Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by ThenNow

  1. 2 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

    To have only 82000 victims the stat would have to be 1 in 1400 which would be a fairytale


    2 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

    7000 known abusers with 25 victims is 175,000 with 50 is 350,000 which is a nightmare so what would the stat for how many were caught vs got away with it?  Lets say 1 in 4 were caught that would be between 700,000 to 1.4 million.

    Yup. That’s what I’m talkin’ about, Willis. Now we’re cooking with Hickory!

  2. 8 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:
    26 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

    2) The stat is 1 in 6 men will be sexually abused. For our purposes, let’s say it’s 1 in 12;

    lets try 1 in 100 and then maybe 1 in 300

    26 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

    3) BSA has had 115M minor Scouts since inception; and

    At 1 in 100  115 M scouts =1,150,000 victims

    At 1 in 200 115 M scouts = 575,000 victims

    To that I’m all like, “BAM! IN YO FACE!” 

    Thanks, John. (They don’t know that you were a plant and we set that up. Came off beautifully. No we didn’t, but I ran numbers and knew it would be way better with the dramatic pause as we waited for the big reveal. I’m so clever. Pah.)

    • Haha 1
  3. 21 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

    I have seen where the BSA has said 130 M  and others have used 100 M.

    Everybody hold tight while I get this out.

    That’s what I thought. This is where I’m all like, ya know, I go all Will Robinson Robot, “Does not compute. Does not compute...” There are a bunch of pretty bright people on this forum and not just a couple men of science and numbers. How do we even think about balking at 82,500 claims for child sexual abuse when:

    1) Statistics indicate sexual abusers abuse approximately 100 victims in their period of active predation. Remember, sexual abuse is not limited to touching. It starts at elements that constitute “grooming” (did I just babble?), distribution of alcohol and pornography, and, etc.;

    2) The stat is 1 in 6 men will be sexually abused. For our purposes, let’s say it’s 1 in 12;

    3) BSA has had 115M minor Scouts since inception; and

    4) BSA knew about 7000+ abusers that were revealed and no one knows how many abuser names were purged. That count indicated 12,000+ victims.

    In light of this data, which I don’t believe is disputed, someone with a brain better than mine do the math. Please. We want you to prove that 82,500 claims of child sexual abuse over the 100+ years of Scouting is a fairytale concocted by bad lawyers and fraudsters. Call me when the numbers drop.

  4. 36 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    I also personally know, and there are others here who have similarly indicated, they they personally know victim who opted NOT to file a claim for a host of reasons.

    In short, we know that

    a) 82,500 is the number of unique claims filed and

    b) that even that number is an undercount of total claims, much less abuse.

    What is the accepted number of BSA Scouts since inception? 

  5. 18 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

    We also have evidence that some claims may not be true.  Whether that is one or many has not been answered but those will decrease that number.  Once again, even if there are ten times the number reported, the incidence is less than 1%.  It means that other organizations should be scrutinizing anyone with access to children.

    I respect you, but this continued argument is both irrelevant and echoes the parable of the “speck and the log.” This thread is about the BSA Chapter 11. No one other. That Chapter 11 was and is being driven by the fact of historic, concealed and denied child sexual abuse in BSA. Do other youth-serving organizations deserve to be scrutinized? Of course. Do I care about that right here, right now for the purposes of this discussion? Nope.

    ”Mom! I know I threw the ball through the garage window, but I think Brother chipped the bathroom sink! You need to look at that!”

    ”Hey, officer. I know I was going ten over, but did you see that guy two minutes ago in the new Tesla? He had to be going 90+! I bet you can still catch him.”

    Relative righteousness is a non-existent state of moral relativism. Comparatively less or equivalent guilt is guilt nonetheless. Let’s just examine the log, while we’re at it.  

    • Upvote 3
  6. 31 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

    There is remarkable research by Harvard Med School professors that involved MRI brain scans of adult survivors of sexual abuse that show how the developing brain was altered by the stress hormones. I’ll dig out the article. 

    I am happy to link to actual peer reviewed research, too. Maybe we go to another thread, though, based on experience here, most survivors stay here. Lots more bk banter and details. I was trying to give a lay person’s summary from a treatment center. They do that well because they are marketing via getting people to understand both the problems and treatment modalities. 

  7. 5 hours ago, MattR said:

    My understanding is that parts of our brains, the older parts, are wired towards loyalty towards community. So that part of the brain is keeping the victim from leaving the situation. The newer parts of the brain, including the parts that control reason and speech, you might think would just say "hey, this is a bad situation, leave!" but the two parts don't really talk to each other very well. Consequently there's a huge tension, words and reasoning don't work, and the result is PTSD and all the things we've been told about by the victims on this forum. My impression is that a compassionate community is probably the biggest type of help for the victims. The trauma makes a lot of changes in the brain and, again, just my impression, but it takes a lot of effort to rewire the brain.

    There so much more to this and I know it’s been suggested to go elsewhere with this topic/thread. I’d love to do that, if anyone else is interested. MCVAStory has posted other great stuff, as I recall. For what it’s worth to anyone:

    (Excerpt. See link that follows the quotes section.)

    How Does the Brain Change from Sexual Trauma?

    During the traumatic experience, your sympathetic nervous system releases stress hormones throughout your brain, preparing to fight, flee or freeze. During sexual assault, your mind and body are in survival mode, trying to get through the event and process later.

    But it’s the “after” part where your brain undergoes biological changes similar to that of a combat fighter or first responder struggling with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). 

    These changes start with the continued activation of the sympathetic nervous system.

    In less extreme circumstances after a stressful or threatening situation, the parasympathetic nervous system takes over to reduce stress hormones and bring your brain back into equilibrium. In cases of traumatic sexual abuse, though, the sympathetic nervous system continues to release stress hormones, fatiguing the body and mind.

    The brain also undergoes changes in two key parts of the brain: the amygdala and the hippocampus:

    The Amygdala – After trauma from sexual abuse, the amygdala, an almond-shaped mass deep within the brain, becomes overstimulated. It associates your traumatic experience with specific emotions and falsely identifies seemingly harmless situations or individuals as threats.

    The Hippocampus – Opposite from the amygdala, the hippocampus actually becomes less active after a traumatic experience. Stress hormones from the sympathetic nervous system kill cells in the hippocampus, weakening its ability to consolidate memories and recognize that the traumatic experience occurred in the past and is no longer a threat.

    There is also research that suggests that sexual trauma can impact the brain’s ability to recognize and feel sensations. In a study published in the American Journal of Psychiatry, researchers found that sexual abuse changes the brain’s somatosensory cortex, the area of the brain responsible for creating sensations and perceptions from input from the body.

    This can lead to decreased sexual sensation and desire and even chronic pain in the areas of the body that were involved with the abuse.



  8. 1 hour ago, Muttsy said:

    This was not a conspiracy but it was an agreement the effect of which leaves 50,000 victims out in the cold. 

    I am N.O.T. saying it’s so, Joe, but this has been part of my drip, drip drivel and fear. I’ve said it a number of times. I believe the TCC has sincere intentions to see it doesn’t happen, as per the Shading of the Map, but...

    “Come here little boy. It’s safe to come out of your warm, cozy house. Tell me about your fears and nightmares and the bad, bad man/men. I will give you popcorn and candy. You’ll feel better, I promise. That’s it. There we are. I know it’s hard but...”


    * CLICK*

    “Oh, oh. So very, very sorry. You’ve gotten yourself locked out, haven’t you? Terribly sad. Now, the Child Catcher has your secrets. Oh, my goodness.” (More like, extreme badness.)

    Again, I am N.O.T. alleging this, but it has been my fear. As I said early and often, if the Shades of Gray fellas in high socks and long shorts are kicked out into the dark woods, shame will be on someone’s head (or several someones).

    • Like 1
  9. 3 hours ago, PeterHopkins said:

    The situation the BSA currently faces is particularly difficult for me. As a child, I was severely abused and neglected at home. Scouting was my safe place. I hope that's what it will be in the future for any youth who wants to participate.

    I am truly, truly sorry for the abuse you and the others who posted suffered at home. Unfortunately, I know that as well. I say this not to lessen the importance of your trauma or elevate my experience in any way. I am very glad you had Scouting and found what you needed as a foundation for your life. As a young boy, I believe I was attempting the same, but waded into the wood chipper.

    My dad was badly physically abused by his mother, which pattern often repeats. He was the oldest son, as am I. (What he passed on to me was not nearly what he suffered, thankfully.) I joined Cub Scouts and did not find any connection having a woman leader. Frankly, I hated it. Felt like being babysat. My mom was ok enough, still hit me in the face and such, but I was looking for a man who would mentor me, with all that meant to a small boy who didn’t even know what “mentor” meant. I think this made the impact of my abuse that much more grave. This is not uncommon and I’ve heard the fact pattern repeated often with boys in need of a “father figure.” I’ve heard it told by one of the TCC members who lost his father at an early age. He and his mother fell prey to a monster who viciously manipulated that loss, pain and vulnerability. 

    • Upvote 1
  10. 10 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:


    I officially have a fan as do others including @ThenNow


    First Dr. Kennedy’s encoded shoutout, now this! I know what to do. Since I used to manage artists and such, I will take on myself doubling my client base. My firm is booming! Pah. I wonder if I should engage a copy editor for my new client. Hm. Managing a big practice is complex and exhausting.

    • Haha 4
  11. 34 minutes ago, skeptic said:

    Seems to me that was very early, and was part of the court direction that they solicit for victims in some manner.  I could be mistaken, as that was now years ago.

    Yes. You’re right. I am admittedly an outlier. I was not a survivor who was geared/teed/lawyered up in state court and I didn’t see a single ad or solicitation. No telemarketers. No contact via NESA. Nada. All I saw was Mosby’s announcement via the WSJ and I dove in. Off to Delaware I went. I know the net was cast wide and other parties (TCC, etc.) had a role in that, I believe. I was initially hopeful they really meant “all abuse survivors” would receive “equitable compensation.” I am starting to feel I was very naive. I still think Muttsy’s point is still well taken. You feed those you invite to the table with what you promised or it’s a vicious bait and switch. I’m not talking the legal side, so no one send your legal goons to mug me, please. 

  12. 3 hours ago, IWasAbusedinScouting said:

    Unless its happened to you, you cannot ever understand it.

    Thank you for your post, your passion and the pushback. Much appreciated. I do hope you have heard other voices here, survivors and Scouters, who have champion the cause of victims. I and several others of our cohort are here. We will continue to speak our minds and our hearts, whatever the reaction or backlash. Thank you, again.

  13. 5 hours ago, Muttsy said:

    Everyone seems to forget that it was BSA that solicited survivors to come forward from EVERY state regardless of the SOL rules of that state.  Why

    If you’re reading my posts - I flatter myself you are - I have forgotten. I’ve have been pounding on this very issue. It doesn’t seem to have a lot of impact. They chose the language and printed the “come one, come all” gilded invitation.

  14. 2 minutes ago, David CO said:

    (Raising my hand and waving it wildly in the air)

    Ooh!  Me, me, pick me!!!

    I’m thinking those who’ve repeatedly equated him with certain members of the animal kingdom and vigorously defended BSA might get picked ‘first team all stars’ this round, my friend. Who knows, maybe he’ll post and let us all know.

  15. 4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    The bankruptcy court cannot suddenly make valid a claim that, under state law, is invalid. If you claim is time-barred under state law, the bankruptcy court isn't suddenly going to make it so.

    That's why the "Gray" system was put in place to address those instances where it may or may not be possible, statutes of limitation notwithstanding, to press a civil case. And even then it is of questionable legality.

    If those “invalid” claims are wholesale set aside, this will have been a farce, wrapped in a disaster, shrouded in a catastrophe, encased in a moral outrage. My disgust will know no bounds. It will be a horrible miscarriage for so many. Yet again, I go back to Mosby’s statement and the wording I previously analyzed.


    4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    Option 1 is attorneys for claimants in states where there is no time bar would file in opposition to the effort to allow those with claims to file. Attorneys for claimants in states with a time bar oppose. The two attorney groups would literally not be allowed to interact with each other on the case anymore. That might be really easier if the attorneys are in completely different states. The California office files one thing (no time bar) and the PA folks file in opposition.

    Hypothetical. You now live in CA, contacted and work with one of their CA attorneys. Your abuse happened in MN. Now, your attorney turns against you and files to bar your claim. That’s a wicket of the sticky variety.

  17. 16 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

    I think brief is the correct term? @ThenNow?

    Well, as a non-litigator, I believe they would be in the form of objections to the RSA or Plan, for example, as has been the case with the firms already mentioned. How would your firm do that? I’m guessing they’re staunchly on the side of the TCC and Coalition arguing that all claims stay in until the Trustee gets ahold of them, which avoids the dilemma. I think.

    What he said. ;)  It’s possible they’re already in agreement with the TCC, et al.

  18. Just for gee whiz and because I’ve not had other occasion to share this, behold my favorite excerpt from the AIS website. I mean no harm or offense to those of us represented by AIS, but it makes me chuckle. Here ya go:

    ...the streamlined nature of settlement process may mean abuse survivors will get the compensation they deserve more quickly and efficiently than having future individual trial dates.

    Pah. At least they said, “may.” 


  19. 2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    One of the reasons: some victims filed multiple claims.

    One fella filed 13, as it was told to me. That defines thorough, manic or faulty short-term memory. Or, intentionally on purpose to maximize potential return, like buying a bunch of raffle tickets, maybe? 

    • Upvote 1
  20. 4 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

    I very much doubt that the fact you may have a burglary or assault conviction on your file means that it is a false claim.  

    Agreed. It’s actually contradictory to the science and the POC which asks about trouble with the law as a (potential) direct consequence of the abuse. That’s why it was a question in the Official POC.

  21. 15 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    I would not include those in the false claim category and clearly no audit is needed for those.  

    Right. That’s why I used “invalid.”

    13 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    It was listed as a hearing on a pro hac vice motion filed a year ago. Either Omni glitched or the judge just had a hearing on the motion which lasted .5 seconds since no one objects to these things.

    Glitch confirmed. 

  22. 2 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

    What would the standards be for a fraudulent/false claim?

    Maybe CS would cut and paste from the discovery motion. They don’t make any bones about facially defective claims (lacking critical details), those found to be fraudulently filed (outright lies, critically contradictory assertions...shown by some research they’ve done or will do), filed/signed improperly (however that gets defined). Time-barred being its own category of “invalid” on its face, per the insurers. 

    • Upvote 1
  • Create New...