johnsch322

9 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Balance and perspective, along with somehow also seeing beyond the outline to other lines of intersection.  You cannot have that if somehow the subject is removed from its outliers, which in this case is society at the times these things occurred.  As far as the video is concerned, I have yet to see it in its entirety, so perhaps that will alter my view.  As far as you comment about my view being repugnant; it is not me that is using survivors.

Your view of what happened in the past comes from someone with a rosy picture of the BSA. My view is as a survivor of what transpired in reality in the BSA. You cannot water down what happened by saying such society in those times. Child abuse was as illegal, abhorrent and cruel 60, 50, 40 or 30 years ago. The only difference now is that it is no longer covered up. Your arguments remind me of those who still defend Jimmy Saville because he raised so much money for charity. If you asked any of his victims I am sure that they would say that what he took from them does not equal any of the good that the money he raised was used for. I ask you this, if you could change history and not have BSA come into existence would you for the sake of all of the victims?

9 hours ago, skeptic said:

If not, then you are hypocrits.  As at least a couple of survivors have said on here, this whole media circus has made their pain worse, especially those that had to some extent found a little less of it over time.🙁

What is hypocritical is to expect coverage of the abuse that went on in the BSA to have it within the same articles/videos etc. to also paint a rosy picture of BSA when the BSA never acknowledged to the public its abuse issues until lawsuits/publicity and the Oregon Supreme Court compelled them to. As a survivor I find it repugnant that you use us survivors a basis for your objection to media coverage.  The "media circus" has made it at times more aware of our pain but it also has been therapeutic and empowered us to speak out and try to bring change.  You only have to look at powerful voices such as the survivor who spoke during the confirmation hearings and is using his voice to change YPT.

To the moderators I try to refrain from using language of hate and I do not believe what you edited from me was graphic. It unfortunately is one of the constant reminders I have of my past abuse.

9 hours ago, PaleRider said:

If the trailer is any indication of the entire video, the "producers" have gone out of their way to focus on the worst, and ignore anything else from over a century of Scouting.  And, the people in the trailer are seemingly chosen to look sleazy as adults, and helpless as children. 

By your reasoning of showing only the bad /worst where were the Norman Rockwell Boys Life covers with little Johnny being molested or the stories within Boys Life of how to cope with ... abuse? Oh yeah that's right they only wanted to show the best and most wholesome because that is what sold subscriptions and helped recruitment which kept BSA professionals paid.  And they knew that abuse was happening for over a century of scouting. 

“I am not going to sit on my ass as the events that affect me unfold to determine the course of my life. I’m going to take a stand. I’m going to defend it. Right or wrong, I’m going to defend it.” — Cameron Frye

54 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Those very efforts have been used as bludgeons to mislead and overstate the problem by yellow journalism and a lot of less than scrupulous lawyers. 

Soo what came first the chicken or the egg? Or maybe I should ask this differently, did the abuse happen first and then journalism and legal issues arise from this or was it the reverse? I do not believe this issue has been overstated or misused by anyone, but the BSA definitely understated and misled the public (including congress) to the extent of the problem.

46 minutes ago, yknot said:

Reality does not support your opinion. Youth were particularly at risk in scouting for reasons similar to the Catholic church. The person BSA hired to oversee youth protection also said youth in scouts were particularly at risk because of the nature of the program. Failing to comprehend those risks only condemns us to repeat them. 

Denial of the dangers or feeling of comfort in the level of danger in the program also leads to a repeat of history. 

2 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

Agreed.  I had flashbacks to Wilmington where Survivors gathered when the TCC was being selected and she walked out, said "The BSA is sorry, we'll give Survivors 90 days to get their claims in, and wrap this up quickly."  NO BSA professionals spoke, NO understanding of how difficult it would be for Survivors to come forward, let alone do it in 90 days.

How in gods name could she possibly think this process would only take 90 days. 

21 minutes ago, scoutesquire said:

You all have bought into the insurers arguments.  

This bone of contention has been going on for a few years and I think that if you have been following all of this close enough you must have question as to the validity of all of the claims.  When a lawyer filed a claim with no name (but his signature) and another who gave an unfilled POC with his signature and had intake people use that form coupled with the fact of 25% of claimants not even voting I sure have some doubts.

It is all getting murkier instead of becoming clearer as to the outcome.  Hopefully whatever will come to pass will happen quickly.  I hated "as the world turns" my grand mother used to make me watch it as a kid. Now thru this mess I definitely feel like I am living it. 

18 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

This proceeding has backed the Judge into a box. 

Not just the Judge but also the BSA and the insurers. All of the California cases will be filed by the end of the year and if the bankruptcy does not go thru all of them will be scheduled for trial and all by jury. If it is a cramdown then the insurers, LC's and CO's will start facing massive legal bills and then the subsequent awards. 

I watched all of the confirmation hearing today and must admit I was very disturbed while watching Ken Rothweiler's testimony. It was if he raised his voice loud enough and tried to answer 10 questions which were not asked of him, acted like he himself was a victim and at the same time was ignorant of facts that nobody would question his sincerity.  Coupled with KR saying he was signing POC's just to make sure that everything was filled out and not as to the validity of them. On top of that the lawyer who admitted he didn't really read and just gave his staff a blank POC with his signature on it to use and the biggest bozo who could not explain how his firm submitted POC's without claimant names and I really have doubt to how many actual survivor claimants there are in this bankruptcy.  

41 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

He also mentioned finding fellow survivors on a scouter forum

And I for one feel very grateful for finding him on this forum. 

I have heard that a member of SWG will testify Wednesday at 10AM EST.  I think this will be must watch TV.

I would say that James Patton has been raked over the coals with more coming tomorrow.

13 minutes ago, Zebra132 said:

I need some explaining!

I think we all do!!

5 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

BSA will pay $1.5M for this .

Bribe?

Does anyone expect any big surprises coming up in the next week or so in the confirmation and if you do what do you think they are?

5 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

[famous Rolling Stones line goes here]

I can't get no

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

Not sure if this post suggests this article, which is spot on by the way from my perspective, is reason for censue.  If so, I too would say not right, but in stronger verbiage.  Almost from the beginning some, shall we say questionable legal persons, those for whom I was smacked for my descriptions, have played fast and  loose with this.  The real victims, or now survivors, have been summarily used as pawns to instigate a "big payday" for grifters and those certain oily legal gurus, while the real victims/survivors have been left in the mud.  Again, just my view.  

First one needs to look at the authors disclosure :

[Full disclosure: our son was an Eagle Scout. He went through Cub Scouts, then Boy Scouts, in Maryland before finishing his Eagle Scout project (planning and executing a central plaza with flagpole at a school for disabled children in Gaithersburg) and in the process encountered over a dozen scout leaders. All were exemplary human beings. I never heard of any Scout abused in any way. 

He is most certainly biased especially when he states:

But since the bankruptcy, these 1700-odd claims (which already seemed like a lot to me) 

Everyone needs to remember that Child Sexual Abuse (especially males) victims never tell anyone about what happened to them and if they do it is later in life.

Second it was the BSA who entered the Bankruptcy voluntarily it must have been known to their lawyers what the ramifications of doing so could be.  

Third I refuse to be left in the mud.  I believe that by the time this is all over (several years from now) we will find satisfaction.  The initial value of the settlement was 1.1 Billion I believe and when it gets shot down by the appeals court how big will the settlement grow to?  All thanks to those ":oily legal gurus".

8 minutes ago, clbkbx said:

That is a really interesting idea. We'll see!

And they also have veto in any additional settlements with third parties and I would expect that would include any new settlement with Hartford, Century and the LDS.

Somehow, I feel like the TCC has called the other party's bluff.  they got nowhere in getting additional money so in return for their endorsement of the plan they were able to get better youth protection and TDP.  Are they betting that more money will have to be put on the table to get the plan confirmed and thru the appeals process?

The one group that must be most displeased with the latest voting results will be the insurance companies, LC's and CO's. Everyone who was mediating on the side of survivors was hamstrung by the bad deal that BSA made with Hartford and that was compounded by the Century and LDS deals. No matter what they say publicly the insurance company's need this to go away. 

4 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

LOVE that letter 😜

I love the author!!

52 minutes ago, skeptic said:

It occurred to me this morning that the problem I, and others, may be having is equating the BSA, the organization with the people behind it.  It is the people that have made the poor choices and not responded as we may think, or even know, today, they likely should.  (We are likely not seeing the total pictures due to time and lack of actual information).   The organization is made up of people, and often those people let it down for whatever reasons.  Having the skill and actually even bravery to stand against wrong actions and especially evil is hard, and far too many of us fail.  It then somehow gets transferred to the larger organization, and all its people, which is where the "broad brush" I speak of comes in.  It is interesting that a quote from a completely unconnected article this morning seems to pinpoint much of this discussion/debate/diatribe.

"Our society has become so quick to judge and point fingers and blame, and somewhere along the line, we've forgotten about kindness and compassion and forgiveness. And we've forgotten that we're all human and we all make mistakes."

 

 

Is there a mistake in your past you want forgiveness for?