johnsch322

5 minutes ago, Tron said:

I don't know about you, but the LC's in my state are basically broke, and just about everything they own is leveraged already. 

I am in California and the LC which I was part of has about 19 million in assets of which under the plan they are giving up about 3 million but that pales in comparison to the insurance companies.

5 minutes ago, Tron said:

Everyone who hopes to get a payday out of this settlement had better pray tonight that BSA doesn't go into Chapter 7. 

I may be mistaken but the entities that should be praying are the LC's, CO's and insurance companies.  Those of us in open states will soon have cases filed in State court (California by end of the year). A BSA Chapter 7 does not include anyone but National.

20 hours ago, skeptic said:

This entire thing has just added more pain to most of you.

Please do not speak for survivors. Frankly you are way underqualified and have a bias against survivors views.

Anyone see something ominous or nefarious in the cancellation of the June 17th hearing and rescheduling to July 20th?

22 minutes ago, Tron said:

Someone got triggered and scared by a simple question.

No. Just suggested that you acquaint yourself with the past few years of discussions and debates. Is that to much to ask?

5 minutes ago, Tron said:

This boggles me a bit; I know there is the "not wanting to relive the trauma" aspect of giving a detailed verification; however, if many are suspected to just take the $3500 why is the majority of this thread, the case, and the debate about the money instead of all of the other factors of the settlement?

I think you should read all the threads relating to the bankruptcy before you ask this question. I believe all aspects of the bankruptcy has been discussed and debated at some point. 

So does anyone know what the real value of the camps and property owned by the LC's?

8 hours ago, skeptic said:

I have seen several articles lately about LC owned camps being worth $10 Billion, apparently according to Kosnoff." 

Can you provide a link where Kosnoff is quoted saying that?

8 hours ago, skeptic said:

And he is NOT the champion of the people some seem to think,

Obviously not your champion but he is a champion to quite a few.

44 minutes ago, skeptic said:

The answer is fairly simple; Kasnoff .

Why is the answer Kosnoff when he did not write the article nor was he quoted in the article?

20 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Just a note.  My "sad" emoticon is not about the comment directly, only that it seems to verify one of the early concerns I proferred; that ripping off the scabs and bringing it all back might be worse than leaving it alone and focusing onl the present to keep it from happening again.  No easy answers, and this post seems to suggest that, as have a couple of others on here that are survivors.

I for one am glad that that the scab was ripped off. Now maybe it can be just a scar. I also believe the only way BSA was going to make meaningful changes was for them to go thru this process also. I believe I speak for more survivors that feel this way than don't.

51 minutes ago, Tron said:

This absolutely absurd; the private owners of Purdue Pharma are the target of the third party waivers. Are you attempting to say that Councils and Charter Organizations own BSA national?

We are a little feisty today LOL.

I don't see @ThenNow saying anything in the vein that you are saying.

I believe (and if I am wrong correct me) he is saying just that the third party releases are being paid for (does not matter what the relationship is the debtor) for less money than they would have to normally pay.

Kind of like a get out of jail card for 10% on the dollar for the whatever should be levied.

2 hours ago, Navybone said:

I’ll start my response with this, neither political party has the spine or integrity to address this issue, this violence that is killing children.  

If not enough that’s been done about mental health since Columbine, 23 years ago, and not enough since Sandy Hook, 10 years ago, what needs to still be done?  Just saying mental health is not an answer but an handwave to avoid talking about the issue.  It’s a cop-out .

And I am no statistician, but to the facts of murders with guns stand up to scrutiny when competing in liberal state versus conservative?   

Fianlly, do you really think that censorship is the answer, and it is ok so long as it protects the second amendment?  The constitution also used to support the practice of slavery, but the country was smart enough to figure out that that part of the constitution needed to be fixed.  

 

 

Thank you for your response but I would like to ask you where I advocated censorship? Mental health and how it is dealt with is not a cop out. I have a child who suffers from depression and she feels like not enough resources are there for her in High School.

I would like also to point out that gun violence does not just kill children but also adults. I am sure that many times more adults die from gun violence than children.

Gun control and the second amendment is a touchy subject for all, not just the BSA.

The guns themselves are not the issue rather society as a whole.

There is not enough attention put into mental health for one. More needs to be done to identify those who are more prone to mass violence.  We need to do more for those with mental health issues even if it means more mental health hospitals. 

Violent video games have made more young males prone to glorify the mass deaths that incur within the games and take those glorifications into their own reality.

Certain musical genres glorify violence and death and that has contributed to guns and death.

We have become to liberal towards criminals and prison.  We need laws that have bite in them. Just look at cities like New York and San Francisco where violence and the lack of bite in the laws (sentencing) has made those cities so violent.

We need to teach to young people the value of life. Not just of others but their own lives as well.

I do not have guns in my house and that to me is a personal choice. One because of my own and my daughters depression, but also as my family has had gun violence touch our lives. My brother murdered his wife and subsequently killed himself yet I believe in the second amendment.

8 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

reorganization plan approved by 86% of claimants

I may be wrong, but I think that the majority of the 83% have been more concerned with the financial aspect of the reorganization and BSA did not enter bankruptcy to get input into Youth Protection. Any youth protection improvements are just a byproduct (though needed) to the BSA program. I am quite sure that the total expenditure out of the over $100 million only a couple percentage went towards crafting new policies. 

6 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Somewhere on here, one survivor noted that his father never knew.

That may have been me. I never told anyone for 50 years. 

7 minutes ago, skeptic said:

That is not giving any excuse for the abuser, only asking how, at the time, was it dealt with?  If the parent(s) were not told, how might that have made the situation more difficult? 

If no one was told how would the parents know? 

8 minutes ago, skeptic said:

This is far too complex for most of us to completely understand, if even the "experts" still do not do so.  

Much more is known today and I personally know much more as I have come to grips with what happened to me and how the trauma has manifested in my life. 

On 5/6/2022 at 7:57 PM, elitts said:

should be based upon the BSA's more recent history rather than the pre-1980s.

And that is why I said past 10 past 5 and past year. However, an asterisk denoting that most male victims may not come forward for the next 10 to 20 years.

11 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

I'm sure you can't find a high percentage who actually look those numbers up. The statistics are out there for you to look up, not to tell willingly. Big difference. Unless you're trying to make a change and difference right here and now, what is that people want and what are you trying to prove? 

Did the BSA mess up. Yes! Are they going to pay for it. Yes! Are people going to be aware of it. Yes! That doesn't change the mission that the volunteers are trying to uphold here and now. Be a part of solution, no the problem- "nuff said". 

You are correct there is a big difference. Do you think a drug company or any company wants warnings on their product? No never but past actions or current sometimes necessitates such actions. 

Discussion and ideas can make things better. I know for a fact that survivor members of the YPT committee read these posts and some ideas may be brought forward for incorporation. If I float a solution or a recommendation whether it is something more direct or making parents more aware I might just be part of the solution. Alas your "nuff said" is not part of a solution. There can never be enough said about CSA and YPT.

20 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

While I do agree with you to a certain extent, no business (non-profit or not) is going to tell you something some egregious.

In the auto industry it is called the NHTSA safety reports (1 to 5 stars) and in the pharmaceutical industry they are called "Pharmacy Auxiliary Labels" (Drug Warnings). I am sure I can find more examples.

1 minute ago, OaklandAndy said:

UNLESS, there is a gross consistent pattern of neglect.

I think this is an imperative thought. In the BSA history has taught us there was.

I am presuming you were over the age of 18 when you were in the military as I was but a child in the BSA does not get to make his decision to join BSA. He may have a desire to join but it is parents who sign you up yet the victims are the children. Hard statistics based on history should be presented to parents when they go to sign up their children should be given to them including the details of 82,000 claimants in the bankruptcy with the distinct possibility of many more. The rate of incidences in the past 10 years, 5 years and past year with a caveat that the full extent of CSA will not be known for 20 to 30 years. When I buy a bottle of aspirin I get more warnings of possible side effects than when a parent signs up there child.

25 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

The future can be seen as binary; it will get better or it won't. 

26 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

Given that, and given that we know victims will NOT report right away,

Both of these are the crux of the issue. Will it work or won't it? The amount of time (20 years or so) is the program worth it to take the risk?

As a survivor this is what I wrestle with in forming my pro or anti views. This is why I am on the fence. I first hand know the devastating effects of CSA. I now have contact with many other survivors when just a few years ago I thought I was the only one. I correspond with others who's lives have been more upended than my own and believe there are countless others who no longer dwell on this earth because the pain was more than they could bear the burden of. 

I can see benefit for some but at what cost to others and yes I also believe there is still abuse happening. 

8 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Do you work with any abused kids as a scout leader?

I feel like I am on a school playground and instead of answering a question I get the question asked back to me. No I do not work with abused kids as a scout leader. Are the kids you work with abused in scouting?

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

And what is the lesson?

Having the ability to see more than one opinion, good or bad.

Do you work with kids who were abused in scouting?

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I have experience as a scout leader working with abused scouts. How much experience as a Scout leader do you have working with abused scouts? 

Are you talking about Scouts who were abused in BSA?

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I simply don't agree with the director and as someone who works in a data evaluation area, data doesn't tell a whole story. 

The gentleman worked in law enforcement before he worked for the BSA. 

"Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson."

Excessive Child Sexual Abuse within the BSA was the test but I do not believe all of the lessons have been learned. 

13 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Sand? I am only adding balance to anti- BSA comments based from my experience. How much adult experience do you have in the program?

Barry

15 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I have experience with the system. I don't believe he does. Or he did it wrong. Scouts are very safe. It's not perfect, and never can be. No system is. There is always someone looking for cracks. 

Barry

This is why I said you are burying your head in the sand. The former Director of Youth Protection says scouts are not safe. I am sure that he had access to more data then you have had (unless you are in a position above or equivalent to him in BSA national). So why don't you want to believe him? 

Maybe in your small slice of BSA life you have not come across any issues and that in itself is good however I think your experience is a very small piece of a large pie.

Asking me for how much adult experience I have had in BSA is like me asking you for how much experience you have had in being sexually assaulted.