Abel Magwitch

To OGE - yes it is a puzzlement to think that these volunteers have had obligatory training and some where knots on their uniforms that practically go over their shoulder.

I also see a mindset in the volunteer leaders that the professionals are in charge. And in my council, the professionals do in fact say that "they are in charge and they make the rules." They don't like the few oldtimers still around who remember what the program once was.

Having the chance to travel the country now and then, I have had fun visiting other troops from around the country and speaking with fellow volunteers. There are those whose councils' are obviously doing a fine job in serving the Scouts and their volunteer leaders. And I have found those volunteers whose horror stories about their professionals that are similar to what I find in my council.

Councils who are located in affluent parts of the country seem to be doing a far better job of serving this so called "volunteer" organization, while other councils in poorer parts of the country seem to be doing things only to benefit the professional staff in making their membership goals. I know it's hard for professionals to make their criticals in certain geographical areas where urban areas are especially hard to do traditional Scouting. Thus what I believe is the reason why some councils have been targeted for cheating on their membership numbers using LFL and other urban programs to simply get names of school kids and register them as members. The professionals in these situations are able to make their criticals, get their promotions yet the actual program suffers as there is no more money to fund the actual program. My council boasts of high membership numbers yet as a long time volunteer, I have witnessed the demise of over 40 Boy Scout Troops alone on my side of town over the past 30 years. The troops are dead yet the membership numbers remain high.

I have been told by many young professionals in my council that Scouting is a business. A business for whom? Those making salaries? It is not a business for me, a volunteer leader. I have yet to be paid for over 35 years of service as an adult leader though I do get a kick that in another district across town, the once volunteer leadership is now paid a stipend and the leaders at both unit and district level are called "paraprofessionals".

Yes, Scouting has changed a bit since the early 70's. It is my opinion and the opinion of many others that the change from being a volunteer run program for boys to a business practice started with Boy Power 76.

I am insulted when professionals and executive board members in my council continue to tell me that this is a volunteer movement, yet the volunteers have little say in anything.

Abel(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

It has always amazed me that there are those (both volunteers and professionals) who feel that they can deviate from the established written policies of the BSA. The very first advancement policy written in the Advancement Committee book states that no council, district, unit or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancement requirements. I have also verified this principle through conversations I have had with members of the national advancement task force. That is how the advancement program is to be run. If this first policy is ignored, then the rest of the advancement policies can easily become moot points.

Parents pay money for their Scouts to get the Scouting program. They pay money for their Scouts to go to summer camp. Parents pay troop dues etc. Yet many times (speaking for my own council) the Scouts do not get the promised program they have paid for because others feel that their advancement policies and procedures are better than what is already established by the national advancement committee.

Are there age requirements for merit badges? The answer is no.

From the 2009 Boy Scout Requirement Book page 22:

Any Boy Scout may earn any merit badge at any time. You dont need to have had rank advancement to be eligible.

Yet in my council, the professional camp director told me that he makes the rules. He wrote this in our councils summer camp manual - It is important to have the Scouts review the available merit badges at camp and plan out their schedule for the week. Review each Scouts schedule to ensure they are eligible for the merit badge and meet all the age/rank requirements.

I would like to add these additional BSA advancement policies and procedures from the national website:

Question: What is the minimum age requirement for merit badge counselors?Answer: An individual must be at least 18 years of age to serve as a merit badge counselor.

Summer Camp Merit Badge Counselors The same qualifications and rules for merit badge counselors apply to council summer camp merit badge programs. All merit badge counselors must be at least 18 years of age. Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor.

I would also like to point out that my council also uses 15 year olds to counsel merit badges at summer camp while using the very few adult area directors hired to simply sign off on the merit badges at the end of the week without ever having worked with any of the Scouts.

In the end it is the Scouts who lose out when extra requirements are added by councils districts units and individuals.

It has always been customary for a Scoutmaster to guide his Scouts. If an eleven year old new Scout who has never shot a rifle before feels he wants to go for the rifle merit badge, the Scoutmaster can guide the young Scout explaining to him that the rifle badge is tough and the Scout may be spending all his time (and money) trying to score. The Scoutmaster can then suggest to the young Scout to go to open shoot instead to see what its like to shoot a firearm. That way the Scout can be encouraged to take advantage of the other programs at summer camp such as free swims, Eagle Quest, etc.

I have also been told by our professional staff that Scoutmasters cannot be counted on to do whats right.

I have a question off topic. I have been reading with interest some of the comments concerning how once a person becomes an SE, he is protected.

My own council has been having its share of scandal concerning membership. As far as the volunteer executive board is concerned, they are protecting those professionals who were involved with inflating the numbers. No professionals have been held accountable for cooking the books. In fact, they have all been promoted to higher positions.

Here is the question - why do you think the executive board is letting the former administration get away with the fraud? What is in it for the executive board? Who are they protecting - the corrupt professionals or their own reputations or both? The executive board instead of taking a stand against corruption instead worked hard to sweep things under the rug. There was one member of the board who did speak up. This was a 50 year veteran of Scouting and long time board member. He told me that nobody would stand with him. He was then dismissed from the board.

By the way, Jhankins - the audit team did come in as our council got a new SE last year. Membership dropped substantially as they apparently cleaned up things so that the new SE could have a clean slate. Even though the membership dropped by thousands, the 2009 annual report claimed gains in membership. The way this was accomplished was that the annual report numbers from two years ago were "adjusted". By changing (lowering) the numbers from the older annual report, council could then claim gains in membership when in actuality there were significant losses.

Here is a situation - I am a swimming merit badge counselor. I had a Scout call me saying he had a partial from summer camp. He needed to be signed off on one remaining requirement. The requirement happened to be number 3 - Before doing the following requirements, successfully complete Second Class rank requirements 7a-7c and First Class rank requirements 9a-9c.

That's how things are done at my council's summer camp.

I emailed national and just received a response:

We are currently experiencing problems with this course completing if you have Internet Explorer 8 on your pc. The only workaround we have at this time is to do a screen print and send it to the council so they can manually update your record on their end. I apologize for the inconvenience.

I remember an old saying concerning where the road paved with good intentions leads to.

Then quite frankly - shame on the BSA. If the BSA has to turn over the secret documents and it is found that they have committed libel, so be it. To me, these secret files are morally wrong for an organization that claims strong character and timeless values.

just my $.02

Has anyone had any problems taking safe swim defense online at myscouting.org? There seems to be a glitch for this training. When one completes the test, you are not given the green that you completed the training. You remain in the blue "in progress".

This is the only training so far that has not worked. Safety afloat works fine.

Eagle92 writes - Also there are some folks whose names are in the files due to hearsay and accusations. It could be damaging for them, even if they have done nothing wrong.

If the BSA has "secret" files on people based on hearsay and accusations, then the BSA takes a chance on libel.

Has the BSA dismissed volunteers because of hearsay? Have volunteers been dismissed without giving the person a reason why?

I say release the files. People should have the right to defend themselves if their good name, reputation and character are being challenged based on hearsay and accusations.

It all depends on the council and the scout executive. In my council, an active member of my district has been allowed to be a member. He is very active in the Cub Scouts. He is a Cub Master and also held the position last year of camping chair for the district. Council is well aware of his criminal record. He is a convicted felon - (guilty of two counts robbery, both 2nd degree felonies, and one count of safecracking, 3rd degree felony. According to the court docket, he was also charged with kidnapping, breaking and entering and theft but the judge nolled those charges. So I guess it all depends on the discretion of the Scout Executive.

Eamonn, it comes from the district nominating committee worksheet.

http://ricksnews.pushies.com/Documents/Nominating_Committee_Worksheet_14-33156.pdf

The district committee meets monthly. The annual meeting usually happens in January. Check my other post - a district without a committee for more details. Currently, the district has no valid committee since January of 2010. And considering that the prior committee's term ended at the end of the year, quite frankly there are no district Scouters currently registered. The district is being allowed to continue with no valid district committee. The politics of my council are a bit screwed up.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

Great post.

7. The members of the nominating committee will be identified to the district Scouters between 60 and 30 days prior to the annual district committee meeting so that suggestions may be given to them for consideration. (This information may be included in one formal notice of the annual meeting.)

The above comes from district nomination committee worksheet. Here is a question for interpretation. I can see how this could be interpreted several ways.

Concerning district Scouters

Are district Scouters defined as only the district officers, district members at large and COR's

or

Are district Scouters defined as all registered adult scouters in the district. The written policy is not specific for just those district committee members, district members at large, and district officers who are eligible to vote; it simply states all district Scouters.

If it is interpreted as the first definition, then the district nominations are only open to the current district committee. This could lead to the district being run by the same clique year after year. If it is interpreted as all volunteer leaders in the district, it would open the nomination process to the entire district.

Thoughts on this?

7. The members of the nominating committee will be identified to the district Scouters between 60 and 30 days prior to the annual district committee meeting so that suggestions may be given to them for consideration. (This information may be included in one formal notice of the annual meeting.)

The above comes from district nomination committee worksheet. Here is a question for interpretation. I can see how this could be interpreted several ways.

Concerning "district Scouters"

Are district Scouters defined as only the district officers, district members at large and COR's

or

Are district Scouters defined as all registered adult scouters in the district.

The written policy is not specific for just those district committee members, district members at large, and district officers who are eligible to vote; it simply states all district Scouters.

If it is interpreted as the first definition, then the district nominations are only open to the current committee. This could lead to the district being run by the same clique year after year. If it is interpreted as all volunteer leaders in the district, it would open the nomination process to the entire district.

Thoughts on this?

(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

Moosetracker - there have been some combined district activities. But consider this; there should be no need to have to combine in order to have activities. Combining means that the districts are too small. They should be combined. There should be no reason to have to have additional professional staff on the payroll if there are not enough units to make a functioning district. It is nothing but a waste of money. It's time to cut back so monies can be put back into the program for the kids rather into the pocketbooks of additional professionals that are not needed at this time.

Ahhh but that's the politics of the situation. Council says they cannot hire more than 8 to 10 adults to be on the summer camp staff to counsel merit badges (merit badge counselors must be 18 years or older). So instead they hire 15 and 16 year olds to do the actual merit badge counseling while having an adult area director sign off all the blue card at the end of the week whether the adult actually worked with the Scouts or not. But council does have money to hire additional professional staff to work 9 little districts instead of the 5 average size workable districts they had a few years ago.

Oh moosetracker, there is so much going on here in my council that would take up too much time to write about, but thanks for your input.

Abel

jhankins writes - What I'm really trying to say is: What matters most is the boys, if the council sees fit to make 10 new districts or get rid of 10 -- the boys won't really be affected.

On the contrary, it does affect the boys. Our district in its 7 year existence is so small, it has had -zero- Boy Scout activities. None what so ever. With only 7 troops, there have been no camporees, no klondike derbies etc.

When our troop has an Eagle, our tradition has been to ask the Scout who he would like to present him with the Eagle. What person does that Scout look to with esteem or had made an impact on the Scout personally. We have had principals, teachers, Grandpa's. That person hands the Eagle badge to the boy's mother to pin on.

I remember long ago, one of our Eagles wanted Neil Armstrong to present him his Eagle. Though Mr. Armstrong could not make it, he sent a beautiful autographed pic as well as some other one of a kind things for the Scout.

That's our tradition.

Scoutnut, I have to disagree - the units are very aware of what's going on. The District Commissioner (the last true member of the key3) resigned several weeks ago. Told me he was tired of getting lied to by the DE. There are no unit commissioners to speak of.

The Council VP of district operations is now involved at my insistance. Again, there was time for things to be done correctly. Unfortunately, the director of field service had other plans. By the way, my district is part of the actual city. Urban scouting is now the main drive in the city. Learning for Life, In-School Scouting, paraprofessionals (paid Scoutmasters and Cubmasters). That is where the emphesis is being focused. The remaining "traditional" units in the district are being neglected. We seem to be more of a hinderance in the council's plans of increasing membership numbers through non-traditinal Scouting.

25 years ago, there were over 40 Troops on the west side of the city. Today there are only 7.

merging with another district. Yes that was actually announced. My current district is too small. Only 7 troops, over a dozen packs a few venture crews and ships. In the 7 years of its existance, there has not been one boy scout activity; not enough troops. The previous council exec decided when he came 7 years ago was to go from 5 districts to 9. But the districts became too small.

There was word that we were going to merge with the district next door. But that district protested and did not want to merge with a city district. So here we are going to have our district business meeting 6 months into the charter year.

Abel

I don't know. Nobody wants to answer the question. I have made contact with one of the council vice presidents. Supposed to have a meeting with him in the near future.

I didn't think anyone out there ever heard of such a fiasco. I do forsee a council merger on the horizon though. Things ought to be getting interesting this summer.

Abel

Has anyone out there experienced this?

In a nutshell, our district charter year ends at the end of December. Our district annual meeting has been held the first week of January. But this year, it did not happen.

Our former district chair supposedly sent her district nominating committee suggestions to the council president back in September of 2009 to the council president for his approval. This was in line with the district nominations procedures.

October, and November went by. In December, I emailed the DC asking why there has been no announcement of the upcoming district annual meeting. I also wanted to know who the nominating committee was. (They are supposed to be identified to district scouters 60 to 30 days before the annual meeting.)

The response came as an email from the DC that her term was up and that nominations for the district committee could be made to the DE and one of the council VPs through the DE.

Turns out that apparently the DC nominating committee suggestions never got to the council president. Instead, the director of field service decided to disapprove the list.

There was no district annual meeting in January.

Since then the DFS assigned our district with another DE. He just announced that we would be having the district annual meeting on May 3, 2010. This notice just got sent out on April 8.

I contacted the council VP and let him know that none of the procedures for district committee nominations and elections has been carried out.

So currently, my district has no district committee as all of their terms ended in January along with the district chair. The VP agreed and I just received an email from the DE stating that the business meeting has been postponed until June 14, 2010.

So quite frankly, units within the districts geographical boundaries are technically Lone units not being served by any volunteer committee and won't have one until 6 months after the beginning of the charter year.

Anyone else out there ever hear of such a debacle?

Abel, COR

no matter how it "Should" be..

Your district sounds a lot like my district. It is already April and my district still has not had their business meeting (It happens in December).

The past District Chair finished her tenure in December and there has been nobody to replace her (the district did not have a vice chair).

Turns out that her chosen nominiating committee never got sent to the council president for approval. Instead is was not accepted by the Director of Field Service. So at the end of the year, the DC stepped down as her tenure was up. In the meantime, our DE was transferred to another district in January and the Field Director is now standing in as DE. He has finally announced that we will have our district business meeting next month in May. He has been informed by our district commissioner that there are procedures that are supposed to be followed and asked him if the COR's would be notified of who the nominating committee will be etc. His response was the vote for the new district committee should take only a minute.

In my council, the professionals are running the program. It is they who choose their executive board, not the other way around - as it should be.

Total snafu.

For my other fellow Scouters who are part of good councils that are functional, my hats off to you. But there are in fact some very dysfunctional councils out there. I can relate to moosetracker's situation.

Able

(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)