorite places was called "Cathedral of the Pines", a place dominated by very tall pines. Hopefully there's not a house there now. Bald eagles used to nest at Little Archie, now wealthy vacationers do.

 

This might be of interest to a few people.

 

The old main lodge at Chin-Be-Gota is now a rental property, so those of you wanting to visit can do so. I just found out about this. They have it as a three bedroom deluxe cabin that sleeps 12 people.

 

Here's a link to the URL:

http://www.lakehousevacations.com/page-5354.html

I am a Scoutmaster of a troop that owns a fleet of watercraft.

 

Our troop's fleet includes: 13 canoes, 3 kayaks, and 2 sailboats. We started creating our fleet in 1985.

 

The canoes were all purchased used, and the sailboats and kayas were all older craft donated by their owners. They needed lots of TLC.

 

Our canoes consist of 6 aluminum Grumman canoes, 6 royalex Indian canoes, and 1 poly Coleman Scanoe. We use our Coleman the least. I don't recommend Coleman.

 

Our kayaks are all canvass over frame. They need work.

The sailboats include a 16ft Luger Leeward, and a 12ft Sunfish.

 

We are fortunate to have a local industry provide us warehouse space for storage. Everything is kept indoors unless being used. We have two canoe trailers plus one tailer for our 16' sailboat. Our trailers can be pulled by a mini-van, van, or truck. It's usually not a problem finding a capable vehicle.

 

In Illinois, Scout canoes do not require registration with the Dept of Conservation, and charitable license plates are very inexpensive. The driver,s insurance covers trailers while being towed.

 

Check with your state for local requirements.

 

We generally loan canoes to other troops a couple times per year, and our troop might have 2-5 canoe trips each year, and that can vary.

 

Sometimes canoe outfitters sell off older boats pretty cheaply. That's where many of ours came from. Our canoes are old and beaten, but they float. We paddle lakes and easy rivers.

 

It's much easier for us to plan a float trip by having our own canoes and we save money by not paying rental fees. It's worked out very well for us.

 

Over the years we've paddled our canoes on rivers in Illinois, Wisconsin, Missouri, Montana, and Minnesota.

 

Some web sources...

 

Canoe manufacturers:

http://www.geocities.com/cliffgolden/equipment.htm#canoe

 

Our watercraft page:

http://www.geocities.com/cliffgolden/t33canoe.htm#canloc

 

Our troop equipment page: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/9857/t33equipment.htm#wa

 

 

Good luck and good paddling to you.

 

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

 

I think the eagle's nest that you're thinking of was over at Chief Shabbona Wilderness Camp (Little Archie).

 

I know Troop 11 Aurora is still going strong. It is now in the Foxfire District. Here is their website:

http://troop11aurora-il.org/

 

I worked with John McKenzie from Troop 11 on Chin-Be-Gota staff at in 1976 and 1977. He was Asst Camp Director in 1976, and Camp Director in 1977. John continues to be active in Scouting currently serving as Advancement Chairman of the Foxfire District.

 

Cliff Golden

 

 

I think the eagle's nest that you're thinking of was over at Chief Shabbona Wilderness Camp (Little Archie).

 

I know Troop 11 Aurora is still going strong. It is now in the Foxfire District. Here is their website:

http://troop11aurora-il.org/

 

I worked with John McKenzie from Troop 11 on Chin-Be-Gota staff at in 1976 and 1977. He was Asst Camp Director in 1976, and Camp Director in 1977. John continues to be active in Scouting currently serving as Advancement Chairman of the Foxfire District.

 

Cliff Golden

 

 

I think the eagle's nest that you're thinking of was over at Chief Shabbona Wilderness Camp (Little Archie).

 

I know Troop 11 Aurora is still going strong. It is now in the Foxfire District. Here is their website:

http://troop11aurora-il.org/

 

I worked with John McKenzie from Troop 11 on Chin-Be-Gota staff at in 1976 and 1977. He was Asst Camp Director in 1976, and Camp Director in 1977. John continues to be active in Scouting currently serving as Advancement Chairman of the Foxfire District.

 

Cliff Golden

 

Rich or "Grumpy",

 

I attended Chin-Be-Gota as a Scout in 1968, 1970, and 1971. (As a Scout I was at Camp Rotary MacQueen in 1965 and 1966, and Chief Shabbona in 1967 and 1969).

 

I worked on Chin-Be-Gota staff as Field Sports Director in 1976 and 1977.

 

I brought my troop up to Chin-Be-Gota as a Scoutmaster in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1984, and 1986. I think I helped paint indians for the Wed night OA ceremony several of those years.

 

I hate to be one always ringing of death, but in case some of you did't know, Griz Adams passed away in 1991. Someone mentioned Bob Ford in an earlier post. Bob died in 1994 after a tragic car accident in 1992 rendered him a quadrapalegic.

 

Just to balance things out with someone living, Jeff Merkling is alive and well and back in Scouting as an adult leader with his 12-year-old son down in Missouri.

 

Good to hear from you guys.

 

 

Cliff Golden

It appears the statute that Merlyn referred to was Public Law 92-249 enacted by Congress in 1972.

 

From website: http://www.aphill.army.mil/sites/mwr/boysscout.asp

 

"All branches of the military service have given support to world and national jamborees. In 1972, Congress recognized such support officially when it enacted Public Law 92-249. Since the first Scout Jamboree in 1937, through the 2001 national Scout Jamboree, the military has provided personnel, equipment, and services of all types."

 

The same quote appears here in talking about the BSA and the military.

http://www.scouting.org/jamboree/2001/facts/sheets/04.htm

 

There is a more detailed explanation here

http://www.dlaps.hq.dla.mil/dlar/r4140.27.htm#_LOAN_OF_EQUIPMENT

 

It looks like this statute does not include any other youth programs, but is an exclusive accommodation to the BSA. This statute dates from 1972.

 

The military and the BSA's relationship extend decades before this legislation was enacted. How does the ACLU lawsuit affect the relationship between the military and the BSA beyond this statute?

 

It seems that besides the judicial appeal process, the BSA and DOD might find another solution that would make the 2010 Jamboree a reality at Fort A.P. Hill.

 

If the military can quantify the benefits of its service to the BSA, then can the BSA quantify its benefit to the military as a training excersize and recruiting activity in some monetary measurement?

 

That might not eliminate the military bill, but the balance of those two measurements might substantially reduce it.

 

 

Cliff Golden

 

 

I've worked with boys from many religious groups, Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Jewish, Unitarian, Buddhist, Ba'hai, Moslem, Wiccan, and Hindu. I've worked with many boys that didn't belong to any formal religion.

 

Scouting describes itself as non-sectarian.

 

There may be some conservative religions that embrace Scouting ideals. That doesn't suddenly make the BSA sectarian.

 

Due to membership numbers some groups have more influence than others. That's not going to change anytime soon.

 

But aren't we straying from the original topic?

 

None of that has any bearing regarding accepting federal assistance through the DOD for the Jamboree.

 

"A federal judge ruled late last month that the Pentagon funding is unconstitutional because the Boy Scouts are a religious organization, requiring Scouts to affirm a belief in God. The case was initiated by the American Civil Liberties Union."

 

Two clauses of the First Amendment concern the relationship of government to religion: the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause.

 

The First Congress that proposed the Bill of Rights also opened its legislative day with prayer and voted to apportion federal dollars to establish Christian missions in the Indian lands.

 

So I don't think they meant to erect a wall between government and religion.

 

Federal dollars provide military chaplains for troops stationed overseas. Does that violate the Establishment Clause? Then again, failing to provide a chaplain might violate the Free Exercise Clause rights of those same troops.

 

Is the federal government stating that an organization that believes in a supreme being cannot be supported by the government? Then is the government favoring atheism? Does that then violate the Free Exercise Clause of the Constitution for theist groups?

 

The relationship between the BSA and the military regarding the Jamboree has been described as symbiotic. Both parties derive a direct benefit.

 

Maybe the military should just offer the same opportunity for any non-profit youth organization to conduct a tent city program with a minimum 30,000 persons in attendance at Fort A.P. Hill for the benefit of a U.S. military training excersize.

 

The offer would be available to theist and atheist youth groups alike. Then there would be no discrimination, both would have the same opportunity.

 

Of course any group doing so would also have to invest millions of dollars just as the BSA has done in the past. That's only fair.

 

That would serve the military's training needs and provide equal access to any youth program that qualifies.

 

 

Cliff Golden

 

I think you want a balanced program for the year. Amusement parks are like dessert. You don't want too much, but they can sure sweeten the meal.

 

We have included amusement parks on some of our long tours. We usually have an annual trip to our local Six Flags in October during their "Fright Fest".

 

Actually boys do a fair amount of walking/hiking during the day, and I always use the map to find where I'm at and where I want to go. So you might rationalize some hiking and map work, but I think boys just having fun together is reason enough to do it.

 

 

Cliff Golden

 

Horse treks are overnight horseback trips. Regular horseback riding is listed for all but Tigers.

 

Horse treks are suggested for "older" Scouts, Varsity Scouts, and Venturers.

 

Philmont Scout Ranch offers Cavalcade programs (horse treks) for older Scouts.

 

 

Cliff Golden

 

Boys planning trips by themselves is a great goal. It doesn't happen all at once, it's a gradual process.

 

I think we want boys to learn how to plan a trip so they can do their own adventures later in life.

 

Starting at 11, they should be planning their menus and buying food with their patrol. It builds from there.

 

Adults have a role to play in this process, we don't just walk away and say "do it". We need to coach them through the process and make suggestions, provide support materials when needed, etc.

 

We had a trip to Cancun a few years back and ran a contest to see who could find the cheapest airfare. I didn't win, a boy did.

 

With the internet as such an important research tool these days and with teenagers having good computer skills, they can suprise you with the information they can gather.

 

We had a trip to Hawaii last summer. Our Troop Scribe presented hiking adventures to the guys and that's where we hiked, plus a few other things that came up from locals after we arrived.

 

The boys planned all the meals and purchased the food. I did arrange flights and auto rentals, as well as overnight accomodations. The boys don't have credit cards. They were involved in the decisions and the process though.

 

It needs to be a learning experience. I want to support them on THEIR trip, not have them tag along on MY trip. They should have ownership of the program and strategic planning is a big part of that.

 

We're doing a 400-mile Iron Man bike trip next month. It's part of a plan developed by some 13-year-olds ten years ago. They wanted to bike across the USA, north/south and east/west. Each summer they did a section. Our current boys are taking up that challenge after a 3-year hiatus. It's their choice, and their program.

 

YIS,

Cliff Golden

Scoutmaster Troop 33

DeKalb, Illinois

 

I thought I should report on the death of a former Chin-Be-Gota staff member from a few years back. He's been gone three years already.

 

Gerry Streit passed away on February 20, 2002. He died of a stroke at the age of 55.

 

I thought former CBG staffers might want to know of Gerry's passing.

 

Gerry probably worked at CBG longer than any other staffer. He spent 10 summers on staff with his last year in 1976 as Commissary Director.

 

He was active with Troop 29 and Troop 57 in Aurora.

 

Gerry also served as Order of the Arrow Lodge Advisor for Glikhikan Lodge 106 and was chairman of the Two River Council Camping Committee for several years as well.

 

He received Vigil Honor, Founders Award, District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, Silver Antelope, and Distinguished Eagle Scout Award and probably other awards I don't know about.

 

Gerry loved Chin-Be-Gota and Scouting and worked on behalf of the program his entire lifetime.

 

You can read a Senate Resolution created in Gerry's honor at...

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/srgroups/sr/920SR0348LV.html

 

 

YIS,

Cliff Golden

CBG Staff 1976, 1977

 

Wherever it goes, it should begin with a candid conversation with Mr. Z, and find out what his explanation is.

 

It's easy to start building major cases, but often times there are explanations that might not ever occur to us.

 

It's best to collect facts and then go from there.

 

 

Cliff Golden

Sorry I'm late.

I've been busy working with my troop.

 

I'm not a regular here, I wander in and out, now and then, as time permits.

 

I don't even have a cool imaginative screen name. (I logged in the first time with my real name, and just continued with it.)

 

I don't know many of you. I do appreciate the discourse on various subjects.

 

Some of the more contraversial subjects probably will never effect Scouting in my troop.

 

Still it's good to read the arguments though, and especially those arguments against Scouting policies are a benefit to hear, in case someone in my locality ever attacks our program, I will be versed in a variety of defensive responses.

 

Those we consider enemies of Scouting might actually be doing us a huge favor by showing us their weapons of argument and reason. It's an opportunity to rehearse those arguments if the need arises in our local communities to defend Scouting policies.

 

Of course, we always need to remember that we are Scouters and the world is watching. A certain decorum of behavior should be sought.

 

How we act might speak louder than what we say.

 

I'd like to stay and sit around the campfire with all of you, I really would, but that's not what I do in Scouting.

 

I've got a bunch of anxious boys here that want to go hiking, so I'm hitting the trail with my Scouts. I'll stop in to see you guys from time to time.

 

OK Jerry, well... maybe a little huckleberry cobbler before I go, just a small hunk. OK, a little bigger than that.

 

Thanks, I'm going now.

 

Really.

 

Mmmmmm! Mmmmmm! Wow!!!

This is really some fantastic cobbler!!!

 

...the rush of tramping feet shuffling through leaves mixed with the lighthearted banter of boys as they hike, growing ever more distant, fading away, slowly melding into the chirping of crickets and the sounds of woods at night, we are gone.

 

Good Scouting to you.

 

 

Cliff Golden

I didn't realize your name was Brian Westley. It all makes sense to me now. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

You can say that the BSA has gone to court many times to exclude atheists, or you can say they've gone to court to defend their rights to include God in their Oath and their program. I prefer the latter.

 

I don't see the BSA as intent on practicing religious discrimination.

 

I've worked with boys from nearly all religions in my troop; Christian, Hindu, Moslem, Buddhist, Jewish, Wiccan, Ba'hai, etc. The BSA doesn't require any Scout to even belong to a religion. They only need to believe in a supreme being. It is an afirmation of what the BSA believes in. You seem to be asking them to abandon those beliefs.

 

I believe the majority of the people supporting our government also supports the BSA, but your point is taken, Scouting should not expect special government support.

 

I think that shouldn't rule out fair use or government cooperation, such as the Jamboree, where the military has stated it is beneficial to them as a valuable training excersize.

 

Learning for Life is a wholly owned subsidiary of the BSA. As you've admitted, the Learning for Life subsidiary doesn't discriminate or denegrate anyone. It is open to all and has served millions of youth. I would think you'd be supportive of that effort.

 

I've been involved in Scouting for 43 years, yet I don't feel I've been taught, or have taught, discrimination. I've been positively exposed to the ideals of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

I work at a university with a very diverse group of people. I know people who are gay and/or atheist. Though I may not agree with their belief or lifestyle, I appreciate and respect them as good decent people.

 

The Boy Scouts of America have defended their traditional beliefs in court, and continue to serve millions of boys as they've done for nearly a century.

 

They have expended significant resources to create a new nontraditional program open to all youth.

 

The BSA works for millions of people. It seems no matter what they do, they will always endure the wrath of a few.

 

Cliff Golden

You wrote a letter to the editor at the time the article was published. Would you like to share your letter with us?

 

--merlyn wrote----------

It only underscores my point; the BSA didn't see any problem with the situation until the ACLU finally threatened to sue them, which was due to me pointing out to the ACLU that there were thousands of government sponsored units out there.

--end quote----------

 

The BSA saw no problem serving millions of boys. I think their focus was on serving boys, rather than discriminating. The ACLU didn't see any problem either, until you pointed it out.

 

I'm not familiar with the Klan Youth Corps, but I understand the Klan has a doctrine of teaching discrimination and bigotry.

 

The BSA has nothing in their handbook regarding gay people at all, nor does any publication the boys would read.

 

It only has the Declaration of Religious Principle which says in part...

 

"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely non-sectarian in its attitude toward that religious training".

 

The BSA is merely stating an ideal they believe in. They have that right. You're free to disagree with it.

 

Besides that one sentence, can you provide any other evidence of discrimination being taught by the BSA?

 

What if the BSA revised their DRP to say...

 

"The Boy Scouts of America recognizes an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of its members, but is absolutely non-sectarian in its attitude toward that religious training".

 

Would you still be launching lawsuits against the BSA?

 

--Merlyn writes----------

And how well do you think an organization that denegrates atheists and gays is able to teach atheist and gay students about ethics? One thing the BSA says their Learning for Life program does is teach ethics.

--end quote----------

 

Learning for Life doesn't have the Declaration of Religious Principles associated with it or any of its materials. Neither the BSA nor Learning for Life has anything written in its program materials that denigrates gays. I think it can teach ethics just fine. Over 10 million youth have been involved in the program so far. It's doing quite well.

 

--Merlyn writes----------

Do you realize Exploring was moved into Learning for Life due to ACLU lawsuits?

--end quote----------

 

I'm familiar with the lawsuit. I live an hour away from Chicago. I am familiar with Rick Sherman and his crusade. He is a nearby radio talk show host.

 

--Merlyn wrote----------

No, scouter.com clearly says they're a private forum. Nobody has a RIGHT to express their views here.

--end quote----------

 

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

 

I revise my statement to say that you have the right to your views. We all share in that freedom, including the BSA.

 

I mean no disrespect to you Merlyn, I just disagree with your viewpoints.

 

 

Cliff Golden

wingnut,

 

Now you've opened a whole new door. I'm taking one giant step back. I don't want to be the first one to walk through it.

 

 

packsaddle,

 

They already have at least 9 subscriptions going to 1060 West Addison, Chicago, IL. (More if you include the reserve players, umpires, managers, and coaches.)

 

 

Fuzzy Bear,

 

You share with us very wise words.

 

Somewhere we have to reconcile the idea of "Judge not, lest you be judged" (which I heartfully believe in) and protecting our youth.

 

In the example, I don't think a Playboy magazine is enough to condemn anyone, but we do have to make judgements every day about people who work with our youth ("God helps those who help themselves").

 

We just need to remember that we are all imperfect and fallible and not to judge others too swiftly or too harshly. It's not a perfect system. Perfection is not for this world.

 

Cliff Golden(This message has been edited by cliffgolden)

Merlyn, did you personally post a reply to the editorial? Maybe I misunderstood.

 

I visited your link and just saw the two that you had copied for us. Was there another editorial written by you?

 

I think I understand the point you are making.

 

I also understand that schools and other government sponsorships are being changed over to being chartered by private groups, so your point is quickly fading into history.

 

The article describes what Scouting is doing for youth today. I think it does a wonderful job of communicating what Scouting is really all about.

 

I understand you feel the BSA is spreading discrimination against you. You have been very vocal on that issue.

 

I don't think you'll convince many people that the BSA exists in order to spread discrimination, it exists rather to celebrate and support the ideals contained in that article.

 

Scouting exists to help kids. It does direct it's program to boys and high school age girls who are heterosexual and believe in God.

 

The BSA has created Learning for Life and converted Exploring to be open to all, supporting those youth who do not qualify for membership in our traditional programs.

 

The BSA does not happen to agree with your views. They have that right. That's what freedom of speech is all about.

 

You certainly have the right to express your views here. We all share in that freedom.

 

Cliff Golden

The Call-out is a public recognition of his election to the Order.

 

It's similar to a commencement. Just because you don't attend commencement doesn't mean you don't graduate.

 

His Call-out ceremony won't affect his election. He should be notified about when he can complete his Ordeal weekend and become a member.

 

I have boys that miss the call-out ceremony at Camporee every year. They are still invited to complete their Ordeal and become members of the Order of the Arrow.

 

If you still have any concerns, you should call your local council service center and they should be able to provide you with a definitive answer.

 

Cliff Golden

 

He probably already gets the magazine anyway.

(for intellectual nurishment)

 

Cliff

 

Packsaddle,

 

1600 Pensylvania Avenue; Washington D.C.?

Now is that your home address, work address, or both?

 

Are you the head of the household? Can I visit you this summer after Jambo?

 

Cliff Golden

 

 

I once had a philosophy course back in college that dealt with morality. I remember reading Plato, Heidegger, Kant, and others. The decades following since have dimmed much that I once knew (or thought I knew).

 

I seem to remember that some philosophers looked at consequence of actions. Kind of; no harm, no foul, view of morality.

 

Machiavelli looked at the end justifying the means.

 

Some considered the free will of the individual to be the moral source, more so than the physical action or its consequence.

 

If the Scouter used the Playboy for donating sperm at a bank in order to help a couple with infertility problems, that might be considered a moral act, even a generous one.

 

If he used the publication as a vehicle for some fetish, that might reveal something else and be viewed differently.

 

If he really subscribes to Playboy for the articles (some people actually do), and only sought intellectual nurishment, that might be considered moral, even admirable.

 

Maybe someone thought it would be a cute joke to subscribe to the magazine in his name, then his son discovered it and took it into the bathroom and left it there.

 

There could be many possible scenarios.

 

As for the BSA, I understand that we are not to enquire about anyone's sexuality. It's a "don't ask, don't tell" situation and those with alternate lifestyles, if not avowed, do not affect our organization's expressive message, so we do not make it an issue.

 

In this case the Scouter in question has not made any announcements or expressed any messages to youth (as far as we know). He may be quilty of not policing his bathroom before having a meeting of Scouters in his home, or something more sinister?

 

That may be more a reflection of his attention to detail and thoughtfulness, than his morality.

 

Is he guilty of bad housekeeping, or something darker? We really can't say based on the information furnished.

 

I don't think we have any reason to report him.

(We might keep a watchful eye on him though.)

 

Of course we should always be policing each other when the health and safety of youth is involved.

 

Cliff Golden

We had something similar happen last weekend. A boy felt sick in the middle of the night with pain in his stomach.

 

The pains weren't too severe and home was not that far away. We called his father on a cell phone then transported him home immediately.

 

He was fine and at Monday's meeting. He did feel embarrassed about leaving the campout. We didn't make any mention of it at the meeting.

 

I would be careful about singling a new Scout out in front of everyone.

 

You might want to recognize and praise his tentmate who responded to an emergency and stress the importance of what he did.