CynicalScouter

Also worth noting: the folks working the official United Methodists Scouting FB are asking people to hold tight "We will have an honest update by Sept. 20." https://www.facebook.com/MethodistScouting/posts/603906087681889?comment_id=604431790962652&reply_comment_id=604441290961702 What is so special about Sept. 20? It is the day before the hearing on the BSA disclosure statement and Plan 4.0 set to start on Sept. 21. And I feel for this scouter (emphasis added) That gets into another debate of what is a "quality unit" and how can you measure of a unit is/is

During the annual meeting there was talk about a major media and marketing push once the bankruptcy is over to "rebrand" BSA and to focus on people who have NOT heard of or are aware of scouting (vs. trying to drum up support from those who already knew). There was supposedly messages that were tested, meaning either a) focus groups or b) survey such as you suggest. We'll see what comes of it.

I made no moral judgements. You are reading things into the text that are not there.

Latest from United Methodist Scouting FB. This is an official page. It does NOT sound positive. https://www.facebook.com/101372411268595/posts/605743410831490/?d=n “Have you ever thought about what James West felt? How did he see things? He was asked to be the Chief Scout for a brand new BSA. There were already active troops with charters going back to England. There were troops doing their own thing. And there was something he believed could be of benefit for the country and world. The movement was already moving. So how to build the future today? That had to be his daily question.

And there are people who think Mosby is being honest, truthful and trustworthy. Just because YOU don't think so doesn't mean others do not. That's the problem with using this as performance. The "M" in "Measurement" becomes "My opinion". How are you going to measure performance? Run a poll of scouts and if he gets less than 50% fire him?

See! THAT Is a good performance measurement Specific: Reduce number of CSA cases reported in 2021 by 50% vs. 2011. Measurable: Yes, count number of abuse cases reported in 2021 vs 2011 Achievable: Yes, with stringent YPT. 100% elimination is not "achievable" since perfection with 1 million scouts is impossible. Relevant: Absolutely relevant. Time-Bound: Yes, there is a specific measurement and date 2021 vs. 2011 THAT is a performance measure you can use. Not "do more good" "stop being crappy". Etc.

Exactly. That's why performance measurement and management are so hard. "Do good stuff" "Stop doing crappy stuff" How on EARTH can you expect someone to be measured off of that. Let me offer what might be (not saying it is one I am happy with) metric for Mosby Specific: Total BSA registered youth membership will decline no more than 3% Year Ending 2020 vs. Year Ending 2021 Measurable: Yes, subtract the number of youth registered on December 31, 2020 from the number registered on December 31, 2021 and divided. Achievable: Yes, when all is said and done it is POSSIBLE

It isn't a moral equivalency. It is a compensation equivalency. I never said it was "good" or "bad". I never said "fair" or "unfair". I never used any moral judgment on it whatsoever. I said it was "comparable to that of other similar organizations." Period.

I'm not. Part of the problem is that if you set amorphous goals you never know if you achieved them. "Do better" "Stop doing bad". How EXACTLY is he doing a "Crappy" job or, conversely, specifically what would a "good" job look like? Etc. If you cannot define what "Success" looks like, you'll never get there.

And this is the problem when most people (not just you, but in general) demand better "performance". They are utterly incapable of quantifying what they want. "I want you to do better". Ok, what does better LOOK like? "Do more good stuff". Ok, what? How do you possibly MEASURE that if you cannot even define it? Again, SMART goals is a well known tool here. Not the best, not perfect, but well known and well tested. They teach it at Wood Badge, my organization it is practically a mantra. SMART Specific Measurable Achievable Relevant Time-Bound

And how exactly is that measured? What does that even MEAN? SMART Specific Measurable Achievable Relevant Time-Bound SMART Roger Mosby Will walk 3 miles He has demonstrated an ability to walk in the past It is relevant to scouting HOW? (not clear) He will walk this walk within 1 week

Yep, as is your "right" to mass down vote every post made by myself and @johnsch322 or whoever else you want to target. If petty little down vote/internet "points" is the only response you are capable of and the only thing you care about, so be it.

But then we get the complaints lodged above: that all BSA cares about is membership numbers. What performance metrics should be used to weigh the effectiveness of the BSA CEO (Mosby for now)?

No. The argument previously made and alleged by @Gilwell_1919was that financial data in general, and executive compensation in particular, by BSA in the past was untrustworthy. My point was that while it may/may not have been in the past, in the current context with the possibility of criminal charges and an active bankruptcy with people tearing through their financials, I extremely doubt that BSA's fudging its financials now.

So @David CO so far all you've done, and done for every one one of my posts, is downvote. Rather than engaging, rather than disagreeing, rather than refuting the data I provided in the latest post for example, all you do is downvote. Do you have ANYTHING of substance to add other than a downvote? What, precisely do you disagree with in terms of that data I provided? You never answered. What should the salary/salaries of BSA officials be? You never answered. Past a certain point this becomes little more than petty unscoutlike behavior. If all you have to say is a quick littl

See this: Nonprofits and Sarbanes-Oxley https://www.americanbar.org/groups/center-pro-bono/resources/program-management/nonprofits_sarbanes_oxley/ I was refering to the idea that if BSA by and through its accountants were filing false financials in general, and as part of the IRS 990s in particular, DURING THE BANKRUPTCY Section 802 applies. Record-keeping Section 802 of the Act makes it a crime to knowingly alter, destroy, mutilate, conceal, cover up, falsify or make a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the

So, let's keep beating the dead horse of "BSA professionals make too much and should be paid $1" and put BSA in the context of other similar not for profits. 19 Total Revenue Executive compensation Professional fundraising fees Other salaries and wages CEO/President 2019 Salary 2019 Salary Salary as

How forseeable was it that because SCOUTING IN GENERAL or BSA NATIONAL had a history of child sexual abuse cases that a landlord letting PACK 123 use their fellowship hall would lead to the sexual abuse of a scout (generally, or on the premises)? That's a stretch in a half to say the least. But it will cost the church thousands to defend that suit, or the insurance co. for the church.

Depends in prevention (or foreseeability) and soverign immunity. First, keep in mind that the Forest Service and (some) local and state governments have what is called soverign immunity: you can't sue them for a tort (like personal injury) UNLESS they give you permission first. Here's a hint: they won't. See, for example https://www.virginiainjurylawyersblog.com/federal-appellate-court-determines-government-immune-liability-bicycle-accident-occurring-national-forest/ So, there's that. Second is the idea of prevention or foreseeability. GENERALLY "There is no duty to cont

Good for you. In the given marketplace, asking DEs to do 60+ hours a week for $40k will happen so rarely that the jobs remain open for months. My council had a DE spot, pre-pandemic, open for 11 months. Are there people willing to work that much for that little? Yes. Are there enough to meet Local Council staffing needs? Nope. Of course, I suppose you'd argue that all those professionals should just get paid $1 and be grateful and happy to work in/for scouting?

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Short-Form-Facility-Use-Agreement-draft-10-21-2020.pdf Facility Use Agreement Licensor: Licensee: Facility Description and Address: Licensee Address: Restricted Area(s), if any:

They should all also apparently work for $1 a piece (if that much) as well.

EVEN IF they did in the past, there's NO evidence they are doing so NOW in 2021 (and the financial data for 2019 and 2020, which is what I referenced) and in fact given that every financial document is being vetted by a) their accountants who are now post-Sarbanes-Oxley on notice the accountants can get handcuffed if they fudge numbers b) the attorneys for the claimants, I find it extremely unlikely that BSA's accounting TODAY is anything other than squeaky clean.

The Guide to Advancement is...nebulous on this point. In short, what is/is not sufficient CAN be established by the unit leader PROSPECTIVELY. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf Here was the problem Guide to Advancement was trying to address. What happens when the Scoutmaster AFTER the 6-months-in-position just arbitrarily decides "Nope. I don't think so." If the unit leader is going to reject those months, the exact specifications need to be laid out FIRST, and Guide to Advancement spells that out. Note that part in bold. Finally, if the scout and

Then name the number the current Scouts BSA (Mosby) should be making as salary. $1?