Cito

I'm just looking for the most useful outlet for MV's interest in SB's.

There is no telling what motivates each volunteer, the trick is in directing that interest rather than telling them that their brand of motivation is wrong.

This is my first attempt at spinning off a thread and I'm hopeful this hyper linking works. My apologies if not. trailer thread

We were discussing the merits of troop trailers and I realized that maybe they are appropriate above a certain length of time but overcomplicate quick camping. For summer camp when you'll be there for a week, clearly more time for setting up and breaking camp is acceptable than for an overnighter.

So my question is how much time is appropriate for making and breaking camp and where does it cross into being too much and needing to simplify. Should it be a percentage of the weekend, like 5% or is it a non-linear function or should it always be 30 minutes on both?

I'm sure there is no easy answer, but as usual that's why I'm asking.

When I was a youth we had patrol chuck boxes, wall tents, foot lockers and cots at summer camp and it all went in trailers. We also were in a place where everyone had pickups and suburbans so the trailers came.

Then as I started going to Philmont and did high adventure Exploring, we dumped all that and went pure lightweight backpacking style.

In the long run, a lot of my camping has been outside scouting and I can say that the trailer camping skills don't translate like the lightweight skills do. I think a big part of what we are teaching the scouts are skills that can be used outside of scouting.

I'd say $400 buys a downpayment on Philmont or 10 days of Autumn Adventure there. Maybe there is some amount of gear involved.

I don't think that backpacking light is really a mystery, so I'd be curious what they are teaching that's really innovative. Buy light gear, bring only what you need and focus on losing excess body weight.

If you do go, please share anything thought provoking that you learn.

Tiger, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Webelos, Arrow of Light

Cub Day Camp Den Chief

Parent, Tiger Cub Den Leader, Assistant Cubmaster, Cubmaster (starting now)

Hi MV Scouter,

I noticed that the replies here were from some of the most seasoned contributors and thought I'd also give you a perspective from one of the newer guys (who is far from SB recognition).

An important thing with achievements/recognitions like Eagle Scout or the Silver Beaver is that recipients see them as a milestone rather than a finish line. We need to encourage them to continue to contribute and know that their contribution is no less valuable the day before the award than the day after. After all they got their award for stuff that they did as a non-SB. It's also important to remember that so much of the real and important work is what happens at the unit level. With that said, I think the notion of a club for people who crossed the finish line at the council level runs contrary to this.

My thought is what you should focus the SB efforts on is a small task force that keeps a roll of all past recipients. Once or twice a year, your group could verify who is still active in scouting and if they're not, reach out to them and see if you can reengage them. The council will obviously want them to be an IIC target, but you should focus on keeping them engaged with service that directly benefits the youth.

Good luck

Where in Oklahoma?

I'm a Sooner.

Have not tried using Denners yet. In fact I haven't ever seen a kid wearing Denner cords. I'll have to watch for them at Scout Show next weekend.

The Philmont expedition numbers are date based, so 608 is June 8th arrival.

OGE, which trek are you taking?

qwazse, I have a hard enough time getting people to just sew on a patch, let alone a whole uniform, but I'd like to see what you've come up with.

When I worked at Philmont in leadership we wore the ODL every day and I really didn't have much in the way of complaints.

I think the current uniforms are fairly serviceable. They are cut a bit larger than the ODL and the microfiber is about as casual as you can get in a button down shirt.

The Canadian uniforms look pretty much the same other than color. Personally I like the muted colors of our uniform.

There isn't an official order. Its generally chronological on shirts that have been around for a while with the youth knots first. The only trick is getting them square on the pocket and making sure they face the right way.

Honestly, I think the plastic badge holders are a pretty poor idea for rank badges. I would agree that teaching him to sew on the badges is a good idea. At a minimum they are on for 2 months each and that's 8 meetings and a couple campouts.

For those badges with the rolled edge, you don't actually have to push a needle through the badge, just run it through the shirt, run through a few pieces of thread on the back and back through the shirt. Once the badge is on straight it is maybe 10 stitches and done. 15 minutes of work and for these that won't be on for long, nothing wrong with sewing the pocket shut. I'd compromise that before going to the plastic badge holder.

If it helps, I lost enough weight that I dropped a shirt size and am sewing patches on three different shirts right now, a patch or two each night because its terribly boring.

Thanks for the quick suggestions. The art of getting both the boys excited about the program and the parents excited about volunteering is my big question I suppose.

It looks like it isn't quite either one.

This is the page off REI with both. http://www.rei.com/search?search=backpacking+stoves&origin=Google&jxBrand=MSR&hist=search%2Cbackpacking+stoves^jxBrand%2CMSR

It does burn kerosene which the standard one doesn't, but the the international has been changed to lighten it up.

I'd say, if you only burn white gas, save $10 and get the shaker jet. If you want to burn kerosene, go this route. If you want to save a little weight and maybe burn unleaded, go for the international.

The next time I see one in person, I'll know more. I've had a couple MSR Whisperlites for about 20 years, pretty much look exactly the same, just subtle improvements. Of course the same can be said of the Coleman two burners.

So we've got everything lined up for a couple join nights in about a week. We're holding them on two different nights to maximize the opportunities. Emails have gone out to schools, flyers are going home with boys, rooms are reserved at the elementary schools and the DE's are going into the schools to talk to boys...

Now what do we actually do at the join nights besides take names and talk to the parents about cub scouting being a family program? I'd really like this to be a method for getting both boys and new adult volunteers, especially for the incoming tigers.

Our DE has encouraged me to push signing up for the cub camp programs, which I think is a great idea. I'm also planning to push the scout show that happens on the following Saturday.

blw2,

Just to clarify, I think the notion that if you're around for the year, you get the award is incorrect. That's just something that I'm seeing in this pack and trying to improve. I think we're on the same page here.

I am also discovering here at the end of the year that there is a general attitude in our pack that if you did the year, you are awarded the rank and the specific sign off of each item isn't important. I've led the tiger den and we've put together a program that facilitated that by covering everything, but i know some dens are a bit less serious. I plan to raise that expectation.

I think the goal as adult leaders has to be to improve the program and the expectations each year. Do what you can in the next month, accept that the Tiger rank isn't the Eagle Scout rank and plan an awesome Wolf year with enough fun to thrill the boys and maybe even earn a couple arrowheads.

Reaseyann,

I'm curious about a few things that will shape how you get there:

What is the age and rank makeup of the troop?

Do they have patrols and a boy leadership structure?

You mentioned meetings, are they camping monthly at this point or just focused on merit badges?

I'm really interested to know more about what is already working and what pieces you have to work with. You've made the first step in recognizing the issue and stepping up.

So that's 5 Silver Palms and a Gold, must be a full ribbon. That's impressive dedication and someone who never let an extra month slip by for the next Palm.

One of my goals is to get to at least two dens per grade level just to have them meet different nights. We lose too many kids just based on schedule conflicts that could be fixed with two options.

Wife and I took our new dog (who is now almost 14) backpacking in Arkansas, thinking that she'd be content to sleep in the vestibule of our small sierra designs tent. She wasn't and ended up in the tent with big feet and long legs pushing all night. Come to think of it, any night with a dog in the tent. Now they say home and camping is more fun.

My worst scout related would have to be summer camp in West Texas. Wall tents with no floors and never knew if youd find spiders, snakes or scorpions in there the next morning. Made you jumpy. Empty your boots before you put them on.

I would be curious to know what the average time is to each rank. As a boy I can't say that our troops were in any way advancement focused, but I know that many of us achieved first class by the end of the first year, if not Star. If anything I'd say the aim was to get to first class. Now that was the 80's. On the other hand my father left scouts at first class but was in for a few years in the 50's.

I'd say encourage the boys to plan the activities that allow a boy who attends and learns the material to get to first class within a year. If they take longer, that's fine, but I wouldn't set up a system that would take longer. Some boys will focus on the time frames and push to complete the ranks. I definitely did.

In the 90's I was a troop guide and typically we set up a schedule that allowed boys to progress through the initial ranks on time if they were focused.

Ok, well with 7 more years until the oldest is Venturing age, it will have to wait. Thanks all,

So I was digging in the basement and found a Green Explorer shirt from the late 1990s. I know that we can wear khaki ODL shirts but what is my excuse to use this shirt?

Well as you might guess, I'm happy that you're going to Cito. I see they advertise the rock gym. I know 3 of us built one in 1996 in the upper cabin, but not sure if this is a revised version.

A lot of trail camps there and the more rugged North Country. I assume that the layover is to give you a chance to climb Baldy. I don't remember House Canyon, not sure it was there before, but I know the six mile gate.

I think that the hike in from the Tooth is the way that all treks should end. In my summer as field supervisor in 1999 I staked a good section of the new trail. Its 8%, but can feel like a long walk when everyone is ready for civilization.

It looks like you have to check out the Burro's at Pueblano. But I'm not a burro guy, I'd rather just haul my stuff. We managed to skip them a couple times.

Your one dry camp is the first one, so you can haul in that water pretty easy.

Let me know any questions as you get to thinking about it, I'm sure you've got some.