ThenNow

That is accurate. For what's it worth, I am 60. My Scout Master/abuser is ten years older than I am. In 1971, he traveled across our town to a troop in need of a leader and got the job. He was 20. If I was visiting my mother, I could knock on his door, he'd welcome me and offer me a beer. He always did. Well, unless of course, he's finally quaking in his boots. Unknown to him, I started my effort to prosecute him - with no intent or effort to pursue civil action against anyone - 20 years ago.

It had nothing to do with trying to convince you, a den mother, a Scout or anyone else. I don't believe that's what I've been doing or attempted to do here. I wanted to offer a respectful and thoughtful response from my experience. You raised great points in both posts and I wanted to ponder and engage the various elements. I believe you meant it to read well on my end, but I can't say it did. Rather harsh, but I am the outlier here and, at times, that is clear. I was aware of when I started to post and take it for what it is. Happy to take my ball and jax and leave the playground.

All good points and I do understand. I try not to be unreasonable or irrational, driven only by my situation and experience. It would take me a good bit to adequately and substantively reply to such an excellent articulation. It deserves a full, thoughtful and proper answer. I'll see if I can do that offline and loop back.

I understand from following the forum that many here do not support SOL reform for child sexual abuse. That said, the most active and influential organization working toward these changes is CHILD USA. You will find most information at their site and via their organization. The founder and principal force is law professor Marci Hamilton. https://childusa.org/

As with the LC's and SO's, insurers know that some/many of those otherwise time-barred claims derived from states where Victims Rights Act legislation is pending. 18 states have a pending VRA that creates a lookback 'revival' window. Also, insurers value certainty and clarity of liability. Both factors add some motivation and incentive to come to the table. I have other thoughts, but that may take me beyond what I am willing to share publicly.

Yes, it is quite possible that the Plan, as initially proposed, is widely disfavored. Then, it will get pushed and pulled. That's what I'm anticipating and I think they will be filing it sooner rather than well into March. The judge will be loathe to cramdown in this case.

Most of the large firms and consortiums are getting 40% in this matter. As a retired attorney and claimant in this case, I find it ghastly. Also, this Chapter 11 cannot be compared to mustering and advancing complex civil litigation or a significant tort case, class action or otherwise. There is considerably less lawyering to be done. Where is the long process of drafting complaints and early motions then discovery - interrogatories, document requests, depositions, witness gathering, trial prep and, etc.? It's almost non-existent. The 'complaint' was a 12-page check the box with additional lines for brief narrative. It's telling that a fair number of survivors completed the Proof of Claim without counsel. It wasn't needed. Very unique, as well, is the existence of an plaintiffs/claimants advocacy group, here the TCC. For the most part, they arguably represent the best interest of all claimants and carry the water. The majority of attorneys and firms don't have to do anything to advance the process. Admittedly, the other mediation parties are working hard and investing a great deal of time and resources. The TCC could be considered the 'lead plaintiff' as in a class action, but they get no additional consideration or award for their efforts. Plus, there are 9 of them and the Debtor/defendant pays their legal fees. Okay. I'll stop. Maybe that helps.

Any Reorganization Plan that excludes all of the state SOL time-barred claims will not pass and the BSA will move to liquidate. No one other than TK, et al., wants that. In my assessment, after the discovery to whatever degree it is allowed, the legitimate sexual abuse survivor claimants, including the 54,400 you note, will have a vote. Let's see if the soon to be released Plan makes any note of how the otherwise time-barred claims will be classified or treated. As an abuse survivor claimant, I don't believe all 54,400 of those claims were vetted and legitimate. That is partly gut and sniff test, partly an attorney's assessment after reviewing as many of the filings as I've had time to review. There are just too many 'fast and loose' tactics were involved in mining these claims, not the least of which is having a single attorney sign hundreds of claims in rapid succession on a single day or series of days. I truly hope Judge Silverstein slaps them down for it, as she warned she would. Anyway... The BSA made it loud and clear and public that they were gathering all current, pending and potential claims into the Chapter 11, without caveat or condition. Set aside the SOL element, since this is not a state court litigation, and read what they said. Any effort to discard all of these claims, if otherwise sound and vetted, will be a complete and utter PR disaster. I will be part of the effort to make that a reality, if they try it. Roger Mosbey: The BSA...has filed...Chapter 11...to achieve two key objectives: equitably compensate victims who were harmed during their time in Scouting...[the BSA] intends to use the Chapter 11 process to create a Victims Compensation Trust that would provide compensation to victims...the proposed Trust structure will provide equitable compensation to all victims..." Jim Turley: "We believe that all victims should receive our support and compensation...the BSA has initiated restructuring to ensure we can equitably compensate all victims of past abuse in Scouting...come forward and file claims so you can receive compensation from this Trust...we believe you and we believe in compensating you." This is not a matter of an easy line item deletion, by any means.

Is there a way to get full access to the article? It is locked, being a member subscription service. Thank you.

I suppose that’s little consolation for you guys. However, state (plaintiffs’) attorneys, National, LC’s, CO’s, and their respective insurance companies are pushing for exclusion of all claims from states that have not enacted Statute of Limitations reform. That would knock out a huge number of abuse victims. In all candor, which I strive to maintain, as one of them I can’t say that is my hoped for outcome. I’m sorry, but it will be very hard to have gone through this and have others with less onerous experiences be the only ones to receive any recompense. Brutally, brutally difficult.

Just FYI, approximately 10,000 Proofs of Claim have been found to be either fraudulent or duplicates.

Correction: That was badly banged up and scarred nickel if ever there was one.

The Sexual Abuse Survivor Proof of Claim Form, at Sec. 4, Sub P H requests, in pertinent part, the "name and location of the organization that hosted meetings of your Scouting unit, during the time of the sexual abuse." Although it includes a caveat that the CO's, "are not currently parties to the bankruptcy," the question wouldn't be in the POC if there was anything other than the intention to pursue them in the same manner as the LC's. The LC's liability/involvement in the bankruptcy is similarly caveated. I realize you are aware of this, but I think the need to defend against asserted culpability and/or contribute to the yet to established Victims' Compensation Trust is coming. The Methodist Church is clearly braced for it. CO's that are oblivious and believe they are only tangentially a part of Scouting will be caught unaware and unprotected. Further, if national is a shell of its former self, including depleted of assets, preemptive claims against the BSA won't mean much. In states where the SL's are lifted or subject to a look back window, the CO's will now be more clearly a target, as they have raised their heads to seek defense by the BSA. Effectively, they have self-identified as parties to the abuse, targets and viable sources of recovery and awards. Again, just my shiny nickel. I'm too verbose for that to qualify as two cents.

Ha! I needed that!

Yup. I watch the payment requests appear on the docket like clockwork. I know both can be flawed, ill-motivated and driven by sweeping 'cattle drive' campaigns for any and all possible claims, valid or not, but this highlights some of the procedural advantages of class actions over mass tort bankruptcies. For example: one class representative for the entire class, putative or certified; a certification process within which a class of "similarly situated" proposed plaintiffs must be at least facially vetted and blessed by the court; one set of attorneys bringing the case; and one team negotiating the settlement on behalf of the class. Contrary to popular belief, the plaintiffs don't always receive the same award. Also, by the by, "similarly situation" doesn't equate to of equal value. It's about how the claim arose and on what basis they were damaged or disadvantaged by the actions/inactions of the defendant(s). Just some more useless information one may or may not care to know.

Gotcha. Thank you. Truly. I’m not a piteous person nor someone who enjoys being an attorney on many days, watching the negative stereotype being solidified in the minds of many. I’ll drone and repeat myself to say that I believe tort reform is so overdue and simultaneously unlikely that I have a pit in my stomach watching what goes on. It’s atrocious. I say that even though my father died of cancer at 63, likely due to years of exposure to toxic chemicals. As to filing a claim in this case, I’ll offer some context. I had been waiting to have some avenue of recourse since after my breakdown in 2001. I pursued all legal angles and, although other abused men were found, vetted and contacted by law enforcement, none were willing to come forward. Each are about 7-10 years younger than I am and live in or near our hometown. I completely understood. For what it’s worth, it never crossed my mind to pursue the BSA, our Local Council or Chartering Organization. Not once. I still have: all my medals; merit badge and OA sashes; pocket patches; neckerchiefs; first draft Eagle Application; some merit badge and rank cards; the panoramic photo of my Vigil honor cohorts and I when we received our new sashes; Summer Camp, Cub Days Staff patches and such; excursion and wilderness patches; my grandfather‘s, father’s and uncle’s Scout knives, along with mine; as well as my dad’s and my Cub and Boy Scout Handbooks. I got rid of that bloody deep sea diver skill award belt, however. All I wanted was a chance to put him in jail. A civil remedy was secondary, at best. The filing on February 18 of this year was the open window and, more than likely, the one and only redress I will ever have. As others have stated and I repeated, I hate that he is not in the mix to stand account for his crimes. Further, again for general gee whiz, I am not represented in this matter, potentially to my financial detriment. I wanted this to be my fight on behalf of my wife and kids, far more than mine. My ‘weapons’ are admittedly blunted and I frustrated and stymied, standing outside the process peering in. As I watch and see what has come of it, the tens of millions of dollars flying out of the door for attorneys multiple times a month, it exacerbates the pain and familiar feelings of powerlessness and being ‘abused’. That may not be relevant or experiential understandable to some, but that’s where I am. I shouldn’t suggest that some of the claims are unfounded, specious or truly contrived, but that’s also the way I feel. I appreciate you guys allowing me to be a part of this. If anyone judges me for what I’m doing, I don’t have a problem with that. None. It may be hurtful, but as my grandpa liked to say, I’m pretty much “touch as a two-dollar steak.”

I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying you would appreciate it if I did or appreciate that I have? Before I address the assertion that I made a “decision to join a massive class action,” which this is not, I’d like to be clear. Thank you. Side note: Is it truly the case that most of the prolific posters here have a close connection to someone who was sexually abused as a child and/or an accused child sexual abuser? I’m surprised, but that means a lot to me, knowing there is that foundation balancing everyone’s perspective.

Well said. A wiser, more pithy distillation would be very difficult to find.

Is this the question?

I wish them well and pray they have less of a ‘body of evidence’ than I and many others do. I’m sure you’re of great support and comfort to them.

I understand your point, temporally. I wonder if you know someone well who was repeatedly sexually abused as a child and told no one for 10, 20, 30 or 40 years. If you knew me, for example, I assure you, you’d see a “body.” There’s enough evidence and wreckage, as I said previously, to render a speedy verdict.

Excellent point as to details of abuse. As to the surrounding facts to establish, timeframe, place and actors, I would still think these elements would be known or discoverable, based on where the claimant lived, the location of the local Troop, and the Troop and LC rolls. Hopefully, someone will at least perform that level of due diligence.

Gotcha! Not a worry. I didn’t mean to be abrupt.

This is an excellent point and, begs another comment. As a survivor, I don't quite understand how someone could remember little or nothing about their abuse/abuser to a degree that they can't provide sufficient detail to allow it to be even limitedly corroborated. I understand it theoretically from the standpoint of repressed, suppressed and faded memories. Personally and experientially, not much is faded or foggy or cloudy or forgotten.

Well, they are in some cases. I'm not sure what you mean. The Chapter 11 is unique because it allows any and all claimant who allege abuse against an adult Scouting volunteer to file, regardless state law or statutes of limitations. That's the focus of this case. I'm not in the weeds on individual cases, but if I have the chance, I will certainly sue him, others, his wife and everyone I can factually and legally justify naming.