malraux

12 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

The first thing we do is tell em they have these 12 words to memorize and this other oath they gotta memorize and recite it all the time.  Also, go take this online class about how the internet works and then these uncomfortable scenarios in this little book.  We promise we will get to camping and BB Guns and stuff soon.  We promise.   Oh yeah, sorry... we can't shoot BB Guns or a Bow and Arrow unless you pay more money to go to a certain camp where its allowed.  If you can't go there, well sorry, I don't know what to tell you.

The way it works in my council is that there are 2-3 cub centric events at council properties right after signup to fulfill the promise of camping, BB guns, and smores. It also helps with the less engaged parents because the bigger chunks of the program are run by more engaged volunteers.

"List participant restrictions: if any"

That's where you say that you can't take photos etc.

Just now, 1980Scouter said:

Thank you.  I had no idea it happened in the late 80's. I never saw any during my time in scouting as a youth of that era.

My Webelos handbook of that era talks about how exciting Webelos is because now your leader has to be a man.

1 minute ago, 1980Scouter said:

So the first female scoutmaster was 1988?

Officially, yes. Took lots of lawsuits and controversy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/15/nyregion/catherine-n-pollard-88-first-female-scoutmaster-in-us-dies.html

32 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Add ten years of covering IVF file coverage (2012 release).  Add more for other lawsuit discussions (membership, GSA, religious, etc).  Starting with 1998 Supreme Court case.  My whole scouting era has been controversy and legal issues.  ...  For most of BSA's 110 years, I can't believe there was much controversy at all.  Just the last 20. 

BSA v Dale was over 20 years ago. Women/girls and BSA has been an issue for a long time, with the first recognized scoutmaster coming in 1988. Religious doctrines have been an issue. Segregated scouting units is an old issue.

5 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

Current process is 1) completing a full application, 2)getting it signed/approved by Committee Chair, 3) get it signed and approved by Chartered Organization Rep., 4) Get it to council office along with printed copy of YP training certificate, 5) pay $45 registration fee, 6) council has to obtain background check, 7)  Scout Exec has to review application & background check, 8 approved application has to be entered into council system, 9) unit has to be notified that volunteer now approved and registered.

Often times, when we're talking about a previously unregistered parent attending camp for the first time, it can either be a last minute decision where we need more leaders to drive and cover the activity, or at best it's maybe two weeks out when plans for both troop and volunteer family are finalized.

 

Step one is completing ypt. Which is a process that could be easier. Registering on the BSA site and watching 4 videos sounds easy, but the training section of the site feels clunky and hard to navigate. And I'm not sure how well the videos do at imparting the rules of youth protection and ways to identify problems vs stressing the importance of caring about youth protection.

Just now, T2Eagle said:

This was the area that really concerned me when talking about the 72 hour rule changing to full registration/backgrounding.  

I hope they're able to develop a way for adults to be registered more quickly and inexpensively.  My troop can handle having to register and background anybody camping with the troop, but I know that smaller and less well resourced troops will struggle with this, especially if the process remains as cumbersome and costly as it currently is.  

Its not clear to me if the language about adult program participant is a new category, or is a 18-21 venture scout or is the same thing as a Cub Scout parent. I would hope that they have a cheaper/easier route for parents going on a campout but are not leaders.

Looking at the 990 filing, my council's SE makes about twice what our governor makes. That said, the SE makes about other individuals at the top of the Cabinet make.

37 minutes ago, yknot said:

Yes as in G2SS. I'm curious though how many COs allow even adults to do so.  Ours doesn't. Chainsaws yes; wood chippers no. We do it at council camp properties simply because they have no idea but it's not allowed on any of their church properties or campgrounds where we do service projects. It's a huge liability risk. 

As per g2ss, it takes special certification to use a chainsaw. There’s a whole class you’re supposed to take. 

6 minutes ago, GrammaScout said:

We need info !

First of all, its probably time to check in with your DE. Some of these questions are best handled by the professional. IE your council may or may not allow a Friends of Troop 123 to be a chartering organization. There is also lots of different legal qualifications between not for profit vs 501c3.

Regardless, since the new organization will be completely distinct from the old, you can be selective in who runs the new one, subject to the normal rules of politics.

Moving to a new church, Lion club, rotary organization, etc is going to be preferable.

13 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

It's not me that needs convincing.  Gotta get it past the District folks.  

When I turned in my paperwork for the den leader award, I then immediately walked into the scout shop and bought the knot. They just sell them. 

Seeing many Cub Scout packs, I think that the committee as distinct from the CC, CM, and DLs is a fiction in the vast majority of packs. The direct contact vs committee separation in troops is much more realistic.

55 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

If we have a committee member who is also serving as a Den Leader, are they eligible for the Den Leader Award?  Since committee functions don't really take place during Den or Pack meetings, we have a couple of people who filled the committee space so we can recharter, but they are also den leaders.  I suppose we can send the application up and see what District or Council says, right?

The official answer is that the need to be registered as a DL. not a committee member.

Just now, Eagle1993 said:

Not really.  Let's say you get $30K today.  The court case has taken 2 years.  Let's say it takes 2 more years.  

So, today .. you invest $30K at a 6% rate of return, after 2 years, you would have $33,708.  So, even after paying 40%, the a $6,180 increase would be match your return ... so anything more than $6,180 would be worth it economically.  That means, doubling the court case would require about a 21% increase in settlement.

Its not an investment, its a job though. You have to keep doing work. Presumably you would be giving up other cases to continue to pursue this one. Two cases each paying $30k after two years is better than one case paying $40k after 4 years.

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

Not the lawyers who have clients that are claimants.  They only win more when more is on the table.

From a strict economic view, doubling the length of the court case would need to double the size of the settlement to be worth it.

1 hour ago, Double Eagle said:

Competing programs like GS or TL are getting more participation for the simple pricetag. 

Getting good numbers on what is happening with TL always seems difficult. For example, in Nov 2021 they claimed 36,000 members with 18,000 new in the last year. But the year before, they claimed 30,000 members. That's some big turnover in membership if taken literally.

2 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

Fair enough TN but I DO think this discussion belongs here because I'm not asking about YP generally. I'm asking about what is needed to be put in this Plan in black letter language that would actually make a meaningful difference.  We are way past "trust us."

While I'm not sure of any specifics rules that would make a difference, I do think that having an independent auditor to give oversight on YP should be considered seriously.

Every campout being mandatory is very extreme. With sports, family events, academics, etc if a unit requires youth to put scouting first, they will quickly find out how unsustainable that is.

Were this the BSA scout program, I'd point to the option of lots of online merit badges currently available. I'm assuming this is the UK program, so I can't offer specific suggestions, but it would be something to look into.

Isn't that partially why on the backend most units have 4 digits even as we only use at most 3 digits? ie troop 123 and troop 123, unless very close geographically, can become troop 1123 and troop 2123 for paperwork purposes, but no one notices otherwise.

Just now, ThenNow said:

Isn’t there the YPT requirement or is that separate from registration? I thought the background checking and YPT certification were “all of a piece,” as they used to say. 

Yes, you have to be current on ypt, which mostly involves watching videos. The background check happens at the council level.

Just now, ThenNow said:

I appreciate the explanation. Related, but not to imply this needs to be applied to parents, what is the annual cost and commitment to be registered? That is both as to the individual and the Unit. Thanks.

It’s around $50/year. The time commitment the unit might require changes depending on the unit. 

My only experience was that I got the training logged in my online record within a day or so of telling my course director that I had finished.

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

What other aspects of G2SS are causing overburden?   Perhaps there are some that could be relooked at just as the tools section was.  

At the cub level, the requirements can be a burdensome. Two deep leadership at every den meeting, and requiring female leaders, even when parents are always present gets tough.

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Lions ( ages 5 or 6) and Tigers (ages 6 or 7)are prohibited from  using hand held paint brushes  (that will put a damper on those packs that do PWD workshop nights where everyone is working on their PWD cars, including painting them in some cases).

Nitpick, this defines only the tool use during a service project. But PWD is not part of a service project, so the document explicitly says it doesn't apply.