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Posts posted by 1980Scouter

  1. In the future I see a lot of local council mergers. There are many, mostly smaller councils struggling financially.  

    National should set a minimum of 5,000 scouts for a local council. With technology there is no need for as many scout offices. 

    Put scout offices and shops on camp properties and sell the council offices. Reduced overhead.

    • Upvote 1
  2. On 5/9/2023 at 8:02 PM, RememberSchiff said:

    Update May 9, 2023:

    The Logan County Commission purchased the 804-acre Camp Chief Logan boy scout camp at Garrett Fork for $915,000 using money from the Coal Reallocation Fund, which is earmarked for economic development purposes.

    While there are no immediate plans, Logan County Commission President Diana Barnette said the commission hopes to utilize the massive tract of land for a variety of purposes including boy scouts, girl scouts, 4-H camps, WECAN camps, church camps and trainings for county and local city law enforcement officers.

    More at source link:


    These are two different Chief Logan camps. The Ohio one is close to being sold though. 

    • Thanks 1
  3. My LC SE salary and benefits are $290,000 for a council with 6,000 scouts. This equals almost $50 per scout to fund the SE. 


    This seems very excessive to me in that the council has lost 2/3 of youth members over the last 5 years. What are other councils paying per scout? 

    • Upvote 2
  4. 2 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

    Would these not be the highest numbers or close to it for the year? 

    It takes into account new scouts over the summer and fall. After rechartering the more accurate numbers will be available hopefully. 

    I would like to see the average for an entire 12 months. That would take out any highs or lows and give a more accurate number.

    • Upvote 1
  5. 3 hours ago, malraux said:

    FWIW, membership numbers are now accessible to district committee and commissioners.

    Screenshot 2022-12-08 at 7.46.00 AM.png

    Would these not be the highest numbers or close to it for the year? 

    It takes into account new scouts over the summer and fall. After rechartering the more accurate numbers will be available hopefully. 

    • Upvote 1
  6. 7 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    You can find the 990 form for your council.  For my council latest one I could locate was 2019

    Revenue - $14.3 M.  These top 6 staff (less than 10% of the total staff) account for $1.594MM in costs or 11% of the budget.  SE pay is not in fact a misprint

    • SE / CEO
      • Reportable compensation - $459K
      • Other compensation - $159K
      • Total - $618K
    • Deputy SE
      • Reportable compensation - $189K
      • Other compensation - $70K
      • Total - $259K
    • Director of Development
      • Reportable compensation - $155K
      • Other compensation - $38K
      • Total - $193K
    • Director of Field Service
      • Reportable compensation - $151K
      • Other compensation - $33K
      • Total - $184K
    • Director of Field Service (another one)
      • Reportable compensation - $146K
      • Other compensation - $30K
      • Total - $176K
    • Director of Accounting
      • Reportable compensation - $101K
      • Other compensation - $63K
      • Total - $164K

    Wow. That is crazy salaries for a non-profit.  I agree that maybe 75k might be low in some markets. I was thinking of my area.

  7. What is a fair SE salary? Many councils in my area pay 200k +/- plus benefits.  This is excessive when Scouting is in decline and councils are strapped for cash. 

    I propose 75k and good benefits.  If you care about Scouting you will continue in your position. 

  8. 1 hour ago, Cburkhardt said:

    I am with SouixRanger on this.  1,000-Scout councils just can’t work anymore.  This council needs to be a large district within a well-run council.    Maybe a DE and an assistant.

    I think 5,000 youth should be the min number for a council. They always say you need 1,000+ scouts to make a financially successful summer camp go. 

    With technology there is no reason why 2-4 councils per state would not be reasonable. DE's could work from home near the area they serve. 

  9. 30 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    My district is short it's goal by about 50% or just over 160 Cub Scouts.  That is as of October.  They will probably close the gap a bit, but will end short of plan.

    I am concerned about Troops. Several are down to 1 patrol in my area.  One Troop in my town who always had 50-60 scouts even as of 2018/2019 are down to 9.  I talked to that Scoutmaster who said a former SM took over who was really strict and a rules guy to the point most of the scouts just quit.

    My pack recruited well and our Troop is fairly healthy.  However, I am seeing some dark clouds on the horizon.  BSA will need major changes to survive.

    My LC put out an update video last week saying year over year the number of scouts is up. 

    No numbers were given. Does this mean they have 100 more scouts? They went from 15,000 to 6,000 over 5 years.

    They always make everything upbeat and positive which is good but sometimes you have to be honest and let the facts be known. 

    I suspect if you dig deeper they are in trouble with losing members and charter partners. 

    • Upvote 1
  10. 9 hours ago, PACAN said:

    JMHO..but LC sponsoring ALL units probably ends the program.  Sponsors will withdraw all their support from the BSA causing greater financial shortfalls and increased lack of community support.     LC sponsoring ANY units is the way to go as LC neither have the time nor manpower to properly sponsor so they will hire new people just for that purpose and have the units pay for these positions with increased council fees over and above national, expect increased FOS and fundraising support, require "their" units to only go to the council camp and programs.  Of course the LCs will have access to bank accounts and equipment they will divest. 

    The LC that made the video had a link to the agreement form. It said it is mandatory to do FOS, popcorn, flowers and any other fundraiser at the council level. Camping is allowed at other council camps though. including for summer camp.

  11. And so it begins.  The exact appeal many have said will be a sticking point. I wonder if US Trustee will file the same appeal?

    Another bankruptcy related note, I have noticed all LC's in my area pushing the Jamboree very hard. Wonder if national sees it as a cash cow?

    Past ones were not given this much attention.  

    One last note LC hiring is in full swing. My LC has added 10 FT positions in the past few months, many new ones they have never had before.  They are at 40% membership from 5 years ago. How do they fund all this and still have a bankruptcy contribution?

  12. The LC's in my state are very optimistic of the future. They are hiring employees like crazy in the past month of so.

    Of the three councils I checked like 15 FTE's were added in the past month. Many were vacant positions but some are new ones. Seems like some may provide oversight to UMC units maybe. 

    Either they know something or are going all in to try and increase membership. 

  13. 5 hours ago, yknot said:

    Let me clarify. It had nothing to do with new future liability from existing cases. What (I thought) I understood was that BSA owes money to the settlement -- that some portion of what it has pledged or owes is going to come from future revenues based on its achieving its business plan and that that money will be funneled into the trust going forward. I was wondering if someone knew for certain. 

    I saw that too in one version of the plans. Not sure if it is in the current one.

  14. On 9/1/2022 at 9:32 AM, Eagle1993 said:

    Big change in BSA's financials.

    17c7637d-c326-4612-9685-10cfeb89a4f0_10280.pdf (omniagentsolutions.com)

    They transferred their entire Unrestricted RBT Balance to cash.  So, their cash went to $83.65M; however, their RBT Balance is now at $0.

    The RBT is their "Retirement Benefits Trust".  

    They also state they have $63M additional in cash set aside to pay JPM as they exit.

    Their bankruptcy fees dropped (which is a bit odd).  THey showed a decrease of $5.9M in professional fees.  Total is now $362M.


    I really think BSA running out of money before this is final is a big issue.  If they burn through 8-10 million a month on average that was suggested not including bankruptcy costs, 83 million will not last long. 

    Rechartering will help and surely HAB's made profit but in the end this could drag on for some time even if the plan is approved. 

    I wonder how much the BSA foundation has available to loan national? This could buy time.


  15. Has anyone else noticed a LC hiring boom. I checked three area LC's and in the last month they all hired staff. 

    Like 15 FTE's between the three councils. Many of these positions were left vacant for years and some are new positions. 

    Some positions seem like a response to UMC unit oversight by the council and the need to monitor all units more closely for YP standards. 

    I feel like the council's have a sense the bankruptcy will go through and they are going all in to try and maintain and increase membership. 

  16. On 7/22/2022 at 6:37 PM, 5thGenTexan said:

    This is part of our flyer.....




    They left an option out. #4 disband the troop and scouts wanting to continue can join nearby troops. 

    At least in my area you could find another troop within a 20 minute drive. This would be an option especially for the small, struggling troops. 

    It would be a hard option but one that at least allows the scouts to continue. 

    And it saves the troop from option #3 which most seem to dislike.

  17. 1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

    Let this sink in.  Purdue Pharma, complex case, had confirmation hearings in mid/late August 2021.  Judge Drain did a 5+ hour ruling approving the plan September 1.  Days after the last hearing.  That plan was rejected by district December 16.  So, 3.5 months to get a ruling from the bankruptcy judge, have that plan then reviewed by district and rejected by district.

    The BSA plan is already at 3+ months post confirmation hearing and still no decision.  This seems very odd.  Perhaps a bankruptcy lawyer can explain how common it is for a judge to not rule for 3+ months after a confirmation hearing where other complex cases are able to go through both the judges ruling and district court review within that same time period.

    The only reason I have heard that may make sense is if she heard something during the Purdue appeals court hearing (back in April) that gave her pause.  There could be other reasons, but I haven't heard a good explanation.  She definitely doesn't want this plan to be rejected and if the appeals court either rejects or approves Purdue, she could use that language as guidance on the BSA plan.  That should help avoid loss at appeal.

    In any case, only she knows why it is taking this long.  Hopefully we hear an answer soon.  Claimants need to start the next steps of closure and BSA needs to implement their post bankruptcy plan.  

    I agree with your comment that is almost has to have to do with Purdue.

    My question is can judges talk about similar cases to each other legally? What if she knew what the likely outcome of Purdue is and is waiting to be 100% sure before she rules.

    Everything I have seen where following the court she has been very professional and I am sure she realizes this case could end BSA depending on the outcome. 

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