BetterWithCheddar

I ordered several custom patches from Craig years ago. It was a great experience. I'd highly recommend visiting his site.

He's the genius who makes square knots on green backgrounds to match Venturing uniforms. Honestly, who thought tan on green was a good idea?

On 10/19/2022 at 1:17 PM, BearsBeetsBSG said:

*LOVES* Scouting and all the things she can do in Scouting.

• has *zero* interest in new/young Scouts, and spends all energy linking up with former camp staff mates and older youths in nearby troops. 

She’s incredibly capable, and has checked all the boxes, but if I were to be honest about her leadership in her position, umm.. I wouldn’t recommend her.  

Is this normal? 

You've got a capable young lady who loves Scouting - ordinarily, that wouldn't be a problem, except your Troop is experiencing some growing pains. In theory, a Troop exists with Scouts ages 11-17 in perfect harmony, but in practice, kids have different needs and interests. While I'd encourage older Scouts to take an interest in the development of their younger peers, it's unfair to charge them with that responsibility (no matter what the Handbook says). 

So, yes - it's normal. Even the best, most-involved Scouts follow a fairly typical evolution:

• Ages 11-14: Troop Life is the core of their Scouting experience. They earn their Life Rank and nearly all required merit badges within 3 years. The capstone of this phase is them serving as ASPL or SPL at age 13 or 14.
• Ages 15-17: They scale back their involvement in the Troop because their high school experience is more demanding and they've already been through the Troop Calendar 3 or 4 times. They connect and bond with other older Scouts through Camp Staff, OA, or High Adventure activities. Ideally, they return to the Troop to finish their Eagle requirements and provide support as a Troop Guide, Instructor, or JASM, but they should not be counted on as primary youth leaders.
• Ages 18-21: They still might make great seasonal employees for the BSA. Hold the door open for them if they ever want to volunteer or finish up any Venturing requirements, but it's time for them to shine outside of Scouting.

I grew up in what most would consider a great Boy Scout Troop.

Without hesitation, the reason our program was so successful was our dedicated Scoutmaster. I cannot say enough good things about her. A secondary reason for our success was a high number of dads willing to go camping every month. While my Scoutmaster was the glue that held the Troop together, we were never short on parent volunteers. My father wasn't an active Scouter, but he was on the Troop Committee, helped with BORs, and chaperoned some events. Lastly, our district had a strong program. District camporees were staples of the Troop calendar and we often camped with neighboring troops.

Also, here's an intangible I don't think most folks consider: The mix of Scouts. As leaders, we have limited control over the types of Scouts and parents that join our units. My troop in the late 1990s was made up of mostly decent, friendly kids. Interpersonal conflicts were rare. I'm 7 years older than my brother and he lasted about 6 months in Boy Scouts because the mix of kids around his age was more eclectic. He wasn't interested in spending time with them outside of school.

You can put loads of time and effort into programming, but in my opinion, it still comes down to people. 

I'm about 2 months into my tenure as a Lions Den Leader. We just had our first Den meeting on Tuesday.

Most Scouts in our Pack are from the same elementary school. The school allows us to hold our monthly Pack meeting in the school cafeteria, but has limited meeting time / space for other groups. Fortunately, I was able to reserve a community room at our public library for Den meetings. This turned out to be a stroke of good luck because parents told me they liked having the opportunity to let their kids check out books before or after the meeting. Some families let older siblings tag along and browse the stacks while the Lion Scout and parent participated in the Den meeting. I was just desperate to find a reliable and convenient meeting location, but may have stumbled upon a winner.

The theme of our first meeting was "Meet the Lions." We spent 10 minutes discussing the Scout Oath and Law so the Scouts could complete the "Lion's Honor" adventure and earn their first belt loop. The rest of the meeting was spent decorating their own poster board with drawings of 1) their hobbies and interests, 2) their families, and 3) what the hoped to do in Scouting this year. Afterwards, they had an opportunity to share their poster with the Den. I thought this went well. They seemed engaged and never got too silly. There was good interaction between Scouts and parents. Plus, all of the boys were brave enough to stand up in front of the group and talk about their posters.

Interesting take-away: 4 of the 5 Scouts drew something camping-related for what they hoped to do in Scouting this year. The 5th Scout (mine) drew a bunch of badges because he's really excited to earn awards this year. I don't think this is due to a narcissistic high need for achievement, but rather a Minions short film where the Minions join the "Badger Scouts" and try to earn merit badges.

Here's my dilemma: I've got 5 brand new scouts who want to get outdoors, but winter can be unforgiving in our region and it won't be reliably nice out again until May. I think I'll bring a small tent to our next Den meeting and challenge the boys to put it together as a gathering activity (just to give them a taste of the outdoors), but that may only satisfy them for another month.

Maybe it's just me, but as an adult, I'm not too keen on wearing medals. Save that type of acknowledgement for people who save lives. I'm still appreciative of recognition but would prefer a square knot and/or small desktop award. I do, however, share the OP's desire for consistency. 

Thanks for making that commitment. You're probably the perfect person to provide continuity for your Troop, having already had the full experience with your oldest and another two in the pipeline. Good luck!

I'm also running my son's Lion Den after returning to scouts as a parent.

I'm aware of the burnout potential and have planned a simple calendar (1 Den Meeting + 1 Pack Meeting per month). Most Pack meetings have a special theme or activity and aren't strictly administrative. I'll make parents aware of special events outside our standard meeting schedule, but I've encouraged them to cherry-pick the activities their families find most interesting.

There are a few more experienced parents in our Pack who have graciously told me not to worry about anything this year outside of my own Den's programming. That's been huge for me, as it's allowed me to ease back into Scouting without feeling overwhelmed.

Wow, that's quite a load for you to bear. Thank you for doing your best.

On the subject of religion: When in doubt, put control of sensitive subjects back in the hands of the parents.

Not every requirement needs to be completed at an official Scout function. It's OK to give Cubs and their parents a little homework every month. You wouldn't want it to become a chore, but 20 minutes of discussion between monthly Den meetings isn't unreasonable.

On 9/19/2022 at 3:22 PM, cmd said:

Troops aren't broken down by rank the way a pack is, so having the necker change wouldn't be as useful as it is for cubs.  It's nice to be able to find at a glance that one kid who has wandered off with his brother's den.

Agreed. I find the different colored neckerchiefs useful for distinguishing between dens and helping younger scouts get to the appropriate place. It's the different neckerchief slides for each age group that seem unnecessary. One neckerchief slide for the entire Cub Scout program would be sufficient.

Somewhat related:  I noticed ScoutShop.org is having a 20% off flash sale today (9/24) with code AUTUMN.

17 hours ago, ajherkert said:

Similar story here! Earned rank of Eagle in 2003, and went on to spend a couple more years involved with my troop, then pursued Outdoor Leadership activities through other associations like NOLS. I was in the Scouts since Tiger age (we started in 1st grade back in my Day) and it was a big part of my upbringing and shaped who I am. Loved summer Camp the most but then got real into the High adventure world and never looked back...

 it's been 15+ years since my last time doing anything Scouting related! Excited to be back in Uniform.

My oldest is also 5 and starting as a Lion. I just spent $350 at the local scout store to get ready for the season, Lol

Welcome @ajherkert!

Wow, lots of parallels here. In addition to being a new Lion Den Leader, I also earned my Eagle award in 2003.

I'm excited to have this experience with my son; however, I'm quickly finding it'll be one very different from my youth. Not only have there been some major changes to the program (most of them for the better), but also, I'm starting to see liability in places where I once saw fun. I'm not too worried about putting on a good program for the kids (it doesn't take much to stir their imaginations); rather, my biggest concern is keeping the calendar well-organized for the parents' sake and not overloading the scouts.

Welcome, Austin. Congrats on earning your Eagle Scout award.

I doubt many forum members have ever participated in such an interview, so it's difficult to say exactly what may be appropriate. Is it customary for candidates to wear Scouting uniforms to their interviews? As others have indicated, wearing your Eagle Scout rank badge is likely not the right option now that you're an adult. Even the medal might not send the right message unless your participation in the parade is somehow affiliated with Scouting. I've only worn my medal a handful of times as an adult and it's usually been pinned to a navy blazer at Eagle Scout COHs. If you're proud of your award and want to use it as a conversation starter, then I'd echo what others have mentioned and suggest you look for a tasteful Eagle Scout pin for your lapel.

Collectively, I'm sure this group has participated in hundreds of interviews, so if you want to make a second post with some additional details about the position and interview process, you'll probably get a few helpful responses.

Good luck.

On 9/13/2022 at 3:14 PM, qwazse said:

Defunding the World Crest is a non-starter. You might not feel it, but your scout benefits from the World Organization of Scouting Movement supporting scouts in nations with financial issues more prohibitive than only the poorest of Americans will ever experience. Because of WOSM, your scout might one day find himself with a hiking buddy from the farthest corner of the earth.

I'm not suggesting defunding the World Crest. I just question its appropriateness on a Cub Scout uniform (again, I'm approaching this from the perspective of a cost-conscious parent who is new to Scouting). The purple emblem itself isn't so bad, but what's with the ring emblem around it? That is new since I was a youth. Does it have a purpose or is it purely ornamental? It may not look so bad on an adult uniform, but it takes up significant space on a blue uniform shirt.

I'm not sure why Cub Scouts needs to have a CSP and unit number on their shoulder. Unlike Boy Scouts, they rarely participate in activities outside of their council or unit. I'd favor dropping those and the World Crest emblem just to keep entry costs low and uniforming simple.

Since COVID, much of my household's weekly spending flows through the Target app. It'd be great if the BSA could offer a set of basic items online through a major retailer. Want to boost membership? Appeal to mothers. In most households, they make the majority of the every-day purchases and they make them on their phones through same 4 or 5 major retailers.

I spent about $65 yesterday to outfit my new Lion Scout and we just stuck to the basics:

• Uniform Shirt: $33
• Lion Scout Kit: $13
• Neckerchief: $13
• Shoulder Loops: $5

Our Cubmaster advised us to skip the t-shirt if we thought our son would remain in Scouts. I'm not sure that's consistent with the BSA's brand guide, but I thought it was a good suggestion. Kids get excited about the uniform, and they can wear it multiple years. They'll only be Lions for about 6 months (depending on the crossover date).

I'm a pretty enthusiastic parent with adequate resources and I can't believe the "crap" the BSA tries to tack on. As a Cub Scout, I had one hat and one neckerchief slide and now they want us to buy a new one every year? C'mon. We ventured to our council office yesterday to buy a uniform shirt and found the council sells them with the CSP and World Crest emblem already sewn on.  At first, that seemed convenient, but then I realized they tacked on a World Crest emblem ring, which takes up 1/4 of a tiny blue uniform (can someone enlighten me on the purpose of the ring?). I asked for a blank uniform shirt, which they retrieved from the back.

I've always heard the argument that Scouts is a still cheaper than most sports; however, I'm not sure that adage holds. Registration and uniforming for a new Cub Scout can easily reach $150. Elementary-age kids can try a new sport at the YMCA for $60 in my area.

With respect to the comments on the younger Cubs burning out ~ I'm keenly aware of that possibility. I'm putting together a very simple calendar for my Lion Den. All uniforming will be on a best efforts basis.

I had an interesting first blush with Scouting this week (after returning as a dad):

The Good Stuff: Last winter, I reached out to the Cub Scout Pack at my son's soon-to-be elementary school to inquire about meeting dates, times, etc. I knew COVID and the membership crisis had decimated Scouting in our area, and I wanted to make sure my son would be part of a stable Pack. I'm glad to do my part as a parent, but didn't want to get saddled with running the entire Pack. The initial contacts I made were helpful and the Pack seems stable with 30 kids and some returning leadership. We're fortunate to have this option nearby. 

The Bad Stuff: We live on the fringe of an MSA with over 250,000 people. Our council headquarters is in a smaller community that is closer to the center of the council footprint. There used to be a Scout Shop in our area (as well as one adjacent to the council office). That is apparently no longer the case and now it's a 45-minute drive to buy scout supplies in-person. I contemplated ordering my son's uniform and handbook online, but I wasn't sure how fast National could fill the order and I thought my son would enjoy picking out his uniform together- WRONG. There were at least 4 other families crammed into a small shop while one employee (whom my wife deemed "creepy") struggled with the register. My son eventually grew bored (he's 5) and my wife got mad and took him to wait in the car. Nice job, BSA. Great first impression (sarc).

4 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

It wasn’t part of my youth in the ‘82-‘96. Now I see adults wearing them on the lapels of their uniforms - all too often. 

I was presented with a set of pins when I earned my Eagle award in 2003. I think they may have come with my medal. I don't recall seeing many parent or mentor pins on display before then. If @mrjohns2hadn't seen them by 1996, I'm guessing they were first issued around 2000 - does anyone know for sure? I lean toward being more of a uniform minimalist, but I would probably wear an Eagle Dad pin someday if my son continues with Scouts.

Pins look nice on the pocket flap of a Jac-shirt, but have diminishing returns on an actual uniform shirt.

On 8/27/2022 at 3:42 PM, mrjohns2 said:

Perfect place, imho, for those eagle mentor pins people want to junk their normal uniform up with. 

I'm returning to Scouting after many years to participate with my Cub-age son. In multiple threads, I've observed some angst over the Eagle mentor pins. They were around in my youth, but I don't recall seeing them clutter many uniforms. Is this a recent development?

Wow, this thread nearly goes back to my youth. The Jac-shirts were fairly common in my neck of the woods. Even during summer camp, temperatures could still drop into the 40s during the early morning. The Jac-shirts (w/ OA back patch) were akin to a letterman's jacket for older scouts. A few individuals wore insignia from the high adventure bases they had visited. The only taboos I noticed were when folks attempted to display multiple back patches on the back of their Jac-shirts. That wasn't a great look (too cluttered). If I wore my old Jac-shirt to a scouting event today, I'd probably ditch all insignia except for a few pins. Those fit nicely on the collar and pocket flaps.

Oh boy, that's a tough one. Personally, I would not exhaust whatever little capital I have to enforce uniform standards unless someone's appearance is clearly inappropriate. It sounds like these individuals may have missed the mark for the event, but in their minds, it was probably just silly fun. Does their appearance impede your ability to offer a safe and enjoyable program for youth in your area? If the answer is "no," pick a different battle.

Thank you for the warm welcome and encouragement. 

Hello!

I enjoyed Scouting as a youth and am excited to see the program through my son's eyes this Fall when he begins Cub Scouts.

While I've been away from Scouting, I've kept tabs on the program by occasionally visiting my council website and this forum. Thank you to all who have posted over the years. I've enjoyed the good-natured dialogue and some of the frankness that can't be found in official BSA outlets. I hope to contribute to the discussion.

As a kid, I had the good fortune of belonging to a strong Troop in a strong District. This lead to an unbelievable number of program opportunities for the boys in my neighborhood. Many of us earned our Eagle badges, staffed the local council camp, and held offices in our OA Lodge. Those experiences were all made possible by an unusually high concentration of quality volunteers in our area.

In joining this forum, I hope to find ideas and guidance to help put on a top-notch Cub Scout program at my son's elementary school. I'm also looking forward to chatting about Scouting and some of my past experiences. My wife is probably sick of hearing the same stories. 🙂

Best Regards,

BetterWithCheddar