CynicalScouter

Unannounced hearing now announced for August 30. Topic: TCC/FCR/Coalition and their ongoing demands for Century/Chubb to release information on their finances. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/a3a1e12b-8743-460d-a365-da1ae1611eed_6110.pdf This has been going on months, but the latest document was 6102 https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/cd0733b5-2a6e-4567-b79c-e973843ae343_6102.pdf Oversimplified: since May 28, the TCC/FCR/Coalition have been asking Century and Chubb to produce documents specifically spelling out a) how much Century

And by sending out as I noted 4 different messages: 1) NO data on how much is owed or how it will be paid for. 2) ALL data on how much is owned and how it will be paid for. 3) No data on how much, but data on how it will be paid for (we are selling the following camps...) 4) Data on how much, no data on how it will be paid for.

There was one big mediation session right before the bankruptcy was filed. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/799040_4.pdf In February 2020 when the bankruptcy started, there were ~275 filed cases AND they though that MAYBE another 1500 claims where out there for a total of 1700. Here is the list (it was 285 at the time of filing) https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/802725_14.pdf During the last hearing, I believe I heard that number is now up to 1200; this would seem to indicate 1228. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutio

Because when this all started National was thinking a few hundred or many a few thousand cases or claims. Not 82,500 claims. My council, to its credit, never believed it and warned from the start we'd have to pay SOMETHING. Not sure what or how much, but SOMETHING. Other councils were sending around the "all funds will stay local; all is well!" emails. There are a LOT of people who right now feel conned about that. But in National's (partial) defense, they were blindsided by the amount of claims.

Do it and share the numbers from other councils. If they insist on pretending that the numbers are still NDA, ask why then these others councils (INCLUDING THE LEAD ATTORNEY FOR THE LOCAL COUNCILS) are telling people the numbers.

So I saw someone recently try and list all the known payout places. Greater New York Council = $9 million Dan Beard Council = $4 million Theodore Roosevelt Council = $3,989,485 San Diego Imperial Council = "around $2.5 million" Grand Canyon Council = "just over $7 million" Greater Hudson Valley Council = $6,367,834.84 Bay-Lakes Council = "just under $3 million"

To further elaborate on this: the fact that the Greater New York Council released its number ($9 million) and the Grand Canyon Council released their number ($7 million) tells you the "it's behind a NDA" excuse is now officially garbage. Those two councils were on the Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils. The GNYC attorney was the lead attorney for the group. If there was ANY legal reason prohibiting release of the numbers, surely the lead attorney for the Local Councils would know and have told his own council not to release the number. As I said: councils that still insist the NDA is in e

Do you have particular names that are part of this conspiracy theory or is this just a general “they” and “them”?

There is no reason for councils not to release at this point and in fact many councils have some other councils are either confused lying or stupid and still believe that the NDA it is in effect

I am seeing more and more from Reddit, FB groups, etc. that last week's mediation was a failure and that a new directive may have gone out Monday night telling Methodist churches to not renew. Moreover, some churches are simply dropping their units NOW, mid-year, and not waiting for December 31. To borrow a military phrase, it is turning from a retreat to a rout.

I really, really think this is going to be something where the language and loose language BSA used and the myths and legends are going to get cross-wired. As I noted elsewhere, the argument that BSA is making is that the pre-1976 insurance policies covered BSA and BSA alone. Anyone who therefore thought they were covered (in terms of COs) are therefore morons or simply misunderstood. The fact that COs are now coming back and saying "We, or more accurately people 50+ years ago in our seats, thought BSA said we were covered" won't matter much. If the insurance policies did NOT co

It is. All councils are registered as 501(c)(3)s in their own right. For example Circle Ten Council is a registered 501(c)(3) as "Boy Scouts Of America National Council 571 Circle Ten Council" which is a mouthful but gets the point across. https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/ https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/750800615_201912_990_2021040217863611.pdf

Only if the victims hear about it en masse.

Right, we have this weird situation where Some councils are giving out the number they owe AND how they'll pay for it. Some councils are NOT giving out the number, but are saying how they'll pay for it (selling Camp X) Some councils are giving out the the number, but not how they'll pay exactly. Most councils have still not said a single word to any of their adult leaders or parents.

Right: consider. And the Catholic Committee on Scouting works with the US Conference on Scouting issues. But let me say this for third time: the Catholic dioceses do not have a single "boss" (other than Pope Francis) who can make a universally binding decision on all of them. They can't all agree on something as mission-critical as when the appropriate age for the Sacrament of Confirmation is. Again, stop thinking of this as a strict hierarchy. All 170+ bishops and archbishops are equally authoritative in their own dioceses. Within an Ecclesiastical Province, the Archbishop is the fi

I think there's two different confidentiality items here: 1) "We can't tell you the number" is one. THAT has been lifted but some councils are still pretending it is binding. The fact that so many councils have released their numbers proves that's a fib. 2) "We can't tell you because we are in negotiations to sell local properties" is another that may be in play. Look at the language here. In other words, the NUMBER is no longer confidential, but HOW the LC will pay may be if there's a deal being struck in the background

Exactly. I see absolutely 0% chance of all the dioceses and archdioceses universally agreeing on anything w/r/t to this issue.

Yep. I saw a lot of people over inflating the judges decision and how this was the beginning of the end, etc. And many reporters lost the nuance. if anything that RSA decision was one step forward two steps back.

“Mosaic”? But in the mean time several dioceses have banded together and hired the same law firm to represent their Interests.

Dioceses don’t “answer” to archdioceses for starters. and no one “answers” to the papal Nuncio. He isn’t the boss of all bishops. And the vow of obedience obligates clergy to obey those appointed as superior to them. This gets into a ton of complexity I do not want to get into here (e.g. does a Jesuit priest assigned to a university inside a diocese answer to the bishop or his Jesuit superior-general? Etc.) Yes as I explained each bishop (or for an archdiocese an archbishop) gets to decide. Other than a direct appeal to the Holy See, there is no one else “above” a bish

Not sure I follow. The claim was that that Hartford deal was perfectly sound use of business judgement and perfectly valid. The judge did NOT rule the Hartford deal was fine, and in fact may LATER rule it is a problem for other reasons. All that she indicated during the last hearing was that the RSA hearing and the RSA was not the time/place/forum to make that argument.

VERY early on, even before the bankruptcy, BSA sued several insurance companies for refusal to pay out on claims. The insurance company defense, in part, was that BSA lied to them when they entered into the insurance plans decades ago about just how much sexual abuse was going on at the time (and that therefore the policies were void). Here's one such suit (2013) https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2013/07/18/boy-scouts-of-america-sue-two-insurance-companies-for-refusing-to-pay-settlement-in-sex-abuse-case/ and another involving Hartford (2018) https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/new

The August 25 hearing is now officially cancelled. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/054bc42a-38fa-439a-9cfa-34e99c75f016_6106.pdf

I think this thread is about the bankruptcy, not another venue for the millionth version of "Girls + Gays = BSA bad".

No, because unlike the Methodists and the LDS, there is NOT enough interest in staffing a full time position for this. There is no money for them to have a full time, paid person that does nothing by Catholic scouting nationally. The committee is NOT an extension of National, and if BSA staffers are opening mail addressed to the committee without permission, that's a felony. That said, there are lots of smaller volunteer organizations who use the address for mailing purposes of some larger entity that they are attached/affiliated with because they don't have the money or dedicated staff.