Chippewa29

When Scouts cross over in February/March, they have a much better chance of sticking with the program. When we've had kids cross over in May/June, they say they can't come to the meetings or campouts until the end of June because of baseball. Then, they have family vacations in July and August. By the time school starts back up in September, they have missed a lot of great Scouting time and lost interest. The BSA shifted the crossover from May to February so the new Scouts would be able to get several campouts underneath their belts before heading up to summer camp for a week.

Yes, the adults could probably put together a better program if they did it themselves. However, the Scouts need to learn how to put together a program. One thing that the Scouts need to realize is that things won't always be perfect and that at times the program may not be as "fun" as they want because it is a learning experience. Some guidance helps, but you have to be careful not to let the kids use the adults as a "crutch" so they don't have to put in effort. Adults can have input, but be careful about them taking over. As far as a "junk" campout, my troop used to do something they called the "relaxation" campout. Basically, they'd set up camp and lay around and do nothing all weekend. The older Scouts loved it. They go up when they wanted, ate when they felt like it, went to bed when they wanted, etc. The younger kids got bored very quickly. My attitude is this: If they just want to lay around and eat junk food and play with their Gameboys, they can stay home. I do believe that you should schedule some "free" or "rest" time on Saturday so the kids can relax or goof around. However, we only do one outdoor activity a month. Make it worthwhile.

When doing a troop fundraiser, allow the boys to share in the profits. My troop has a deal where the Scouts participating have a portion of the profits earmarked for them in the troop account. For example, if a Scout brings in $200 profit for the troop from the popcorn sales, then he gets $100 credited to his account. He can use it to pay for campouts, dues, etc. Also, if he goes out and buys a Scout-related item (flashlight, mess kit, etc.), he can take the receipt and get reimbursed for it. My troop just did a can and bottle drive the weekend after New Years and six Scouts collected over $600 worth of bottles in a few hours. This money is going toward new tents, but another troop could tell the kids that they get a certain amount of the money for their events.

Congrats on the honor! I tend to hold my Vigil in higher esteem than my Eagle Award because it is based completely on your service to others and you must be recognized by your peers for it rather than having a set of requirements you can do on your own. Both are great honors and I'm actually surprised that you hadn't already received the Vigil. You seem like you give quite a bit of yourself in serving others.

I'm trying to shift more of our troop responsibilities from the adults to the Scouts. Recently, as in the past, our committee chair handed out permission slips for our next two outings. It had most of the information filled in and said to return the payment to the troop secretary by a certain date. Usually, the permission slips get handed out at committee meetings (to the parents) and the money is collected by the committee secretary or treasurer, with the Scouts not being involved at all. When I was a Scout, the Scoutmaster always handed out the permission slips to us and we went home, got our parents to sign them and give us money to turn in (usually our patrol leader) at the assigned date. When I've mentioned things like that in the past, some of the parents say that if we gave the permission slips to the Scouts, the slip would never make it home and the parents would never know what was going on. What do other troops do as far as administrative functions in regards to whether the adults or Scouts can handle them?

Although it is too late for the original post, I'll pass along an idea. My troop is having a holiday party on Monday, December 23. The PLC decided to have a meeting even though many of the adult committee members wanted "a break". Instead of a normal troop meeting, the Scouts are making holiday treats and coming up with games for the holiday. One of the Scouts is Jewish and making a traditional Hannukah dessert and teaching the other kids a game. We are hoping the other Scouts do similar things. Instead of just having cookies or whatever, we're hoping the Scouts come up with some different ethnic holiday treats so they actually learn something while having fun.

What is everyone out there thanful for? I, for one, am thankful that I have the opportunity to serve other people and help them fulfill their dreams.

I once asked the SM of a very large and successful troop in our area (80 plus Scouts for over 20 years) what they did at their troop meetings that helped them. He said their meetings were kind of boring and that he never had a kid join for the meetings. They joined for the outdoor program (1-2 activities a month). I'm not sure if the Scout Handbook still says this, but it used to say, "You'll learn more in a couple days in camp than you will in months of troop meetings".

The adults in my troop had an interesting discussion tonight. In our troop, we have more than enough tents to put two Scouts per tent. We use the Eureka Timberline 4 man tents (they vary in age from 3-14 years). One of the dads was upset because I told his son this past weekend that he couldn't use his own tent and that he needed to use the troop one. The Scout doesn't like how he can't stand up in the Eureka tents. Our troop tents aren't brand new, but they are in solid shape. My feeling is that if the troop has enough tents, then the Scouts should all use the troop tents. Could you please give me some feedback on what other troops do about this. I've heard it go both ways. Most troops use troop tents, but I've seen a couple troops that were in money areas where everyone brought their own tent.

The troop 100% African-American, sponsored to a Baptist church. The pastor wanted to start a Scout troop (they already have a Girl Scout Troop) and asked my friend (an Eagle Scout) to get it rolling. Most of the kids are from single parent homes and many are living with grandparents. I'm sure I'll find out more tomorrow. At this point, they have been on one campout and the kids had a blast. My friend is trying hard to figure out how the "Scout Way" to do things is. He is also in need of some moral support. I'm going to see what I can do to help him tomorrow. I won't be able to help out much (I'm pretty swamped as it is), but I'll encourage him the best that I can.

An old college roommate of mine recently started a Scout troop at his church in a large city near where I live. I'm actually going to his troop meeting tomorrow to help him out. He's said that he is getting virtually no parental involvement and is basically playing babysitter for fifteen kids (they've grown tremendously in three months). He's looking to go to training when his district offers it and is trying to find help. Does anyone have any experience with urban Scouting so you can pass along a few tips? I know there are different challenges than what I am used to (we are a suburban troop whose only diversity is an Asian scout with white parents). Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

When I talk about equipment, I am referring to getting our troop trailer out to the campsite. The Scouts obviously can't pull a trailer behind a car. I'm currently training the new QM to keep track of the equipment and when we need something, to report it to troop committee so they can get the equipment replaced and/or repaired. What I envision for activities is having people specialize more in the jobs. They don't necessarily need to do them, but to work on them with the Scouts and make sure that particular task is done. We have a standard permission slip that must be filled out for events. Some events, it gets taken care of a few weeks ahead of time, other times it is done last minute. It all falls back on me if I don't find someone to take care of these tasks every single outing we go on (it is a pain to have to ask people constantly to do things). I'd rather have it where someone was in charge of making sure the permission slips were done each month so I wouldn't have to find someone each time. Ditto for some of the other stuff that needs to get done. I hope this is a little more clear.

In my troop, there are a few parents that want to divide the responsibilities of the troop in the following way. They volunteer to handle all details for one or two outings a year. You have 6-8 to people running things for different events. My feeling is that the responsibilities that need to be taken care of should be split on a task basis, meaning that someone is in charge of equipment, someone is in charge of paperwork, etc. How do other troops handle the division of responsibilities for the troop?

I've tried looking at the job descriptions for both, but I'm still confused. As we are all aware, the duties for a committee member and assistant scoutmaster tend to be somewhat vague. In the past, I've seen troops with either an outdoor activities chair (committee member) or an ASM-Outdoor Activities. For both of them, their job was to handle the paperwork for the outdoor activities (reservations, health forms, permission slips, tour permits, etc.) These seemed to be the same job to me and both put in roughly the same amount of time and committment. How do you determine whether that person's title is as part of the committee or if they are, as they used to call it, a "commissioned" Scouter, or ASM?

Here is the latest chapter in our saga... After talking to our DC, I had him come to our recent COH to give a quick speech on the different types of services available for the troop through the district (it was really a promotion for the adults to go to training, but that is what I wanted). While the DC was speaking, our ex-SM interrupted him several times to remind him not to "forget" anything. At the reception after the COH, the DC pulled our ex-SM aside and asked him to be an ADC (our district is in bad need of them). He had told me before he was going to do this. The DC said after talking to me, he felt the troop was in good hands but we were being held back by our ex-SM (he'd seen it in other troops many times before). Offering an ADC position to our ex-SM would get the DC some help and get him out of my way. We're hoping it works. By the way, two of the dads in the troop have indicated an interest in going to training after the DC spoke.

I wish I had thought of this a little while back. However, it does make sense. I'm going to work more on getting more decisions to the PLC (without having the committee to officially ok them). Also, our committee meetings are dreadfully long (1 1/2 hours plus) because instead of giving reports, every single item is discussed or taken care of right there. I've seen times where we've sat and waited for five minutes while someone fills out certain paperwork before we move on. Back when I was committee chair, our meetings lasted 45-60 minutes and we got a lot more done. I delegated most everything to be done and assumed it would be completed without having the committee review it time and again. I need to reed the committee guidebook again. One question. When it comes to disbursing funds for purchases, who does the approval for that?

As far as the two Scouts wanting to do everything together, that is natural. They are each other's security blanket for now. Eventually, they'll make other friends in the troop and be more inclusive (it will probably take several months). When I was a Scout, we had two kids come in from Webelos that were the same way. They always wanted to be together and do everything together. When we went to summer camp, they insisted on sharing a tent (fortunately, both of their dads were more than happy to stay in the adult area) and taking all of their merit badge classes together. Basically, they were together 24/7 for more than a day or so for the first time ever. By the end of the week, they were no longer speaking to each other. They became friends again, but both stayed in the troop and made many more friends over the years.

I had dinner with a Scottish troop while I was at the World Jamboree in early 1988. While they aren't used for everyday wear, many of them tend to use the kilts for ceremonial occasions, particularly when it is an international event. Last I heard on that was about the mid-90's.(This message has been edited by Chippewa29)

Another update. It looks like the majority of the troop is behind me on this. Pretty much everyone placed orders for t-shirts on Monday night and I've heard from a couple of parents (plus one alumnus who helps out a couple of times a year) that they think he was wrong on this. I also talk to our District Commissioner on the phone and he said that he's seen many SM's in the past who can't let go even though they wanted to give up the position. I'm going to talk with our former SM and if he doesn't agree to back off, I'm going to set up a meeting between him, myself, and the district commissioner (who already has agreed to it).

In addition to working with the Scouts, I also coach at a local high school. I deal with dozens of kids and their fitness is often a factor. The biggest barrier is kids (like adults) don't like to get out of their comfort zones. With all of the conveniences available today, kids never have to get uncomfortable or stretch themselves. Also, our society promotes instant gratification instead of delayed gratification. The poor fitness condition of many of our youth is because getting in good physical shape requires getting uncomfortable and delaying gratification for at least a few weeks (it takes at least that long for the body to physiologically adapt to exercise). In my troop recently, we had a Scout who conveniently had "something to do" the night we did tenderfoot fitness testing (he already had his tenderfoot, but we test the whole troop once a year). He didn't like to exercise (although he likes to be active) and tried to avoid having to get uncomfortable. A few weeks later, we went on a bike trip where the kids road twelve miles. He insisted on staying with his buddies (who are all pretty active) and had a very hard time finishing the ride. Later that night, he was feeling sick with a mild case of heat exhaustion (he was fine the next day). It was a big wakeup call for him, as he didn't realize that his fitness level had declined like that. I've seen many cases where parents sign notes excusing their kids from PE classes at school because of some physical "ailment". In almost all cases, that only makes the problem worse. I laugh every year when at the beginning of our season, there are a number of kids who have trouble completing a ten minute jog for a warmup. Most of them say "I can't do this because I have asthma". It is amazing how later in the season, many of them say "I can't believe how my asthma has gone away". They don't really have asthma. They are just out of shape. Tom Dolan, who won the 400 meter IM in swimming at the 1996 Olympics, not only had asthma, but also had a smaller than normal windpipe. He could bring in about 30% of the oxygen a "normal" person could. He had a double reason not to exercise. However, instead, he became one of the best athletes in the world. Physical fitness (one of the core values of Scouting) is something anyone can do. Not everyone is going to run a marathon, but I've seen people who were in wheelchairs do some type of exercise each day. Kids need to be active from an early age and sometimes need to be pushed so they get used to being uncomfortable. Getting uncomfortable is the only way they will get better. Nothing else will do it. Writing an excuse note or trying to waive requirements because a Scout has a hard time doing something harms the Scout long term. One more story before I sign off on this. There was a Scout I knew growing up that had arms that were only about a foot long and about as big around as a thumb (he had no hands). He got his Eagle award and had to have the swimming tests waived. However, he had them waived early in his Scouting career after making many attempts to complete the swimming requirements. He got his Eagle at fifteen and continued to work on his swimming skills. Although last I heard (I haven't seen him since we were in high school), he still couldn't do the lifesaving skills, but when we were seventeen, he managed to swim the 150 yard requirement needed for swimming merit badge using his legs almost exclusively. When he did that, people lost a lot of excuses as to why they couldn't do it.

Like was mentioned before, if he doesn't have a physical handicap that prevents him from swimming, then he should do the requirement in order to advance. If he is passed without actually doing the requirements, then he is actually just getting a rank and not really advancing. Struggling to pass that swim requirement may be the toughest thing the kid has ever had to do. It could also be the most rewarding. About ten years ago, we had a Scout that was very used to giving up very easy and was scared of the water. It took him all summer (he even lived on a lake) to pass the second class requirement. However, once he did, it gave him a shot in the arm and he didn't take long to get the first class requirement. That Scout didn't make it beyond first class, but he later said that passing the swimming requirement was a real turning point for him. I've had other Scouts say similar things about different requirements that were really tough for them.

At this time, my troop uses the standard BSA ballcap. When everyone wears it, it looks sharp. However, most of the kids don't like it and don't wear it. I've thought about proposing the idea to our PLC, but most of the troop hats I've seen around didn't really seem to go with the uniform. What has been other troop's experiences? I wouldn't mind a troop hat, but I'd like the uniform parts to match each other.

I understand what KS said about the beret. It isn't functional at all, but I loved how sharp it looks when worn correctly by a group. Four guys in my patrol for Adult Leader Training had berets and we all wore them for flag raising and looked great doing it. I also feel the same way about the field cap that was done away with in the early/mid-80's. My orignal troop wore those and it looked really cool when the whole troop was wearing the correct uniform with the field cap. Gave us a little more "professional" look than the baseball cap. Really high quality outdoor clothing (like Columbia) would be great. However, I'm afraid of how much the BSA would charge for it. I wouldn't mind seeing cords being used for SPL, PL, etc. like they are for den chiefs. Another wish is to get rid of the green/red socks and just go for white athletic socks for activities and plain black/blue for more formal occasions.

I do have good news. I just got an email from one of the parents in the troop and he sent a reply to everyone in the troop saying that he felt that one of the purposes of Scouting was to teach the kids responsibility and if they came up with a design that they didn't like, they needed to live with it. Also, he said he doesn't believe the parents own the troop. The kids do and the adults are there to support the kids program. I had gotten another email from one of our new moms saying she thought if the kids liked the design and there was nothing offensive about it, then there shouldn't be any need for the committee to approve it. I have a feeling that most of the parents in the troop will feel the same way. At least I hope.

OGE- It may have to come to a referendum on my leadership. A friend of mine that I went through the OA with as a youth has gone on to be Wood Badge trained, was a SM for a couple of years, has an MBA from Yale specializing in non-profit groups, and today is involved with a leadership training group in DC. He said that the troop committee is like the board of directors for any organization. They appoint the leader of the organization (along with the CO in the Boy Scouts case), then provide the support necessary for that leader's vision and direction. If they feel that the leader is not taking the troop in the right direction, then they have the right to remove that leader. I don't have any kids in the troop (I'm single and childless) and my only agenda is to see the troop built into a strong organization that places an emphasis on developing leaders using the Scouting program. If they feel like they want to go another direction, all they have to do is tell me, and I'll be more than happy to step aside. I'm currently the only adult in my troop that wears a uniform on a regular basis. As of right now, I have one ASM (who volunteered two months ago and makes constant excuses why he can't do this or that) and no one else wants to make that "huge committment" although we have a few adults that are at a majority of meetings, help out a lot on the side, and go on about half the campouts. They are just afraid "wear the uniform" or take on formal responsibilities. I'd hate to see my tenure as SM end, but if I'm going to have a troop committee that is constantly looking over my shoulder and letting me build the program so the Scouts run it, then I'll need to step down.