BetterWithCheddar

Well, my den meeting bombed. I should have come here sooner for feedback. I appreciate the replies.

For context, this was a Tiger Den with 5 of 6 Scouts returning from Lions and one new Scout who joined in 1st Grade.

We were able to cover the Cub Scout sign, salute, and motto quickly. I had the kids repeat the Scout Oath twice, but did not require them to memorize it. Then I had a breakout session for Scouts and their parents. I wrote each point of the Scout Law on an index card, placed them in a popcorn tin, and had the Scouts choose 2 index cards from the jar to discuss briefly with their parents. Then we reconvened and had them share what they learned.

My biggest challenge was getting them to sit still and pay attention. They were a squirrely bunch. My own son was probably the worst offender. He and I attended an outdoor District event together last weekend and he was as well-behaved as any Scout there. But put him in a small room on a weeknight with a few of his peers - all bets are off. I need to think of some different approaches for promoting good conduct before the next Den meeting.

For the fun part of our 45-minute meeting, I arrived early and used painters' tape to make a giant "Sorry" boardgame. I bought a large foam dice and let the Scouts play the game as if they were the markers. (moving from one end of the board to the other). Unfortunately, they had a hard time staying still on the spaces they landed, which lead to confusion. There were also some hurt feelin gs over being "sorried" and sent back to the beginning. So I went 0 for 2 on the night. 😟

On 10/18/2023 at 12:07 PM, Armymutt said:

One of the things our council usually has as part of the fall Spookoree is a "Bobcat Trail".  The kids needing Bobcat go to it and get the requirements completed.  I haven't seen how they do it, but I bet that a little walking through the woods with various stations set up would work well.  Stick an index card with a requirement on it in a tree or under a rock for the kids to find.  I'd have the parents do the Protect your children from child abuse at home.

I love the Bobcat Trail suggestion. If the kids had to burn a little energy walking from station to station, I think it would cut down on the squirrely-ness.

I did find a nice PDF of the Bobcat Badge requirements, which I sent home with the parents and asked them to cover the YP portion at home. 

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

Some of us find it patently immoral to shirk the teaching of marketing, salesmanship and service industry to our youth.

I find marking up popcorn by 300% to be immoral. I'd prefer to teach my son salesmanship with a box of $2 candy bars.

I'm hoping to crowd-source some tips for leading a successful Tiger Den Meeting where the primary focus is on earning the Bobcat Badge.

I know the kids are excited to earn some recognition (let's be honest, badges are cooler than loops and pins 🙂); however, I'm fearful of our Den meeting turning into "night school." The Bobcat Badge requirements don't lend themselves to the "learn by doing" philosophy as easily as most adventure loops. How can I keep the Scouts engaged and avoid delivering a lecture?

56 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Glad someone is being successful. The packs I have talked to are having issues with recruiting. Lot of folks cannot afford the $140 fee that national and council is charging.

Our Pack hosted a recruitment event a few weeks ago and I'm so glad no parents asked me about how the $100+ membership fee is used. I didn't want to have to explain it funds a bureaucracy that has little or nothing to do with the experience your child will have in Scouting this year ... figured that'd be a bit off-putting.

On 10/5/2023 at 6:48 PM, mrjohns2 said:

You didn’t include world crest, handbook, and socks. 

They usually give us the hard sell on uniform pants every time we visit the Scout Shop.

Guy, my son is 6. He'll have the knees blown out of them in 4 months if he doesn't outgrow them first. 😂

OP: The OA is an honor society for Scouts, much like NHS is for high school students.

A scout must be elected by their troop and then perform a day of service as a sort of initiation (referred to as an "Ordeal"). If your son's troop does not hold a regular OA election, your troop leadership must arrange for one to be held. If they are unsure of where to start, I suggest someone reach out to your local professional (probably a "District Executive") or your Unit Commissioner (an experienced volunteer who acts as a liaison between troops and the District).

OA is not intended to replace your son's troop experience. Rather, it's more of an add-on that will allow him to connect with older scouts and enrich his time in Scouting. My own experience with OA as a youth was mainly positive ~ I appreciated the recognition and enjoyed connecting with other older scouts year-round (many of whom I served with on the local council camp staff).

Like many Scouting programs, I'm sure his OA experience will greatly depend on 1) the quality of volunteers running the local program and 2) the quality of the Scout families in your area with youth participating in the OA.

On 9/11/2023 at 10:50 AM, PACAN said:

@BetterWithCheddar  require  " parents to volunteer a certain number of hours"    

Sounds better than why one reason Packs and Troops go out of business  - We are in a drop and run game.

I don't know much about the local youth basketball program since my son is only in 1st grade, so I just signed up to be a parking lot attendant for a few of the high school's home games - basically, I just need to direct the visiting team to the gym and make sure no grandparents slip on the ice. Easy enough.

What I like about the basketball club's volunteer model is 1) they didn't charge me to volunteer and 2) their baseline assumption is that I'm not out to endanger children (sarc). I'm just a dopey dad who doesn't mind freezing his buns off in mid-February to make sure people get to and from the game safely - that was good enough for them.

My wife and I are in our late 30s. Our one and only child is in 1st grade. He started Cub Scouts last year and I've enjoyed connecting with many of you virtually as I've gotten re-acquainted with Scouting. My son has also been sampling sports at the YMCA for 2 years and they've been great - low cost, low commitment, emphasis on fun and participation, etc. (highly recommend to parents with young kids).

This year, he's old enough to participate in the local youth basketball program. They require $200 in program fees, $200 in apparel / equipment fees, and parents to volunteer a certain number of hours - all for elementary school kids. No one seems to be phased by this (myself included). We've all accepted this as natural. 

There will be over 50 kids in my son's grade who go out for basketball (large, suburban district), yet only 5 or 6 for Cub Scouts. It really makes you wonder how one program can be so successful, while another struggles to maintain membership (our Pack is at 40 Scouts ... which is pretty good but probably should be larger for our area).

 Something to ponder. 🙂

Our household should be able to balance basketball and Scouts (even as the basketball commitment increases), but that's pretty much all our son will be able to do moving forward (and he's 6). It helps that: 1) I'm his Den Leader and have some control over the Scout schedule; 2) he's our only child and we have two parents to shuttle him around; and 3) we make a decent enough living where the cost isn't a huge obstacle.

That is some serious dad cred right there.

I'm just proud of myself for remembering to leave our dog with the neighbors before rushing to the hospital.

I know I've posted something similar in the past, but I'll reiterate:

I've never been fully comfortable with using Native American imagery as a youth in the OA, despite being an active lodge member. The big draw for me was always recognition and the opportunity to fraternize with scouts my age (never AIA). I'm hardly the PC-type, but I've avoided the use of certain logos out of respect for individuals who may not be accurately represented by the OA-sanctioned symbolism. Personally, it doesn't bother me if you're a fan of AIA and are participating in them respectfully and with good intentions; however, I suspect there is a silent majority on the issue who are largely indifferent, but (if pressed) would prefer to move on to something less likely to offend or draw criticism.

32 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

My son got a CIT position at the local camp.

Now, to my feeble mind, that means, "Counselor In Training." Menial work hired out in the past.

He worked in the kitchen for two weeks, all day. No "counselor," no "training." He hated it.

He never went back to a camp staff position.

That is really disappointing to hear. I'm sorry that was his staff experience.

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Our modern council-run Summer Camps are not the ideal unit experience.  They are not "A week of camp life..."; they are a rustic "country-club" experience.  IMO, of course...

Very true, but they still get kids outdoors. The average parent (me included) loves flush toilets and structure. They're more inclined to bring their kids to camp when these two needs are met.

More Flush Toilets + More Program Structure = More Kids at Camp

1 hour ago, Delphinus said:

Wow! It's one thing to ask them to volunteer and provide free labor, but to charge them on top of that. Good luck getting teenagers to forego their summer vacations for that! The summer camp we went to in July did a great job, but they were understaffed by about 15 people. This will only make it much much worse.

It's unfortunate that the trade-off for teenagers staffing council camps has grown over the past 20-30 years.

Years ago, a staffer's only tradeoffs may have been a few weeks of socializing with their high school friends and maybe their troop's high adventure trip. Today, we're asking them to give up those things, plus:

• Academic Progress
• Roster Spots or Playing Time in High School Athletics
• And now their Parents' Savings

2 hours ago, cmd said:

It's hard to find a job as a 14 or 15 year old, so they're likely not giving up much in the way of other employment.

I bet this varies largely by region. Around the Great Lakes, there tends to be more seasonal opportunities for teenagers because tourism spikes with the comfortable summer weather.

2 hours ago, cmd said:

When I worked at girl scout camp back in the 90s, CITs had to pay something and managing them was nearly as much work as the campers.

Again, this probably varies largely by experience, but the vast majority of CITs were a net positive to the camp staff. I only recall one pair of boys (twins) who were a handful. Their parents probably laughed all the way home when they dropped them off at camp for the summer. The average 14-year-old scout may not be ready to guide a troop through check-in or instruct a merit badge, but they are well-suited to help with these tasks.

I've got a new one for everyone. It's not necessarily Cub-related, but I think it fits the spirit of the thread.

Yesterday, my Cub-age son and I attended an event at one of our local council camps. While he was deep in a handicraft project, one of the volunteers mentioned the council now charges junior staffers $100/week for the privilege of working on summer camp staff.

I staffed the same camp for a few years and was considered a "counselor in training" (CIT) when I was 14 and 15. I did not receive any pay for those 2 summers, but was scheduled for ~75% of the paid staff hours and could pursue advancement opportunities in my free time. I still worked >50 hours per week at $0 / hour. It was a bargain for the council, but I enjoyed it.

Fast forward many years and the prospect of paying for my son to work at the same camp does not sit well with me. By staffing council camps as CITs, we're already asking these kids to forgo pay, "optional" off-season sports practice, and earning extra HS/college credits. Now we're charging them? What are we doing here?

I agree, there is potential for conflict there, but you also must consider the fact that the pool of buyers for properties that cost >$4.5 million is pretty shallow. Having a board member with a real estate development business (or even developer friends) likely expedited the sale and provided immediate liquidity to the council. It's then incumbent upon the remaining board members to ensure the council received fair value for the property.

The role of a Board is clear to me, but who selects the Board in most councils? In a public corporation, shareholders at least have some recourse to sue or recall Board members. How can volunteers hold their council board accountable?

On 8/10/2023 at 1:43 PM, scoutldr said:

 It appears they want you to work your way up through the levels before reaching National level.

So it's like Scouting for adults? 😛

Jokes aside, there appeared to be some good opportunities on the website for college-age volunteers to hone their technical skills.

On 8/9/2023 at 10:58 AM, SiouxRanger said:

Why does the BSA, like so many not-for-profits, have a volunteer board?

Hypothetically, if you take a dozen well-respected individuals from a community, you can create a decision-making body that's not only made up of intelligent, well-connected people, but also one that's invested in that community. They often hire an executive to make the day-to-day decisions, but can also help provide a layer of oversight to an organization and a vision for long-term planning.

On 8/7/2023 at 1:05 PM, yknot said:

As a kid, I never heard coach jokes or priest jokes, but I sure heard scoutmaster jokes. Abuse in scouting was pretty widely known and pretty much batted aside as just another humorous woodland hazard like wet socks or a nosy bear.

The Scoutmaster jokes were part of my youth experience, as well. As Scouts in the 1990s, we were hyper aware of youth protection pitfalls and took much of the organization's guidance seriously ... and, of course, mocked some of it since we were adolescents. 

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I want to ask here.  Is demanding Scouts do one thing OR do push-ups considered corporal punishment in 2023 in the barriers to abuse? 

I honestly don't know, but that's not an environment I would have wanted to be a part of a as a youth, nor one I would tolerate as an adult.

I'm very sorry your situation became untenable.

Good luck. Thanks for always pushing for better program, despite your frustration.

I thought this was like the Super Bowl where they plan out 3 or 4 in advance, no?

1 hour ago, nolesrule said:

I just want to address this, because I think it misses the point of uniforms. Uniforms are part of everyday life, sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly. A uniform is really just an outward expression of an individual's commitment to the aims and ideals of the group the uniform represents, and can act as a mirror to help reflect that back at yourself. It adds a level of outward expectation to strive to live up to.

I appreciate this angle, but let me ask - can't a leader or group of leaders express this same commitment with khakis, a branded polo / fleece, and a name tag? Aside from baseball, you never see a coach dress up like their players and yet no one seems to question their commitment to an organization. Appearance is important, but there are often multiple methods to accomplish the same objective. 

One of my direct reports at work is an Eagle Scout (like myself). We work in a profession that tends to skew conservative and he occasionally presents himself in a less traditional manner. That said, he's not only the nicest guy I've ever worked with, but also the most diligent. He's way ahead of where he needs to be in his development plan and it's reflecting well on me (his manager) and our company. It would have been short-sighted of me to pass on his resume based on how he dressed for his interview.

Apologies for digging up this old thread ~ I just find the economics of the situation very interesting. Has anyone experienced similar issues this year?

Working as a camp counselor used to be a great summer job, but I think there is less interest now that many school district calendars have crept into the summer. How many districts now offer summer classes or 'voluntary' (wink, wink) workouts for athletics participants? Even today's college students are pressured to have a series of good summer internships and not just one internship between their junior and senior years. Further, many council camps used to operate through mid-August. How many have shortened their seasons due to membership declines? There probably aren't as many summer job seekers looking for just 5-6 weeks of employment. I spent 9 summers workers on council camp staffs (ages 14-22) and it's hard to envision a scenario where that would make sense for my son today. It was a stretch for me back then.