CynicalScouter

I offered the alternative argument elsewhere: that JPM and BSA are not hiding anything fraudulent, but incredibly embarrassing, namely, that the debt owed on Summit is actually far, far worse than is being acknowledged (JPM is holding the note on SOME of the debt, but the rest is in those Arrow, WV notes and local government bonds or elsewhere), that it is a big deep hole into BSA has dumped hundreds of millions and is so far underwater it will never, ever see a breakeven point in our lifetimes.

Sure I can. I've sat in on similar conversations. Company officials do NOT want to disclose certain information, so they approach their counsel and ask what defenses they can lodge against disclosure. The attorneys provide the defenses and execute on them. There, the company officials are driving the litigation/defense. The attorneys approach the company officials and advise them they need to avoid disclosure. The company officials agree. There, the attorneys are driving the litigation/defense. To take the West Wing example (which again, is a bad one because it involved CRIMINA

There's a short and long question. The short question is really, really short and easy. The key provision is this in the BSA Charter and Bylaws (and corresponding language in ALL Local Council Charters, Bylaws and/or Articles of Incorporation. Short question: Does this mean that National can on its own volition (or by order of the court) revoke all local charters and seize assets as part of the bankruptcy? If no, end of conversation. If yes.... Longer question: Will the court order/direct the charter revocations and asset seizures?

No one is talking about blaze of glory. The point is that over, and over, and over again BSA has been asked to prove that the Summit Shell Game is legit and fork over the financials. They are refusing every step of the way. Give me a break. Some of this may be legal advice, but it is more likely that they are being advised that the MOMENT the financials are released, the Shell Game is over, so stall, stall, stall as long as you have to and hope they can get one over on the court. That's transparent? That's forthcoming for victims?

Yes, and here's the "but" I can see one limited instance in which this is relevant. If the claim is for, say, $1 million based on the TCC or BSA abuse matrix, and it can be shown that the CO's negligence or the LC's negligence accounted for 75%, then the claim vs. BSA (or rather BSA's insurance?) is down to $250,000. That of course would require a) lengthy determinations as to fault and liability and b) results in BSA National pointing fingers at LCs and COs. It is no wonder then that the COs are filing objections for the reasons noted: BSA's plans (both the toggle and global) c

Because it is clear there's a portion of BSA that is going to defend Summit at all costs, even to the point of losing BSA entirely.

It said cash flow would run out. That's $0.

I want to come back around to something in the latest Century objection that I think @Eagle1993hit on but really needs to be explored, namely the $1500 "nuisance" payouts. Again, because in the end bankruptcy = math, let's use math for a second. 84,000 claimants, you need 56,000 "yes" votes from claimants in order to get an approved settlement BUT that also means it only takes 28,001 to vote "no" and the plan is scuttled. Now, let's posit that the claims come in 4 types Honest, but not valid. Yes the claimant was really abused, but the claim's not valid because the statute

True. I was thinking short-term/keep the doors open for now situation. You are correct there's got to be a 5 year plan as well. But is cash flow = $0, as BSA said in court will occur in August, then you are either selling assets/eating your seed corn or doing mass layoffs and not paying day to day expenses.

Never, in the history of BSA, has there been anything like 1 million new recruits. Even in they days of BoyPower 76 (and the fictional/fraudulent units and scouts created to meet quotas) they didn't get 1 million fake/on paper recruits. So, take that off the table. Right now BSA is at ~750,000, down from 1.2 million. National's fees are $66 and they are going up (yeah, yeah I know the official line is that a fee increase this fall to $72 is only being "discussed", but several councils already let the cat out of the bag). Assume 50% of scouts (mostly Cub Scouts) who left come

Do you really think anyone is going to care, on either side of this, to pay someone to post to this scouter forum? To what end? Holy smokes, this is an online chat forum; NO ONE here is both a) persuadable and b) in a position of authority. But sure. You got me. I'm a BSA operative, but secretly I'm working for the TCC, but that's a cover because really I'm working both sides on behalf of the Illuminati. Shhhhh!!!

See the aforementioned couch cushions. Yep, August is no real "drop dead" date. It means they'll have to sell/liquidate things in order to keep operating, but they can keep going for awhile. All the while bleeding out funds.

Bad assumption. Not a lawyer. That said, and suffice to say without giving away my employer(s), I have been inside courtrooms or law firms as a paraprofessional or court staffer most of my adult life.

Right, so do you need a vote of ALL claimants? Or all claimants who have a VALID claim? If you need/want to limit this to all VALID AND VETTED claims, yeah, that is going to take (no joke/hyperbole) years. And it could a HONEST claim and NOT VALID. For example, should a victim in a state with no lookback window (and thus NO chance for right now at least) get a vote? I'd say yes because they are surrendering any FUTURE claim if a lookback got enacted, but I can see the legal argument could be that only those with a CURRENT valid claim may vote. I'm not saying it would be persuasi

I am trying to time this out. In March, BSA's lawyers told the court they would be out of cash by August. So, let's take them at their word. Based on the old plan, it was going to take 3 months (April 15 - July 26) to get from the bankruptcy judge allowing the plan to go to a vote AND (assuming the vote successful) final confirmation of the plan. Now, that would be May 19 - August 29 (assuming everything is set back 34 days). So, a few things can happen BSA can admit the "we are out of cash by August" was a bluff (let's not say lie) from the start Changing condi

Speaking of outrageous fees and costs: remember when Century asked that 20% of all fees be put aside to try and control the spending (mostly by BSA lawyers I might add)? TCC is prepared to set aside 20% of its fees and have them placed in a court-controlled fund until the end of this process. TCC still wants the 10% of its fees (which it has promised will go towards victims) to be left untouched/go directly into a victims fund. Will BSA do the same? We will see. All professionals continue to file quarterly fee applications so that the fee examiner can review and engage with pro

I've been in BSA for years and my sons are in a troop. BSA survival in jeopardy? Too bad at this point given: all the foot-dragging the LIES told by local councils (that National would cover/protect them) BSA's efforts to throw COs under the bus (notice how the United Methodist Church, LDS, and other major CO groups have all filed objections to the BSA plan because it renegs on BSA's promises?) the JP Morgan Summit shell game (again, 1 hour, some phone calls, and that entire mess is cleared up; BSA simply refuses to let ANYONE look at the books, especially the TCC and t

Here's the thing: she cannot do that sua sponte. As near as I can see, there has never been briefing on the question of what the exact legal status of LC assets are (do they really belong to national? Are they directly subject to the bankruptcy as a result?) If she is going to rule on that, she'll want and indeed need briefs and oral argument. Since the CO/LC question is not on the May 19 agenda, that means the earliest it could be is June but more likely July for oral argument on the CO/LC question.

Again, if BSA would be willing to turn its financials on this over to the TCC to ensure that is in fact true and not a fraudulent shell game they are play to hide assets, then I'd believe that number/those numbers. But as the TCC has pointed out (and in fact now sued BSA to force production) BSA simply refuses to provide documentation that this wasn't in fact a fraudulent debt instrument placed on Summit to make it appear more encumbered than it really is. 1 hour and a set of PDF documents emailed back and forth would settle this. Instead, BSA digging in its heels, wasting tens (if n

It was my understanding that BSA agreed to allow for a lifting of the stay(s) and to allow those suits to be filed but NOT proceed any further in order to avoid statute of limitations deadlines.

Century is now claiming they have a whistleblower, presuambly willing to testify, that many if not most of the 95,000 claims (now 84,000) are fraudulent OR were fraudulently obtained and that ANY effort to move forward with a plan (BSA, TCC, or otherwise) needs to clear up who precisely has a valid claim BEFORE whoevers plan goes out for a vote. First, they've now provided scanned signature analysis showing that some of Proof of Claim forms were clear forgeries. Moreover, they are claiming that they have a whistleblower, ready to testify, that many if not most of the claims are fraudulent

I hate to say it: but that entirely depends. For example, Century and a slew of other (lesser) insurance companies are in effect renewing their call for at least 2 months of discovery and vetting at it relates to the 84,000 claims. Moreover, given her track record so far, I can see more can-kicking down the road by the judge.

As a matter of fact, yes, we are in pre-trial discovery. In addition to the bankruptcy proceeding there is a parallel "adversary" proceeding filed to contest/challenge the JP Morgan/Summit shell game. Case number 21-50032 and referred to as the TCC Identified Property Action. Since THAT portion of the mediation has concluded (with JP Morgan and BSA agreeing to this shell game) anyone challenging it is no longer bound by any mediation. It is fair game for litigation. UNLIKE the bankruptcy proceeding which is happening in Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware, this proceed

Thank you. Yes as I said before: BSA could solve the Summit/JP Morgan question in 1 hour if they so desired. Instead they opt to stonewall and withhold info.

So far, Hartford and JP Morgan would be the only ones.