Cito

I grew up in West Texas and wore scout shorts year round. I don't think I owned a pair of scout pants.

Now, in Colorado, I have switchbacks and the new canvas shorts. The shorts are better shorts than the switchbacks.

We are lucky to have a couple very good DE's in our district. Glad to have them.

Early on BD accused me of being part of national, I'm impressed that theory was right with Bobwhite.

I've known quite a few boys who did exactly what Horizon said. Were active until high school, got distracted and wrapped up their requirements right before they hit 18. I don't see how it's any different than if he'd wrapped up at 15 and never came to another meeting or activity.

Take the opportunity to ask him about the program and maybe you'll discover some ideas that will make it more attractive for the next boy to stay involved. Personally, I lost interest in my troop at 14-15 and had to find Exploring and chances to be involved with other scouting activities. You can't keep everyone active forever, though we all try very hard.

BTW, sounds like he met the requirements.

Thanks infoscouter, and where are you located?

I'm curious to understand how much of this is regional.

Had lunch today with the district executive and the district chairman. It came out that the council's goal is to have 15% of kids who are eligible to be in traditional cub scouting. Right now the number is about 5.2% in our district, which has been improving every year.

I think in the neighborhood that I'm in we have about 6.7% in our pack and I bet with the popularity of our join nights we'll push close to the 10%.

So...I know not everyone is into numbers, but where are you and what sort of percentage does your area have?

If I'm exercising in my basement I have to have the TV on, otherwise I'd last about five minutes.

But when I go for a hike, I'd like nothing better than to have the sense to leave the electronics in the car. For a long trip I'd have to imagine that it would mirror qwazse's statement about the challenge being battery life. In any case, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the trip, everyone will have their own way of enjoying the hike.

My father and I had this argument for many years. Through the early 90's I was always with a Jansport external frame pack. Did Philmont 4 times with that pack and I still have it. Then, when I could stretch to afford a Dana Design internal frame pack, I bought one and have not looked back. While it is warmer (my father's fault with internals) that's because its more integrated into my body and I think it carries the weight much better.

I have 3 Dana packs, a 30 liter, 50 liter and 70 liter. Now of course they don't make them any more but there are similar packs out there. Whatever you buy, make sure to really have it fitted. My wife worked at a high end store in college and I'd listen to the Dana reps spend over an hour teaching each salesperson how to properly size and fit their packs. But it fit perfectly when they were done.

With that said, I haven't tried a new external frame so ultimately you just have to try it. If you're backpacking with youngsters and have to carry more to make it work then maybe something goes outside the pack, but if you're just carrying stuff for yourself I wouldn't hang anything outside the pack.

We had a pack meeting last night and I let all 44 boys step up to the mic and tell the audience what their favorite activity was of their year of scouting.

I'd say it was a tie between the pinewood derby and getting outside to go-see-it, hike, bike or play sports. Nobody said crafts.

In any case, I think regardless of the age group one of the great things about scouting is an excuse to get out of the meeting room and disguise some exercise with fun activities. I cancelled the indoor session for tonight and we're going to take the den to explore a new trail.

I lost the weight for woodbadge at Philmont, but I'll also say that its a lot easier to lead fun pack meetings full of song and movement when you're a bit lighter.

We have two dens with 12 and the others have 4-10 boys each. The trick is that the dens with 12 each both had great years and its unlikely that we'll lose scouts but rather bring in a lot more friends.

In example, my son is a Tiger and we have 12 boys and 2 of us who really function as co-den leaders. He has already recruited a friend and has another who is likely in addition to 4 that we picked up on the last join night. So effectively we have 18 pre-fall recruiting. In truth we need to split it into 2-3 dens.

I've been pushing the idea that we achieve success when we have multiple packs with multiple dens and provide options for boys to join who can meet almost any night of the week. Our community really functions as one group, we don't have internal boundaries for the schools, rather you choose your school so there aren't clear distinctions on which pack you join. The bright side is having options, the tough part is that I imagine one pack will emerge as the favorite and potentially pull many of the families right back in.

In any case, we're driving the train to add scouts to the program so I'm happy to tell the council what we're going to do.

We live in a huge urban redevelopment project. Thanks to the attraction of new urbanism, our neighborhood is absolutely full of children. In the last eight years we've built three elementary schools along with charters.

I did a count of the 1st grade classrooms in the neighborhood and I would estimate that in 1st grade we have approximately 400 kids, so 200 boys and the real bubble is actually the preschoolers. Of that 200, only 12 are tigers. In total there are probably over 1,000 boys eligible within the neighborhood and hundreds more in surrounding neighborhoods that don't have packs.

4 years ago we did not have a cub scout pack. This year we had 47 boys earn their rank advancement. We did a couple join nights and had over 30 kids interested and my assumption is we'll have far more in the fall. There is really no reason that we couldn't recruit 200+ boys if we had the infrastructure.

I want to bring scouting to as many boys as possible, so its my goal to clear the roadblocks.

As you can imagine, the trick with this rapid growth is recruiting and training a group of leaders that grows significantly each year. The other trick that I just heard from the DE is that the council will fight us to split the pack if we have over 100 boys. In theory, I completely agree with not wanting a pack to be over 100. At the same time, I'm worried that we've been growing so fast that if we split the quality of the units will really suffer because so few leaders with experience will go to each one. I'd rather split based on having a plan than on a number based trigger. My guess is that's a 2 year process, but we could easily have 150 kids at that point.

Also, like many new neighborhoods we don't have established service clubs or churches in the neighborhood, so we'll have to really search for CO's.

So a few questions:

Has anyone had experience with a really large pack? How many kids? How did it function?

Has anyone been in a unit that had a successful split?

Is there an official policy on max unit size?

Can a CO have more than one pack?

If we get to 100 boys, should we really be thinking 3 packs and then be able to serve even more kids? There is a logic about one in each school.

When I was a cub we only had three grades in the pack, so naturally packs should be bigger now with five grades. Has anyone been around long enough to contrast that?

Even if it turns out that you're better off finding an altogether new unit, you need to report it to the CO and the SE. When people are this out of line, they need to be taken out of scouting. Don't worry about the lack of cubmaster, any situation would be better than the current one.

Generally I wear one set of clothes and pack the other. I'd bring a wool or fleece sweater and a rain jacket. I don't do long pants unless it will be frigid, just go to bed when it gets cold.

I've done some AT in Georgia when we were there.

For only 6 days check the weather forecast and you may be able to save some weight.

I'll tell you that I like my higher-end gear for backpacks, sleeping bags and tents. But for clothes, I just grab whatever t-shirts, shorts, underwear and socks are clean. Don't care much about the technical side other than obvious stuff that would get in the way of pack belts and straps.

Hi, I'd like to help but need more info. Is this a BSA council camp? Are you the sole camp or one of several? If you're a council camp, where are the troops from your council going instead and why are they going?

If as you describe, you have a great facility and a great staff, I'm curious what is not so great? You said lack of QC. Besides the lack of high adventure, do you have some other competitor, lack of scouts, difficult to get to, bad reputation?

Don't be afraid of giving too much information, saves guessing.

I'm starting a couple of these for debate. These are the existing requirements for Tenderfoot, but what should they really be? Add, subtract or a total rewrite?

Tenderfoot Rank Requirements:

Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it.

Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.

On the campout, assist in preparing and cooking one of your patrol's meals. Tell why it is important for each patrol member to share in meal preparation and cleanup, and explain the importance of eating together.

a. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope.

b. Demonstrate that you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch.

c. Using the EDGE method, teach another person how to tie the square knot.

Explain the rules of safe hiking, both on the highway and cross-country, during the day and at night. Explain what to do if you are lost.

Demonstrate how to display, raise, lower, and fold the American flag.

Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath, Law, motto, and slogan.

Know your patrol name, give the patrol yell, and describe your patrol flag.

Explain the importance of the buddy system as it relates to your personal safety on outings and in your neighborhood. Describe what a bully is and how you should respond to one.

a. Record your best in the following tests:

Skill Current After 30 days

Push Ups __________ __________

Pull Ups __________ __________

Sit Ups __________ __________

Standing Long Jump __________ __________

1/4mile walk/run __________ __________

b. Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days.

Identify local poisonous plants; tell how to treat for exposure to them.

a. Demonstrate how to care for someone who is choking.

b. Show first aid for the following:

- Simple cuts and scrapes

- Blisters on the hand and foot

- Minor (thermal/heat) burns or scalds (superficial, or first degree)

- Bites or stings of insects and ticks

- Venomous snakebite

- Nosebleed

- Frostbite and sunburn

Demonstrate Scout Spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your everyday life. Discuss four specific examples of how you have lived the points of the Scout Law in your daily life.

Participate in a Scoutmaster conference.

Complete your board of review

I have an idea for a series of fun debates. I'm going to post the requirements for an existing adult or boy award/rank/badge and then we can rewrite them based on our individual preferences. I'm about to be cubmaster, so I'm curious what people think makes a great cubmaster and thus a great knot.

Award Requirements:

Tenure: Serve as a registered assistant Cubmaster for one year and a registered Cubmaster for one year, or serve as a registered Cubmaster for two years.

Training:

Complete Cubmaster Fast Start training.

Complete This Is Scouting and Cubmaster Specific Training.

Complete Youth Protection training.

During each year of tenure for this award, participate in a Cub Scout Leader pow wow or university of Scouting, or attend at least four roundtables.

Performance:

As a Cubmaster or assistant Cubmaster in a pack, earn the national Quality Unit Award at least twice.

Earn the National Summertime Pack Award at least once. Plan and conduct pack meetings during each year registered as Cubmaster. Keep track of your progress in earning the Cubmaster Award with this progress record document.

Great recruiting method Kudu.

I'd agree. No need for two patrols or any troop leader jobs. With 10 kids, you'll have campouts with 6 kids, no need to over think.

Somehow I ended up in the wrong thread, multiple windows open. Good luck with attendance.(This message has been edited by Cito)

I'm in Denver. Hadn't heard about this but if I hear more through the grapevine, I'll share.

Looks like the unit number is incorporating the council camp brands. Not my district so I haven't seen it before.

There was a pack in the suburbs a few years ago that lost a bunch of money to a committee chair just outright stealing it. Makes me sick.

When I was in high school, a few of us founded a high adventure explorer post. What has really evolved into the venturing program. We camped almost every month and had a good time. Three of us became Philmont staff and the other founder got a degree in outdoor education.

Now, with that said, we were only moderately successful as a scout unit. It was truly youth led, heck it was youth founded, but that meant when when the founders went to college it collapsed. We likely had members who werent registered and never did anything for council or district type events. We just went camping and invited our friends. We used scout camps and the core were former boy scouts and sisters of boy scouts.

So, if I were to take something away now as an adult, its this. Let it be low key and youth led. Provide the adults to have leadership for the campouts because camping is why they join. At the same time, make sure that younger siblings and their friends are invited to keep it alive.

I was also an advisor for an Explorer post in college. (OU) Similar story, very co-ed, very low key, lots of camping. They also had parties, which functioned as join nights. Invite some friends to hang out and talk about next months camping. Then they want to come, then they go on a campouts, then they commit.

Just don't talk about popcorn. The adults job is to keep the boring stuff out of sight from the youth. They just want to hang out with other kids.

Sure, the lack of real scouting background certainly makes it trickier. In the end, fill out the resume and list your assets. Like any job. I don't know the entire backstory, but the high adventure bases employ people without long scouting resumes. Some people come into scouting as adults and that's great. We need quality people at all ages and I'd agree with BD that you should improve your skills to be the best guide you can be.

My wife, (girlfriend at the time) worked three summers at Philmont. When she came into it, her outdoor resume was largely the backpacking, camping, climbing and canoeing that I'd brought her into. I trust her to belay me and she wanted a rock climbing job. I wrote a letter of introduction to the assistant director of program and she got a job at cito that summer. Two summers later she was the head rock climber.

Another thought is that most camps have staff alumni groups, you could ask them.

Getting that job is likely similar to getting a job at Philmont. If I can persuade you, apply for a Philmont ranger, backcountry or conservation job as well.

Apply early and reach out in person to whoever is the professional in charge of hiring.

A great scouting resume really helps. It's too late to start now, but list how you're familiar and associated with scouting.

Get letters of recommendation from someone else who has worked there, your DE, some Scouters, etc. Stack the deck as much as you can.

Nice work CP, you nailed it.

Engineer61, I'm sure the Cosby skit was in my subconscious. For the record, I haven't met anyone here to the best of my knowledge. But let me know if you're ever in Denver.

I notice that there is a fair degree of familiarity on the forum. I'm sure a lot of it is through the forum, but I'm curious who of this group you've met in person?

This thread is so old that EagleScout13 was named Webelos10 when it started.