Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by ThenNow

  1. 24 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    I thought the same. She could have just left it at how sad the letters were.  I read a lot of the letters, most do not say she needs to save the BSA ... so I was surprised she picked those.

    I was wondering if she was attempting to send a signal where she was headed.  I just wonder if the Coalition thought ... let's try and get the best "voluntary" offer from the BSA before they get a ruling from the judge.   If the judge continues exclusivity, I think that is a sign she is headed to approving the BSA plan. 


    If we go in that direction at the objection of all claimant representatives, at some point I will be on the horn with every news outlet I can reach who will listen. I know a number of reporters who will.

    Her apparent lack of empathy boggles me. I believe she has a son. On one of the early hearings I seem to recall her mentioning her less than skilled use of the Zoom technology. Something to the effect of, "If you see someone come on screen and help me, that will be my son." Anyone else hear that? Can't she see that he could've been one of us?

  2. 40 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    When she mentioned the letters, she said she couldn't read them all, but she emphasized that several indicated they want the BSA to survive.  She seems more focused on BSA's survival than maximizing a payout for claimants.


    Having been on all the hearings, this is near the top of my greatest disappointments. I'm not happy with BSA, LCs, COs and insurers. 100% accurate. But the judge? See doesn't seem to "get it." It being why BSA is in this mess. Not reading the letters and/or cherry-picking and highlighting that "several indicated they want the BSA to survive" is cowardly and not judge-like imho. It's neither balanced nor  equitable. Hear us. BSA and the others have gone on AD NAUSEATING. If I had my way, there would be a full day of live testimony from survivors describing their experiences, including how the bankruptcy has and is effecting us. I would sign up in heartbeat and am more than willing to be vetted by anyone of the parties, provided I can't be excluded other than challenge for legitimate cause. BSA surviving is neither here nor there in my request and feeling. A fair and full hearing of all "sides" is all I want before this lunacy goes any further.

    PS - I know. I know. I'm wishing on a shooting star...

  3. 1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

    The difference is in terms of valuation of the claim: yes, I lost 3 fingers and so should get roughly 3 times as much as the person who lost 1 finger. But that just gets us back to the value of the loss of a finger over a lifetime/50 years.

    I agree with you on the explanation. On this specific point, however, there's more to it than that (as you know). Three lost fingers on the left hand of Andres Segovia are "worth" more than the same three fingers on the hand of right-handed painter. Unfortunate, but true. Valuations have to factor lost income over those 50 years, enormously impacting the valuation matrix. That said, creating a baseline is tricky, but doable, I think. One the BSA side, some relative values are at least partially hidden within those mysterious settlement records.

  4. 37 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

    I keep hearing and heard in the NAM presentation the words "adequate compensation" yet what gets put on the table seems to me to be far less than adequate.  So I pose this to the forum...What does "adequate compensation" equate to you? I am very curious what those who were not abused have to say and how that would be compared to a survivors perspective.

    Well, more slight of hand at play. It started out with the mantra of "equitable compensation," which was repeated multiple times. It has since degraded. Equitable means fair and just, in the law. "Adequate" means, like my dad would say, "That oughta do. It's the best we're gonna get it, I think." Me thinks the two-pronged goal of the bankruptcy has whittled down to 1.25-pronged. You pick which which is which.

    February 18, 2020

    "The BSA cares deeply about all victims of abuse and sincerely apologizes to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting. We are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to harm innocent children,” said Roger Mosby, President and Chief Executive Officer. “While we know nothing can undo the tragic abuse that victims suffered, we believe the Chapter 11 process – with the proposed Trust structure – will provide equitable compensation to all victims while maintaining the BSA’s important mission.”


    • Upvote 1
  5. 12 hours ago, Muttsy said:

    Fraudulent Concealment tolling opened the door in Idaho for example. It is a federal court ruling. It is likely to be followed in many states. 

    the Idaho case is the Judge Winmill decision. https://casetext.com/case/doe-v-boy-scouts-of-am-6

    I strongly encourage all closed state survivor claimants to read and review this case and the others previously mentioned. If you're represented by counsel, ask your attorney(s) if they considered them. It may be worth the time and effort, as my dad used to say.  

  6. 1 hour ago, 100thEagleScout said:

    Still, this is not a good day for BSA.  Especially any council with claims from the last 5-10 years.  Those councils’ staff are mega screwed if they didn’t follow proper protocol to the letter.

    Agreed. I was just saying it's a "win" regardless the eventual deliverables. 

  7. 44 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    From what I have read, the rumor is the TCC is not being included in the negotiations.  Essentially, the BSA has collected a group of claimant representatives >50% and is working with them on a settlement.  There may be some truth as the Coalition agreed to delay the hearing but the TCC objected. 

    Does anyone know if the TCC is actively part of the current mediation or are the being excluded?  I know the target is 66%, but I wonder if the judge would accept >50% yes votes and if BSA has identified a path to yes with 42,001 claimants.  There could be a lot out there that are just looking for a quick payout.

    I have no definitive answer, but if either are true this would constitute a horrendous miscarriage of this process. A classic end around in search of a slight of hand score. Regardless, I would be shocked and disgusted if the judge allowed a reduction in the required vote. 

  8. 5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    Here's the question: to what end?

    For my money, the 3 P's: Purely PR and Public Pressure. The press release on the MI investigation is itself powerful. Sure, I'd love all the substantive outcomes, but I've lived long enough not to hold my breath when something spurs a flutter of hope me bosom. Let's see what happens when 5, 10 or 15 states hop on the chuckwagon...

  9. 1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

    This might be the start of more states AG's opening investigations especially those that might need to garner public positivity.  Could Gavin Newsom here in California who needs to distract attention from his recall ask the AG here to help him out?

    AG Bonta plays himself as "the peoples' attorney" and has been a legitimate activist. It would be reasonable to think he might do something like this.

  10. 10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    But just like I would hope that BSA supporters would not rally to email flood the attorneys for the TCC, the Coalition, or others in an effort to pressure those lawyers, I would hope that supporters of CSA victims will not do the same.

    It won't do any good and might be counterproductive (if, for example, Schiovoni cites it in future pleadings to suggest he is being targeted/harassed).

    100%. I believe the "combatants" are set in the arena, representing their respective constituencies and clients, and a barrage from outside the walls won't do much more than increase delay and run up fees. 

    Edit: Bombing Chubb is on their dime, though. Flooding their attorney's inbox seems less than productive. Go directly to the court or his client, if at all. My OPINION only.

  11. 8 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

    I am sure you are correct and we all know that reading emails to that address is not something he actually does.  Only after an assistant screens them.

    I've directly emailed some of the big cheese attorneys on this case. Replies came from their designated email opening, unimportant email responding, please make this person go away, step and fetch it associate.

    • Like 1
  12. 8 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

    also agree she is probably clueless about the substance or scope of what she has publicly albeit vaguely committed her office. Again, that’s ok. We should urge the TCC to assist her. 

    My rough calculations are between 3000-4000 of the claimants of the 84000 were abused in Michigan. 

    You both confirmed my sense of it.

    Next question: Will the Coalition, AIS and state attorneys encourage their clients to flood the hotline? Ditto the TCC? She may have committed herself to getting overwhelmed, not unlike the BSA and this court.

    • Upvote 1
  13. If there are any Michigan Scouters here, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the AG's announcement. I have now read various reports and comments she's made and there is some lack of precision. I'm now not 100% sure if she's targeting the organization or individual abusers, per the claims filed.

    My friend just told me that BSA assured him the "incident details" of all claims from 1990 to date have been duly reported to law enforcement. That doesn't comport with the statement they made after the AG's announcement. At the least, the latter was artfully deceptive.

  14. Another article with a bit more info.


    I find this interesting and questionable, based on my experience both weeks before and after filing my POC. I had several discussions with attorneys at headquarters and other functionaries handling survivor calls. What I was told more than once is they are making sure the alleged abusers named are on their internal list and reported to local law enforcement. When I said I had interacted with the local Sheriff's Dept in 2003-2004 about my abuser, they said, "since you've already notified law enforcement we don't need to do it." They didn't seem to mind it was 17-18 years ago.

    Are they really and truly, pinky swear reporting all the "incidents described in the bankruptcy claims" to law enforcement? That would be great, but I don't buy it. Who's doing that, the LCs? The hotline people? How many total claims across the state of MI?

    "The youth organization also said it requires all employees and volunteers to "promptly report any allegation or suspicion of abuse to law enforcement so that allegations can be investigated by experts," and asserted that incidents described in the claims filed in its bankruptcy case "have already been reported to local Michigan law enforcement." 

    • Upvote 1
  15. 21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

    Every indication is that they (BSA) are playing this off as if the target(s) is/are the ABUSERS, not BSA as a corporate entity.

    So, technically, the lead should be the SE and Council President of MI Crossroads? If the LCs are 100% separate and distinct entities, why did they "defer to National"? Hmmm...

    If that is the play, they didn't watch her video or, if they did, don't understand the criminal investigation process and the nature of a joint operation like the one she's launched.

    • Upvote 2
  16. 5 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

    This is the basis given in the press release. Do you know the reference or is it the bankruptcy?

    "...to obtain information surrounding sex abuse allegations that came to light during recent civil litigation"

    Yup. This is the case:

    "The investigation was prompted by wide reports of alleged abuse that came to light during the national nonprofit's bankruptcy case, Attorney General Dana Nessel said in a video released by her office."




    • Thanks 1
  17. 5 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    I have to believe MSU and Nasser come to mind.  They cannot be caught flat footed again.

    This is the basis given in the press release. Do you know the reference or is it the bankruptcy?

    "...to obtain information surrounding sex abuse allegations that came to light during recent civil litigation"

    • Thanks 1
  18. 1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

    They did the same with the Catholic Church.   I expect they will start with search warrants soon.  You will see pictures of agents going into all scout offices and pulling files out. 

    The good news is that I expect leaders and anyone who covered it up to be charged and probably go to prison.   Michigan charged a priest for assaults dating back to the 1970s.

    Since I'm not familiar with the other cases or the Michigan AG's motive and politics, I'm very curious how/why this is happening in this time and space. From my experience in other businesses and top level insurance brokerage through my wife, these are often political animals looking for a crusade to win. I'd love the backstory, if anyone has insight. I recognize this could be a 100% justice motivated and that would be great. I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm glad it's being done, yet curious.

  19. On 5/20/2021 at 10:16 AM, qwazse said:

    As I went to morning coffee with my grandson on my back, we heard the click and remote-start of a car. I explained to him that in our day we opened the door and sat down before starting the engine. Not sure how much he understood of that, but my scoutmaster minute to you is that these generations are ready to go before the door is even unlocked. A lot of institutions previously relied on generations of members willing to mold to them. A post-modern nomad seeks out organizations who mold to him/her.

    Ok. I just cut and pasted this into my running journal of highly insightful things I wish I was wise enough to recognize and write eloquently. There is an entire book to write in that one paragraph. If written, I might be able to put it on my shelf with "Amusing Ourselves to Death," "Life: The Movie," and "Why We Don't Talk to Each Other Anymore."

    • Thanks 1
  20. 14 minutes ago, gpurlee said:

    Just because of sheer membership numbers, it would not be unexpected that they would have  a large number of claims. 

    I understand that statistically, but I doubt the AG has that data. It is more the impression of the thing, than the substance I was noting. Just wondering out loud. If the XYZ family has the most absentee days on the school roster on the hallway bulletin board, unless you know they're Irish Catholic farmers with 15 kids it looks dicey.

    Btw, I'm Irish Catholic from farm country so I can say that.

    • Upvote 1
  • Create New...