ThenNow

The Sexual Abuse Survivor Proof of Claim Form, at Sec. 4, Sub P H requests, in pertinent part, the "name and location of the organization that hosted meetings of your Scouting unit, during the time of the sexual abuse." Although it includes a caveat that the CO's, "are not currently parties to the bankruptcy," the question wouldn't be in the POC if there was anything other than the intention to pursue them in the same manner as the LC's. The LC's liability/involvement in the bankruptcy is similarly caveated. I realize you are aware of this, but I think the need to defend against asserted

Ha! I needed that!

Yup. I watch the payment requests appear on the docket like clockwork. I know both can be flawed, ill-motivated and driven by sweeping 'cattle drive' campaigns for any and all possible claims, valid or not, but this highlights some of the procedural advantages of class actions over mass tort bankruptcies. For example: one class representative for the entire class, putative or certified; a certification process within which a class of "similarly situated" proposed plaintiffs must be at least facially vetted and blessed by the court; one set of attorneys bringing the case; and one team ne

Gotcha. Thank you. Truly. I’m not a piteous person nor someone who enjoys being an attorney on many days, watching the negative stereotype being solidified in the minds of many. I’ll drone and repeat myself to say that I believe tort reform is so overdue and simultaneously unlikely that I have a pit in my stomach watching what goes on. It’s atrocious. I say that even though my father died of cancer at 63, likely due to years of exposure to toxic chemicals. As to filing a claim in this case, I’ll offer some context. I had been waiting to have some avenue of recourse since after my breakd

I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying you would appreciate it if I did or appreciate that I have? Before I address the assertion that I made a “decision to join a massive class action,” which this is not, I’d like to be clear. Thank you. Side note: Is it truly the case that most of the prolific posters here have a close connection to someone who was sexually abused as a child and/or an accused child sexual abuser? I’m surprised, but that means a lot to me, knowing there is that foundation balancing everyone’s perspective.

Well said. A wiser, more pithy distillation would be very difficult to find.

Is this the question?

I wish them well and pray they have less of a ‘body of evidence’ than I and many others do. I’m sure you’re of great support and comfort to them.

I understand your point, temporally. I wonder if you know someone well who was repeatedly sexually abused as a child and told no one for 10, 20, 30 or 40 years. If you knew me, for example, I assure you, you’d see a “body.” There’s enough evidence and wreckage, as I said previously, to render a speedy verdict.

Excellent point as to details of abuse. As to the surrounding facts to establish, timeframe, place and actors, I would still think these elements would be known or discoverable, based on where the claimant lived, the location of the local Troop, and the Troop and LC rolls. Hopefully, someone will at least perform that level of due diligence.

Gotcha! Not a worry. I didn’t mean to be abrupt.

This is an excellent point and, begs another comment. As a survivor, I don't quite understand how someone could remember little or nothing about their abuse/abuser to a degree that they can't provide sufficient detail to allow it to be even limitedly corroborated. I understand it theoretically from the standpoint of repressed, suppressed and faded memories. Personally and experientially, not much is faded or foggy or cloudy or forgotten.

Well, they are in some cases. I'm not sure what you mean. The Chapter 11 is unique because it allows any and all claimant who allege abuse against an adult Scouting volunteer to file, regardless state law or statutes of limitations. That's the focus of this case. I'm not in the weeds on individual cases, but if I have the chance, I will certainly sue him, others, his wife and everyone I can factually and legally justify naming.

I do believe the accused have the right to face their accuser(s) and defend themselves. When dead, that's obviously impossible. Here is something you may or may not find interesting or relevant. This is a theoretical framework hatched in my little brain, based on studying psychology, Complex PTSD derived from long-term child sexual abuse and some elements of the law. See what you think. Statutes of limitations are critical to ensure stale claims/allegations aren't brought to court after witnesses are dead, documents shredded, memories faded, physical evidence tampered with, crime scene co

The only element of accountability being discussed is public disclosure of the names of abusers. I think that's the only thing the Court could order as part of the settlement. I know some survivor claimants and/or attorneys have that goal. As I mentioned, I don't like it for two reasons: (1) if my state creates a look back window by enacting the Victims Rights Act, I want to be able to surprise my abusers with a lawsuit and criminal prosecution; and (2) it doesn't seem right to accuse people publicly after anything less than a proper legal investigation of the allegations. As I mention elsewhe

Claim validation is going to be incredibly complicated with the vast number on file with the Court. If I were cynical, I'd say that was part of the reason one group has gathered so many clients; to choke the system and force an allocation of the Trust by simple division. That creates a scenario where potentially specious claims get validated by virtue of an inability to challenge them. Time just doesn't permit it, if the BSA is going to stop bleeding money to pay lawyers already tapping the estate at every turn. Love them or hate them, the insurance company's lawyers will probably be the most

Indeed. However, large number of current Chapter 11 claimants live in states that have not yet adopted the Victims Rights Act. Without that statutory change, allowing a 'look back' suspension of retrospective statutes of limitations that currently bar such actions, whether civil or criminal, they have no legal recourse. Under the VRA, survivors would be able to pursue claims against their abuser, as well as any Local Councils and Chartering Organizations that do not participate in funding the Victims' Compensation Trust to gain future protection and release of past claims.

You are exactly on point. It seems people don't think much about that, instead focusing on the other two. It is an absolutely critical piece. Further, deterence by virtue of locking the doors and being on high alert isn't completely effective without repercussions. If someone does manage to pass through undetected and commit a crime of abuse, it must be met with the other side of deterence - grave consequences. There is a reason you see surveillance cameras next to statements to the effect that, "Violators will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law." From my reading of massive amou

Excellent point.

We can agree to disagree. From a purely objective - add motive to opportunity and access - assessment, no other organization I can think of has as many vulnerabilities as Scouting. Yes, others "had similar issues," but you would have to combine multiple other youth activities to come up with one year's worth of Scouting. To qualify, this is only my personal experience with Scouting, other youth activities as a child/youth and as a parent. I can only share from what I know and what I've considered, so always open to being wrong. I try to avoid falling into my dad's "often wrong, but never in do

I unequivocally agree. Unfortunately, it is, therefore, the perfect cover for those who have impure motives. It is not only easily explained and justified, but noble. As we all know, or perhaps don't, these people are extremely patient, skillful, instinctual, strategic, and tactical.

Having grown up Catholic (directly across the street from the Cathedral), involved in music, theater and sports, I can offer my view. I also have degrees in sociology and psychology and have considered the question, both on my own and as spurred by the topic interwoven throughout the forum. After considering it for a while, Scouting is unique even amid other many other vulnerable activities involving adults and children, before the late 1980's. It occupies different category because of the sheer range of activities that create opportunity. We had/have swimming, overnight camping, hiking,

You're welcome. I don't know if it adds perspective or helps the discussion in any way.

I believe you're talking about therapists encouraging survivors to disclose the abuse they suffered, as a way to shed light on the past, seek a degree of recompense and gain a measure of closure in the doing of both. If so, that's correct from my experience. Unfortunately, for many in this context, the Chapter 11 is the court of 'last and exclusive resort', bringing large numbers to the table asking for their due. Related to closure and addressing another issue raised above, one of the great inequities here is the inability to include the abusers/perpetrators in this process. It's a bank

Also, I appreciate your sympathy. Yes, I have been in therapy and various treatment modalities for about 20 years. Things went south when our oldest son asked to join Scouts.