acco40

Bob White, I fully understand and accept the fact that the BSA does not ask WHAT we believe only that we DO believe so to speak. I have no problem with that requirement. I'm just stating that it is very difficult to get a good metric on what someone believes. Also, beliefs change over time. However, actions are much easier to measure. You can tell by the forum posts on this topic how decisive this issue is. We've got "defenders", "haters", etc. I find it very difficult in my work with Cubs, to put to much emphasis on religion and religious teachings. That is for the

I understand the BSA's position on religion, Scout Oath and being reverent. Personnally, I like to judge a man's character by his actions and not his beliefs. I can separate the two, others cannot. I think what troubles many is organizations that judge a person by their beliefs. I realize that they have a right to do so. Trying to really determine someone's beliefs is a risky business and smacks of "thought police" to some.

It is considered a sin to spell "sponsor" correctly? Somebody please inform the Pack 4567 webmaster.

Tj, How dare you talk with such reason! (Yes, that was said with tongue firmly in cheek.)

Hey Ed, Look up two posts! Don't you trust me?

Compass, Have some faith in your kids. Many people that they meet and respect may have a different value system than their own (or should I say yours). One of the beauties of Scouting is that it exposes my children to people of many different backgrounds.

Compass, Your are correct. The Boy Scout Oath requires that we respect the rights of others to practice their own beliefs. A subtle but important distinction.

OGE, Does the "three strikes and your out" rule apply to you? You only have to hit return once.

I agree Bob. I agree more than you can imagine. Mr. Lambert does not meet the qualifications of the BSA. What I believe you and Rooster and others may not understand is that if YOU do not respect Mr. Lambert's beliefs (you can respect them and still believe he should be denied membership as I do) YOU should be denied membership as well. To be a member of the BSA you are required to accept the value system of the BSA. One of the values of the BSA is to respect the beliefs of others. Do you respect Mr. Lambert's beliefs? I do. Rooster7 has stated that he does not.(This message has b

kwc57, I agree with you 100%. Well, not really. An atheist CAN be a Scout, witness, Mr. Lambert. An atheist MAY not be a Scout, witness the Scout Oath. My contention is that those who do not respect Mr. Lambert's beliefs MAY not be a Scout either because they do not respect the beliefs of others.

"I don't respect atheists." From the Meaning of the Boy Scout Oath (Boy Scout Handbook) . . . To do my duty to God . . . Your family and religious leaders teach you about God and the ways you can serve. You do your duty to God by following the wisdom of those teachings every day and by respecting and defending the rights of others to practice their own beliefs. To me, if you do not respect an atheist's beliefs, you do not follow the Boy Scout Oath.

This does not directly answer your question (or indirectly for that matter!). Our troop recently went to Mackinac Island and met a park range from Isle Royale. Her experience with BSA on the island was very negative, not very observant of LNT in her eyes. Of all of the campers who come to Isle Royale, the Scouts are the worst (her opinion). Please help to change that! Please educate your troop in Leave No Trace before you go! I just returned from a BSA camp and was appalled at all of the styrofoam, candy wrappers, pop cans, etc. all over. We need to do a better job in this area.

What to do about an organization that you really like, enjoy, and has merit but you do not believe in 100% of the tenets? Rooster, ASM7 & Bob White, do you respect and defend the rights of others to practice their own beliefs? (i.e. do you follow the Boy Scout Oath?) If so, what if those beliefs are atheism? Are you ignoring one third of the oath by not respecting this young mans beliefs? Rooster7, if you read the article closely, the young man skipped over parts of the oath & law so to accuse him of lying is a little harsh in my book. What I object to, is

One of the topics covered in the Wood Badge for the 21st Century course is dealing with change. It seems like many (as most people do) still have a difficult time dealing with change. P.S. Please no "Who Moved My Cheese" references. What is difficult in presenting training for Scout leaders is the tremendous spectrum of backgrounds that the leaders span. I've known Scouters with PhDs, MS, BS, high School diplomas and high school drop-outs. Trying to teach a course to that diverse mix can be very difficult.

Coweta, Oklahoma - Zip Code 74429 Indian Nations Council 3206 S. Peoria Tulsa, OK (918)-743-6125 www.okscouts.org

Reminds me of when I was in high school in the 70's. We had a smoking problem, students would congregate in the bathroom to smoke cigarettes. To stop this practice, the adminstration assigned each teacher a time period (between classes) to patrol the bathrooms. Needless to say, the teachers were not impressed and some started to wear arm bands with PP on them (Potty Patrol) in kind of a mock protest. The restroom patrols lasted all of one week.

If I can file my taxes (requires a signature), the capability to recharter online should not be to big of a hurdle.

WARNING WARNING WARNING If you die the ends of the rope, DO NOT make sure that the boys all have the color of rope in the same hand (i.e. red in left, blue in right). I am a left handed SM and Webelos Den Leader (no snide comments please). I don't make knots the same way as right handed people. I would suggest that the boys put the red end in their dominant hand, the blue in the other. Then instruct the boys. I can tie the knots very well, thank you very much, but when I instruct the boys I try to get them to visualize the knots and don't use left or right references. If

The proper name is the "Whittling Chip" card. When I bought mine they were five cents each. If you have a good printer go to: www.geocities.com/~pack215/whittlin-chip378x255.jpg I think it is legal to copy.

Fact: BSA allows female leaders. Fact: the CO can pick and choose the leaders of units they charter (with in BSA guidelines, i.e. age requirements, etc.). Fact: the boys can think or desire anything they want. Opinion (mine): The boys should have no say on who or who does not go on their camp outings. As for changing the rules, you can't have it both ways. If you join BSA, follow the rules. If you don't like the rules, feel free to challenge them (not violate them) any way you feel. The best way, IMO, is to work within the system for change. If the CO allows black leaders and the

The "boy led" phrase causes all types of consternation in Boy Scouts. BSA allows female Scouters. That is a fact. It is not something that the boys should have a say in at all. To say the WOMEN should find another troop is preposterous. If the boys don't like it, they should find another troop. In Scouts, it was not until 1965 that the first woman professional Scouter appeared. It was not until 1967 that the title Den Leader was recognized (was den mother). It was not until 1973 that the national Executive Board voted to allow women to serve as institutional representatives, Cub Sc

Simple solution, make the students police themselves. Declare that the restrooms will be open as soon as the students clean them. This is how society operates. Some drive recklessly so there are speed limits FOR ALL. The majority usually ends up paying for the mistakes and behavior of the few.

Simply put, Akela can sign off on all Cub requirements. It is explained in the book. For Cub Scouts in the Tiger, Wolf and Bear program, the scouts Akela may be a teacher, parent, den leader, grandparent, minister, etc. For Webelos Cub Scouts, in preparation for Boy Scouts, the den leader should sign off on all requirements. In my den I actually sign off on the requirements but nearly 100% of the time I take the parents word when I am told that the scout has done a requirement. More of the requirements are done in a den setting in the Webelos program, but not 100%. For Boy Scouts

Mike F, I agree with 99% of what you wrote. However, you have to ask the question, is the goal of the BSA to have the most efficiently run patrols with the best leaders or is it to teach leadership to the boys? I believe your emphasis is on the former, mine on the latter.

One of the things that our troop does is to try to leave as early as possible on Sunday morning as possible for ALL scouts. They do have school work after all. We leave it up to the discretion of the SM. For example to meet the requirement for a summer camp "patch", it was stated that the scout needed to attend the whole camp (Sunday afternoon - Saturday morning). A Scout asked if he could leave Friday evening (had a sporting event on Saturday). The SM gave him permission. We do it on a case by case basis.