Abel Magwitch

My district is full of unknown school units and very few traditional units. My district has no district commissioner, (haven't had one in over a year). The district chairman is unknown. Volunteers are not allowed to speak with him or email him personally. You must go through the DE or District Director and they will decide if your message will be delivered. To top this off, our district was again a quality district. I just found out that my Troop was a quality unit last year. Funny how that happened, we were never told. The District Director filled out our application for us, made up our goals and made us a quality unit without our knowledge. And so it goes with our small district with only 7 troops. Our pros do not care what so ever about the program or the kids. They are only concerned with making their membership quotas any way they can regardless if the actual district membership is so small.

Just do it. When the uniform police come after you and give you a ticket, just say thank you.

In other words, there is nothing stopping you. If it suits your needs, (better quality, less expensive, more comfortable) then do it.

Not everyone can afford the complete uniform. There are not always uniform exchanges in every district or council. As for the uniform police, well let's just say that Scouting needs people and there are some people that need Scouting.

I am going to take a guess here. Was there a change in a Scout's dates when he earned a rank? Were there new advancement reports generated and back dated? Or perhaps there were merit badge blue cards re-issued with different dates. Or maybe dates were changed in the Scout office computer.

Why don't you instead ask for the head Volunteer in charge of advancement as they make up the policies and procedures for advancement.

Does anyone know the oversees company names who makes the uniforms?

Hi Doc, you have presented a theory. I can tell you without a doubt that wasn't the situation in my council.

Here is the challenge to my fellow Scouters in the country:

If you keep your annual reports from year to year; and your council has a substantial LFL program; compare the LFL membership from year to year. There should be a steady gain in LFL membership every year. (In some cases, the LFL membership outnumbers the traditional membership totals).

When your council gets a new SE because your last SE retired or got a promotion, are there any serious drops in LFL membership on the first or second annual report with the new SE? You may be surprised at the numbers you find.

Now some councils are nice enough to post their annual reports online, some have archives going back a few years.

I am just curious if anybody else out there takes the time to actually check the membership numbers from year to year. I do.

Does anyone out there keep their copies of their council's annual reports?

Does anyone out there ever compare membership totals from year to year?

Does your council have a substantial learning for life program?

I have noticed some interesting membership fluctuations in my own council particularly in the learning for life program whenever the council gets a new SE

Doc Meyer, are you a pro or past pro?

My district committee was hand picked by the DE. No nominations needed. In fact, my district only has a key 2. The district chair knows nothing about scouting, just a person who has good business contacts. The district has not had a district commissioner for over a year. I think there is only a single unit commissioner.

The DE is controlling everything. The traditional unit count in the district is very low. The special program units (scoutreach, in school scouting, learning for life) is all the DE is concerned about.

Doc, you may come from a very good council that has not experienced any of the bad things that do happen in other councils. If that is the case, i envy you. But I truly understand basementdweller's situation. He is obvioulsy a part of a council like mine.

I can relate to basementdweller.

We just had our council annual dinner and meeting. I was surprized that our district made quality district. For the past year, the district has had a key 2, the DE and the District Chair.

There were no visits to units, yet we are a quality district. The volunteers have been told by the DE that they are forbidden to contact the district chair as he is only been on for a year and they do not want any volunteers scaring him off.

Yes, in my council, the DE can still fudge his way to quality district.

By the way, it is the middle of April. We re-chartered in December. District units still await their charters. Anyone else out there still waiting for their charters after 4 and a half months?

Actually, its false advertising that leads to fading support.

Its paying a fee for a promised program which is not delivered that leads to kids quitting.

I could go on.

BS-87, if you only knew what has been going on in my council for the past 30 years.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

83Eagle

You need to ask yourself just what does FOS cover and how does it directly benefit your unit. Ask yourself how your council has supported you over the past year.

In my council, there is listed on the FOS flyer "The true cost of scouting"

This is what my council has listed as costs. After reading all the so called costs, I made these observations: FOS is already conveniently built into the scouting program in my council as the volunteer is charged a fee for almost everything. Many times services are not rendered for the fees charged.

Volunteer and Staff Training Training for more than 1,000 volunteer leaders every year.

In my council, training is put on by volunteers and hosted at various sponsoring institutions at no cost to the council. Furthermore, there is always a $15 fee to attend training. Does this sound familiar?

Insurance Coverage To protect our volunteers, staff, members and property.

Isnt insurance is covered in a members registration fee? Do you not have the option to pay the council for additional optional insurance?

Support Staff for registration, typing publications, and program support.

Have you noticed that volunteers are being told to do more things on the internet like re-chartering and advancement? The volunteers are being burdened to do the data entry that was once done by the support staff.

Reference Publications and Resources Everything from program planning kits and Program helps to camping information books

I dont know about your council, but in mine you purchase these publications and planning kits at the Scout Store.

Administrative Needs Postage, computers and link-up to the National Computer System, copy machines, folding machines, print shop.

There is no longer a print shop in my council. The print shop was one of the first things our previous Council Executive got rid of to save money, yet it is still being listed on the FOS letter. Mailings could be folded and put into smaller envelopes to save postage, but many times mail is put in large, extra postage required envelopes. Many of the service center computers have been donated by big business.

Camp Equipment Tents, cooking equipment, camp vehicles, building repairs, canoes, equipment replacement and repair, and upkeep of your council camps.

(Tents? Troops supply their own tents in my council. As for the camp upkeep, the volunteers are always called upon, asking for free help and free supplies. At other times, the U.S. Navy Seabees, and other volunteers help maintain the camp at little or no cost. The scout office will even show volunteers paperwork that claims money has been spent on new rifles, yet it was written in an earlier council newsletter that the rifles were graciously donated. (Some pesky volunteers save their council newsletters.)

Recognitions For leaders who attend training, volunteer for special projects and help out in many roles throughout scouting.

There are always fees for training, fees to attend recognition dinners, fees to buy the awards etc. That is why the recognition dinners cost so much, funding is needed for the awards. The funding certainly does not come out of FOS. In my council, those who nominated someone for the award gets to purchase the award

Professional Staff Our full-time staff who work with volunteers to organize new units, manage fundraising programs, conduct trainings, work with membership recruitment, provide counseling and advice for your district, our camps, and programs.

Ask yourself who does the recruiting? Who organizes traditional units? Does not the volunteer who conducts training, recruits members, organizes units, runs camporees etc?

Service Center Utilities, insurance, repairs and care for your headquarters.

Our council service center got a makeover while a pool broke at camp and was simply filled in with dirt and the shower house razed. My Council has tapped into the natural resources at our council camp (logging, natural gas) yet the fees continue to rise.

Charter Fees For every Scouting youth, leader, and unit.

Who pays for your Charter fees? The council? Charter fees are paid for by the membership when they join.

Council Newsletter The council's bi-monthly is published so members know what is going on in scouting.

Our council newsletter is being printed at no cost to the council by a local printing firm. This was one of the reasons why the print shop was closed.

You should really ask yourself just how much the council supports your unit with FOS. Or do you find yourself paying fees upon fees to partake in a program that is run by volunteers.

http://www.bsaadoptaschool.org/

A new program on the horizon. Just heard about it today.

In my council, in school scouting made up 41% of the total traditional membership. Yet you never see these scouts.

Furthermore, the school district has its own policies.

Co-curricular and Extracurricular Activities

Activities must be open to all students, regardless of race, color, national origin, citizenship status, religion, sex, economic status, age or disability.

School Ceremonies and Observation/Patriotic Exercises

The school should avoid any activity, display or exhibit that promotes or gives its approval to religious matters.

Schools must be neutral in matters of religion. The District must show no preference for one religion over another and must refrain from the promotion of any religion. No pupil shall be required to participate in programs or meditations based upon moral, philosophical or patriotic themes if they are contrary to the religious convictions of the pupil or the pupils parent(s)/legal guardian(s). Teachers should also respect the fact that some individuals beliefs do not include religious observances.

Yet the BSA has its own policies which are contrary to the above school policies, yet they are allowed to set up shop within the schools.

The Boy Scouts have a policy on the declaration of Religious Principal:

From Bylaws of Boy Scouts of America, art. IX, 1, cl. 1- [The Boy Scouts] policy is that the home and the organization with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

The Boy Scouts have a policy against homosexuality:

Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The conduct of youth members must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law, and membership in Boy Scouts of America is contingent upon the willingness to accept Scoutings values and beliefs.

The Boy Scouts do not allow girls to become members:

Teaching "Boys to Do Things for Themselves and Others" - According to Boy Scouts of Americas Charter The purpose of this corporation shall be to promote . . . the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues . . .

The Boy Scouts have age and grade requirements:

Cub Scouts - For boys in first grade through fifth grade (or seven through 10 years of age)

Boy Scouts - For boys who are 11 through 17 years of age, or have earned the Cub Scouting Arrow of Light award and are at least 10 years old, or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old

Venturing - For young men and women 14 (and have completed the eighth grade) through 20 years of age

These in school units are also open only to students going to that school. If Johnny is a member of the school and a member of the school Pack, and his next door neighbor friend Joey (who goes to another Catholic school) is not allowed to join Johnnys pack.

The PTA may be the sponsoring institution and the sponsoring institution is supposed to agree to provide a meeting place for the Scouts but unfortunately, the meeting place does not belong to the PTA nor is it owned by the PTA It belongs to the school district which is owned by the citizens and the school district has its own policies.

The main reason why I am against in school scouting is because my council generates some terrific membership numbers in the school. There are actually Packs with over 300 kids registered to them; Troops with over 150 kids registered. Im sorry, I have never actually seen a 300 kid Pack in my life.

Once strong troops, and packs were sponsored by churches in my city. But over the past 25 to 30 years, so many have simply died. Yet the public schools supposedly have over a third of the councils membership.

Baloney.

I know special programs Seattle. I have already done what you have suggested months ago. All the "troops" "packs" "crews" chartered by the "parents of" so and so school, the email is the council email.

There are quite a few units I have never heard of. And these are listed as tradional units.

Some of the sponsoring institutions are listed as a private person's home address.

I got a copy of a council printout showing the units of the council. Plenty of school units with 300 kids and no leaders. There is also a bunch of 5 kid units also with only 1 leader listed.

Everything written points to a phony phantom operation used to boost membership numbers.

Quite frankly, i am suprized that the BSA is still alloud in public schools at most public schools that I am aware of have their own policies against discrimination.

Insurance - I have brought this up before. Just try and find out what the insurance actually covers. Ask the council for information on the company they use and ask to see an actual policy. Good Luck.

My council supposedly has all kinds of school units. You never see them at any council or district activities. They are sometimes part of a district, sometimes listed as special programs.

A very sad reality BadenP. What a shame

Yes sherminator, indeed yes. I myself had a hard time wanting to believe at first. One does not want to hear that there are bad things going on in Scouting.

Thanks jhankins for saying how it is in some councils. What I find most troubling in my council is how oblivious people are and how much they cannot believe that the Boy Scouts could do corrupt things. They are truly fooled.

Blancmange, this situation is all but unknown. The council has made no mention of it what so ever and I am sure they want to keep it that way.

After all of the shenanigans that has happened in my council, I tend to check on things. I stumbled onto this while searching the court dockets. I have also found some convicted felons who are paraprofessionals those paid to be scoutmasters. It is public record, but generally, nobody is going to check on these things.

This lawsuit was filed soon after the previous SE got his promotion to national. The whole thing stinks.

I am intending to bring this issue up at the annual business meeting as I am a COR. I believe that one should know what's going on fiscally and legally within one's council especially when that council solicits funds from its members and parents.

(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

I have just learned that my state department of taxation has a judgement lien against my council. The council owes the state department of taxation $9937 dollars plus 5% interest from the original court date of November 2009. The council has simply made a deposit for now as the case is still active.

Of course I do not believe that the council told their recent James West recipients that their generous donations would be helping to pay for the court ruling against the council.

Beavah writes - "It would be so nice if we could break da corporate culture of the BSA and get it to focus on providin' service to the units, and evaluatin' the quality of that."

Now that would be something, evaluating the council's service to the units!

Why bother? Indeed, why bother - Once my troop found out that the former quality unit program was really a professional promotional program, we decided not to participate.

Under the old program, a DE was under pressure to ensure his units were quality units so the district could be a quality district. The SE wanted to make sure his districts were quality so his council could be a quality council. So he pressured his DE's.

Being a quality district or council of course leads to professional promotions, raises etc regardless of the actual quality of the council, district or units.

The troop I serve knows it is quality. We don't need to patch to wear on our sleeve to prove it.

Totally agree with sherminator. Also don't forget the last minute on the spur of the moment timing of the DD - Hi, thanks for inviting me to the ECOH. I know you want to start the COH in a few minutes, but before you begin, could I solicit FOS from your guests first?

There was no advance notice what so ever.

Houston, we have a problem.

I need to point out that this DD does not call in advance to ask - he usually askes at the COH 5 minutes before the COH begins. In fact, the SM who I saw turn him down, this DD wanted to know if he could have an FOS presentation right now.

Our last District Commissioner quit last year because of this DD and his tactics. Currently, our district officers look like this - we have a district chair (a judge who knows nothing about Scouting), a program chair, an advancement chair, and a training chair. That's it. There are no district vice chairs, no district commissioner, no membership chair, no roundtable chair, nobody else.

On a side note, one of our district's remaining troops is in its death throws. The troop only had 3 members left at the end of the year. But thanks to our DD, the troop was allowed to recharter for this year. The DD told the SM that he would take care of it by simply transfering some members (on paper) from another troop and register them with his troop. The remaining three atual members of this troop are turning 18 in the next few months. In essence, the troop will be dead, but not on paper.

I truly envy you Scouters who are part of good councils with good leadership (both professional and volunteer alike).(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)