Cito

People say all kids of useless things on facebook. Focus on what you are doing and people will figure it out.

If the domestic violence arrests/convictions are real and verifiable, then you need to march right over to the council office and get someone on it. There is no place for that in scouting.

If its just a rumor without substance, then ignore him and focus on making your cub scout pack the best that it can be. Its about the scouts.

I think my original idea was that the time frames at two months apiece were really short anyway. So I don't think they were holding anyone back from rapid advancement. I'll have to dig out my handbook and skill award pamphlets and take a look at how they compare to the current requirements.

I seem to remember a lot of the boys finishing FC in under a year, I know that I did. Perhaps there are other pieces that dictate the timeline now, and it sounds like camping is one of those. If there isn't really a practical way to do it in under six months, then that explains why they eliminated the time frames.

The BSA still likes the carbon copy form. The troop should have them. You need to fill one out and give it to the unit so they can decide if they want to sign it and turn it in to the Council. There is also a small fee which I don't remember (our unit pays it for adults)

ScoutNut,

A valid question. I am not currently on the roundtable staff with my time being tied into the Cub pack. I'd love to take it on, but that might put me into the thread on burnout.

Why I ask is that I've been approached by the DE for suggestions because the round table is stagnant and I'm generally good at problem solving and creative thinking. I'm also clear that I want to make decisions based on what brings the best program to the most boys and that's my motive.

I don't want to cast any of the commissioners in a bad light and I am in no position to insult the job that they are doing. What I was stating is that I see them come to roundtable and then hang out in a group. I think that a high percentage of the room is sporting 15 knots, 6 pins, 5 ribbons, woodbadge necker and beads, an OA sash and hanging out with their group and that may not be totally inviting to the new den leader. If they were to scatter out in the room and each bring a new unit leader, I think that would be more useful than occupying a couple tables in the back.

I see the same thing in my professional society and its intimidating to new people, especially to someone who is new to the whole program.

In any case, this all gives me something to think about and to approach the various professionals and commissioners on what will bring in and keep the most volunteers coming to roundtable. Thanks

I guess I'd have to separate the two issues slightly.

On the one hand we can have a referendum on the BSA's actuarial tables. I'm also not a fan, but to make it work, I got myself under the maximum, because there really was no choice. I do agree with the idea of some maximums though as I remember plenty of Phil-Sars and several people dying at Philmont. Not what anyone expects when they head off on their trek.

To me, the bigger issue is just the general integration of physical fitness and self improvement into scouting. From what I've read on this thread, its something that many of us are concerned with, whether or not we want to be shown a chart. Everyone has their own challenges, but being able to backpack, climb a rock, swim, row a canoe or ride a bike helps make scouting great.

I like the concept of a council or a unit 5K, if anyone has seen an example, please add it to the thread.

I have a friend who ran the Boston marathon a few years ago in his scout shirt.

I've been in troops where patrols are regularly changed and one where they'd had the same patrols as long as anyone could remember. I like continuity, but since this is the first round, let them pick and decide on the need for change when there is a need.

Not sure how it works with AHG, but the BSA has a large number of stock patrol patches, so they tend to be the most common for patrols with a few modifiers.

There was a time when the flying eagle patrol patch looked like a banana with wings, so our troop had a "Flying Banana" patrol.

Yes Eagle 732, agreed, I almost named the thread "Scout Law - Points 3-6" but didn't want to be too condescending.

I do appreciate the lively discussion and its great that people are so passionate about improving Scouting.

I became a scout in 1987 and we had the 2 month time requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class. I just realized that they have eliminated those even though they still have minimum time frames at Star, Life and Eagle.

What was the history there? Two months isn't exactly a long time frame. I'd imagine that very few kids can go faster than 6 months, so what was the point?

What's the average time frame for these first few ranks in your troops?

I do want to stir up discussion, and I'm not worried about myself. In fact I started this thread so I get to take on everyone at once. Not really, but if it comes to it.

The original point of my thread was that I notice a fair number of people post less than five times, get a big thread that goes really sideways and then they never post again. Maybe they got their answer and they were done, maybe they got buried by some of the responses.

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I think my original question was basically what topics will immediately get negative reactions. Then it became a referendum on why don't I want to argue.

In any case, you're stuck with me. I'm a contrarion and a devil's advocate so I'll do what I can to make it more interesting. I will try to help the new posters get the answer they were looking for and argue where necessary.

My big motivation for losing weight was high adventure scouting and wanting to be able to keep up with my kids for the next 20+ years.

I'll tell you what I did that helped and maybe there is a version of it that can translate to your group of scouters.

I had set a goal to lose about 40 pounds before woodbadge in August. Its at Philmont, so we all have to meet the BSA's BMI chart. I went ahead and paid, figuring that it forces me to lose the weight or lose the money.

I brought up my desire to lose weight at work and suddenly had about four more people in the room open up that they had the same goal. Then I emailed it out and got four more volunteers. So we set it up as a challenge with a weekly percentage lost report. In the course of 16 weeks, people reported from 5-16% weight loss. I met my goal and am now pushing past it.

As an office, several people also ran a 5K and we're now planning a 14'er climb in late summer.

So, long story short, if you can get a culture of competition associated with weight loss, and a physically demanding campout on the horizon, you may be more successful.

An SPL tasked with tracking bowel movements. That deserves its own thread. Any kid who does that for his POR truly earns his next rank. In fact he'd probably become a real fan of the patrol method and putting PL's in charge at 300' in a real hurry.

In any case, its good to see a sense of humor in the thread. I'm certainly not worried about stirring the pot, just want to make sure people want to ask questions. Keeps it far more interesting.

If its not a genuine OA event, leave the sash at home.

There's a Scouter who I always see around here wearing his OA sash and his SB and ten pins on his shirt, but for some reason he can't wear scout pants. It takes all kinds.

It's important to spread the responsibility and to actually prevent people from volunteering for too many positions. Better to recruit more people, even if they don't do quite as good a job, rather than letting one person do everything until they burn out.

I think I was generally positive.

In any case, my concern is that it's a club with no purpose besides being a club. Kinda opens the door for a DAM club and a Vigil club, etc. If it does more good then more power to you.

Do you have some specific councils and examples of what theyve done from your research?

Sorry, I only used fat in a historical context. Of course it all sounds better than the fun BMI chart insult where half the population is "obese".

Whatever we call it, I'm hoping that as a group, we can all strive to improve our healthy and the image of scouts as a physically fit group.

When I worked at Philmont it was pre-weight limits and we referred to the large ones as "fat advisors". You really hoped that you didn't have to help carry one off Mount Phillips and they were the ones most likely to have a heart attack.

I live in a very fit place (Denver) and yet when I go to scouting events there are a large percentage of the crowd that is heavier than the general population. Scouting actually takes a degree of physical fitness which makes it suprising. Its pretty clear in the Scout Oath that we're supposed to be physically strong and I've personally taken that to heart and lost a fair amount of weight to better myself.

What do you guys think about the weight of adults in scouting and if its an issue?

Yes, I should have mentioned that half the boring presentation is just announcements.

I'd like to have a place that I could bring new leaders to, but I think if I brought them to this, that would kill their enthusiasm faster than anything.

In the basement, in a box from the 80's, where it belongs.

I spent the last worthless roundtable outside with one of the DE's brainstorming how to make one that doesn't suck. I think our biggest problems are commissioners who just show up as a social club, low attendance and BORING presentations. Also, ours groups all levels for half and then cub leaders and boy scout leaders go their own ways. No venturing leaders to speak of. Not sure if that is typical.

What makes for a great and useful roundtable? I don't have time to spearhead it, so mostly I'm stuck just making suggestions. Hopefully we can also find a great champion for it.

I do have a red beret from my 1987 era scouting. I haven't worn it in 24 years if that means anything.

I've also figured out to not mention how old I was when I finished Eagle.

Sure, there is no telling where threads go, but there are certain topics that are doomed from the word go.

Not sure of the Tea Party reference? Want to clarify what you're inferring?

While I've only been able to contribute for a few weeks, I've been reading the forum for nearly a year. I've noticed that there are clearly several topics that if you bring them up, you'll be sorry.

The biggest ones that I see are anything to do with knots or adult recognition, troop over patrol, then maybe wood badge and anything praising National.

So, I'll just come out and ask, what subjects are people better off not asking about..?

Sorry, that did sound like I was building a spreadsheet.

To simplify, how much time do you typically see tied up in setting up and breaking down for a week long camp vs a weekend camp. Is it different or do you want your scouts to treat them the same?

Good stuff basementdweller. People tend to get too hung up on formal programs and formal recognitions. Just get out of town and go camping.