ThenNow

The hope I had for this working out where no one is "happy," but the outright weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth is avoided is fading. To me, that amounts to a successful negotiation. Intransigence on so much as one side is often the death knell. I think the image is coming into view. I still have some hope, however. It "springs eternal."

I appreciate the personal example. For me, this better clarifies the situation that lead to and continues to tank the BSA. In that light, no one should be surprised Scouting is where it is. It changes my mind a bit. Systemic rot, like leadership ignoring and punishing the rank and file for speaking up, is nearly impossible to reform. The Plan now makes perfect sense.

I will stop with this. You guys know what's what.

Anonymity in the press is allowed and not an impotent option. If you perceive it a dead horse, no use for you to whip it regardless your concern for your boys. I get that. I realize you're convinced of the collapse.

I appreciate that. I know my suggestion/question seemed directed at YPT bc it was the topic within which I posted it. Sorry. I also mean the desire to see National loosen its grip on HABs in favor of preserving local camps. I know that's not a universally held view here, but for me it's a point heard only on this forum. I know I am not "steeped in this," though. It sounds like you're weary of trying, perhaps. The way I am, I would be screaming at this point, even if into the wind. Sometimes it actually has good results. Others, I just get hoarse and my wife puts me in the basement with a heavy

No windmill tilters, smooth stone slingers or boat brass polishers?

Has anyone (any of you) put together a list of recommendations that could be forwarded those responsible for monitoring, overseeing and enforcing YPT? Again, I'm a survivor and, assuming Scouting continues, if there are solid actionable recommendations I would appreciate it if someone would trumpet and champion them. I realize many of you said National doesn't listen to you, but are there other approaches? Joint letters, petitions and/or communication with the press? There is always the risk of personal backlash, I guess, but is it worth it to lead and possibly see change enacted? If the BSA h

Whew. Gained a foot. The ones we always built were sky-scraping dinosaurs, I suppose.

Time out. No dodgeball and no pioneering structure taller than 5 feet? Oh, my. ThenNow is more apt than I ever imagined. Reengage on the whistle.

Acknowledged, but it has less of an edge on it when one puts it in context of being the universal concern. It's the only issue for most bk creditors, because they don't often have an interest in non-monetaries like this.

To be fair, I believe he said that is the two-verse tune sung by any/all creditors. "They only want to know one/two things..." He was not speaking only or specifically about/for survivors or the TCC. I could be wrong.

"More beneficial"? Yikes. Maybe both/and, I'm thinkin. How much is spent on background checks per year and how much more is needed? $1.4B cover it?

Ok. I appreciate that and I'm not being snarky. However, whenever I hear the "father knows best" approach, it makes me nervous. I'm not a fan of decision and justification by technocrats or experts left to their own narrow devices. As a survivor, I think this will require a serious 360 degree review and an engaged "management by walking around" process, as it was once known. My view, of course.

Ok. I understand. What I don't get is that "guys in the field" see not only the need for improvement but ways to do it, yet the official Plan filed by the BSA didn't include anything to speak to the issue. On top of the fight over possible restricted asset shell games, the non-commitment commitment to "asking the LCs for a voluntary contribution" and the crickets on YPT, one must be able to see why the Plan went over "like a fart in church," as someone said way back when. I'd say more like a simultaneous blowout diaper by triplets, but that's just me.

I assume you're not saying you've spoken with them lately, but do you have any idea why they completely passed on addressing "anything to make it better" in the Plan?

Could either of you give detail or substantiation to the view of National? CS didn't say experts weren't involved in creating it, rather that it's being view as A-Ok now. Is it hunky dory or does it need hard analysis and updating? As a claimant, the fact that they did not address it at all in their Plan is an act of conscious omission or denial of a need for improvement, since they know full well the TCC wants something done to improve safety and reduce incidents.

Did this happen during the creation of the program? I'm not poking at the process, I just have no idea.

Well said. As to the last sentence, there are many of us who would be more than happy to accommodate. I'm one of them.

Yeah. Getting access to a redacted report on each of those claims, assuming they are actually specific enough to see what went wrong, is the start. Agreed on risk managers and theoretical experts. If it looks great on paper but but the weight ratios mean it can't get off the ground, that's a problem. It just seems so doable to present an improvement plan that I'm baffled by what looks from my chair to be denial or disinterested complacency. Maybe these numbers were needed to get off the dime.

You guys deal with the application of YPT and have now seen the number of claims filed since it was put in place, such as they are. Do you see/have specific ideas on how it can be improved without choking the life out of programming and the routine interactions with Scouts? Has anyone, National or otherwise, done an assessment and review?

I just sent that to my family and told them they have to make their selection now. My baby sister wants to see the daily special or hazard the chef’s choice.

Sure, but not ignorance without malice or negligence. Hm. I believe there’s a “choose one” menu. It includes a loop of the most sleep-inducing homily you EVER heard complete with a poke in the ribs every time you start to nod, a never ending stint in the closet with the incense censer going full blast, serving 6:15 mass in continual successive rotation or replaying the time you spoke way to loud in the confessional only to discover your classmates overheard every sin you confessed that week. Okay. I’ll stop, but you started it...

Oh, gosh. I hope the book doesn't contain all prospects for unintended omissions and/or commissions. If I get there, the unfortunate soul behind me better have fetched along a book, some whittling, lunch and coffee. At least. Maybe a sleeping bag.

I am sorry that this is the case and I agree. It's terrible, but my wife and sons also paid dearly for destructive things they did not do, deserve or play any part in unleashing. Perhaps even worse than if I caused it, the debt was created by injustices done to me. Nonetheless, they inherited it. Awful on all counts.

I understand and appreciate that, and don't care to meddle in the projections of how what happens when and by what vote. I'm no good at it. I am merely pointing out, which I know some don't or won't believe, that this is not a "battle" these men entered into with bloodthirsty glee. I realize you are talking about the practical application, as you absolutely should. How someone feels or doesn't is irrelevant to that equation, but the TCC is people, not the Death Star. It's okay to portray them as such, but I've chimed in with my two denarii.