gblotter

My father-in-law attended the annual meeting in Texas. Kool-Aid flowed in abundance.

Everyone - yes, EVERYONE thinks girls in BSA is the greatest idea ever. The only reason anyone thinks badly of BSA is because the press has been plotting against them. Nothing needs to be fixed except the negative messages being portrayed by the media.

Family, family, family. Get on the train or get run over. The demise of century-old traditions - swept away with smiles and marketing speak.

Two high-ranking LDS leaders were there and spoke of the long and difficult decision to sever ties with BSA. It was not their choice - it was the will of God. Tears were shed.

Not a word was mentioned about huge debts and looming balloon payments. What could possibly go wrong?

3 hours ago, Chadamus said:

What will keep you going?

I am not speaking for @The Latin Scot ...

I was ready to quit in February 2019, but my love for these boys will keep me going over the next 18 months. I have helped each of our Scouts craft an advancement plan, but it is their responsibility to execute on that plan. As Scoutmaster, I am in a support role to help them complete a journey started. Their motivation will be my motivation, but without question I will be done with BSA on 12/31/19.

Happy trails @Tampa Turtle

Take with you the memories of your best Scouting experiences and let the other stuff fade into the cobwebs of the past.

@The Latin Scot It’s a strange time for us LDS Scouters, with such a range of emotions.

I’ve been involved in Scouting for most of my life as a boy and now an adult leader. Thomas S. Monson (recent LDS President and Silver Buffalo) famously said: “Decisions determine destiny”. BSA has shown us that decisions can also detour destiny.

I’ve never been divorced, but I wonder if there are steps of acceptance and withdrawal that may apply here as we transition and move on.

I’m glad we will have the next 18 months to work through this (both personally and organizationally). Especially for the most dedicated of LDS Scouters, there will be a lot to work through.

5 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

I think that may have been the norm in the past, but we do them "on demand."

There is nothing hard and fast about our scheduling. We are sensitive to individual needs. The main benefit of scheduling BOR every three months is that it lights a fire under the boys to work toward that date. Otherwise procrastination takes over.

21 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

FireStone asked that in this discussion, we PUT ASIDE the doom and gloom.  I see later posts here where the doom and gloom has not remained off to the side, but is front-and-center.

Amazing how that happens so easily with these online forums. @NJCubScouter You are absolutely correct, and I am the most guilty offender in this regard.

I apologize for detouring off into the gloom-and-doom weeds with some of my comments.

I think the dark storm clouds have probably dropped most of their rain by now, anyway. Do I see some sun breaking through?

1 hour ago, JoeBob said:

Now, the program is in a national nosedive -- and leaders think the best way to revive it is to throw a two-week sex party?"

I have passion about these issues, and I share the disappointment felt by many.

But ...

I think the Family Research Council does themselves a disservice by characterizing the situation with such statements. These kinds of descriptions do not advance their cause, and only make themselves look less credible. The facts themselves are strong enough arguments without resorting to ridiculous language.

4 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

apparently it's all Trail Life's fault now, https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/blog/clarifying-misinformation-about-2019-world-scout-jamboree-policies/

From the press release, alcohol will not be offered at Jamboree - bravo! However, I think most of the furor is centered on condoms at Jamboree. I see no direct mention of that hot potato by BSA or WOSM. They were clear about no alcohol, so why not be clear about the most volatile topic (condoms). Maybe I missed something in a veiled reference like "adhere to the existing health requirements developed to address the needs of international health norms in a manner more aligned with local practices"? Is it beyond their ability to just say what they mean?

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

I'm just thinking it will trigger a lack of critical mass in the intermountain west that will be larger than expected.

A loss of 80 percent of Scouts and units is expected for the LDS-heavy councils of the intermountain west. You predict more than that?

It is hard for me to imagine a path forward for some of those councils, and consolidations seem inevitable. Somehow folks are able to put the pieces back together after a Cat-5 hurricane.

2 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

Since inception, it's 2%, but the number annually is up to 6% and climbing.

 There will be an entirely-expected spike in Eagles next year as LDS Scouts prepare to exit BSA, followed by a big drop off in 2020 and beyond. Who knows how many years it will take to regain previous levels (if ever). If you believe there are too many Eagles (in numbers and percentages), the LDS church just fixed that problem for you.

8 minutes ago, FireStone said:

I still have yet to hear of any change in program or requirements, ranks, badges, activities, etc., so as far as I can see, things still look pretty much the same. I don't think that a girl in BSA uniform makes the BSA unrecognizable.

The frog has been on the stove for some time now.

34 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

I also think your going to see a lot of council camps close. National has made it no secret they think the BSA owns way too much property. I predict more than half of council properties will try to be sold off. 

BSA National can declare that council-owned camp properties do not meet standards, but they cannot force a sale, can they?

Speaking of our council only, we have three camp properties where only two are needed. One crumbling camp sits mostly idle - even during the summer camping months. That camp gets rented out to all sorts of non-BSA groups, providing just enough revenue to keep the camp going but not enough revenue to make it an attractive, thriving property. It depresses me to go there because it's decaying hodgepodge of 1960s structures are a maintenance nightmare.

15 minutes ago, FireStone said:

The BSA can live on as a volunteer-only scouting org, like others around the world. Under 100,000 members we could keep right on scouting along. We just can't sustain the bloat of the big salaries, SBR debts, etc. ...

The BSA specifically can endure, but not if we lose a lot of members and National isn't willing to change their business model to something more thrifty.

Summit debt is the key factor.

Bloated salaries for BSA brass are nothing compared to debt for SBR. Eliminate all BSA executives and the SBR problem still does not go away. I don't know how the debt is structured. If/when SBR goes down, are other parts of BSA insulated to keep the ship afloat - or do they start coming after Philmont and office buildings in Irving? I have no idea.

24 minutes ago, FireStone said:

I don't believe it will come to that, I have faith in our new trajectory and that this thing will work in it's new configuration.

That question will be answered soon enough. If BSA does indeed survive, the new configuration will bear little resemblance to the Scouting we have known in the past. Some may cheer these changes as being long overdue, but I find it all very sad to watch such an icon of American culture unravel like this.

2 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

don't judge me too harshly

Show me the photo of you wearing that red beret.

39 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

The LDS departure vortex may spread into the non-urban central parts of the nation before the damage is finished.

I expect we'll see a membership bloodbath over the next five years - not necessarily precipitated by the LDS departure, but because of general disillusionment over recent changes.

If non-urban Scouting predictably declines, how can anyone expect that urban Scouting will fill the void? Urban Scouting has always been an awkward fit at best.

No matter - Irving will double-down on gender-neutral Scouting with fully co-ed troops. Alienating the BSA base in order to pursue a perpetually elusive periphery.

1 minute ago, Jameson76 said:

If you finished Eagle December 1973 (NOTE - as did I and we took paperwork to Council office on like Friday 12/28 or Monday 12/30, stood in line, and got it filed) then you were under the original requirements and hopefully avoided ISP, berets, and asking the kindly policeman for directions while out on a hike.

Yes - I earned my Eagle under the old requirements. I dropped out of Scouting shortly thereafter (along with 2.5 million others). So I guess I am not an ISP survivor at all - I am an ISP casualty.

I detested the red beret - almost as much as those Skill Awards.

24 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

I'm a survivor of the ISP.  Luckily I had a SM who ignored National's direction.  Modernized programs, simplified uniforms (don't want to look military), non-traditional badges (have to appeal to all the youth we don't serve) and activities (the outdoors is nice but there's lots of other activities).

2

I finished my last Eagle-required merit badge in December 1973 and passed my EBOR in early 1974. An ISP survivor here, too.

26 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

It's deja vu all over again.  But I suspect you're right we'll head down that path again.

Yep. Thing is, BSA cannot sustain those kinds of membership losses this time around and still survive as an organization. The margins are too thin for these kinds of mistakes.

21 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

@gblotter, I don't see an eminent bankruptcy from the LDS departure, however, membership fees will rise from $33/person to $40/person and unit insurance/recharter fees will rise from $40/unit to $50/unit.

I don't link BSA bankruptcy reorganization to the LDS departure. I attribute it to huge debts and looming balloon payments for The Summit.

2 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

• The registration (showing 2,659.439 in 2017 annual report) will be down to around 2,000,000
• The number of units (showing 99,814 in 2017 annual report) will be down to around 80,000

 

BSA will see those kinds membership declines next year just from the LDS departure. The additional attrition over the next decade will be much more severe.

1 minute ago, bearess said:

Is that really any different than when you were in school?  Elementary education is a pink-collar profession, and has been for the last century.

No - not any different in my generation, but back then boys at least had things like Scouting to provide some balance with male role models. Those options are now narrowing (just sports teams?). Not all boys happen to be sporty (I certainly wasn't).

9 minutes ago, MattR said:

We need our own vision that our people can get behind. If it turns out to be similar to UK scouts, or Latvia, or Argentina, fine, but we need to figure it out for ourselves.

Totally agree - but Irving seems to be acting in desperation these days - grasping at the straws World Scouting. Vision isn't high on their list.

16 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Scout Life???   BSA pulled the Trademark earlier this year.

 

And nobody is surprised.

11 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

So you think we should get rid off all my female scout leaders?

Females have contributed greatly in their roles in our troop.

11 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Boys should have role models that are male and female

Personally, I see the influence of male role models decreasing and the influence of female role models increasing in the lives of boys. Scouting now seems to be following that societal trend. I don't view that as a good thing.

11 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Maybe your school district needs to hire more men?

Absolutely.

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

let's think about what this all looks like in a few years, or maybe a decade, if all of the changes don't sink the BSA.

I think BSA will continue to exist, but in a very different incarnation than we know today. Some sort of bankruptcy reorganization seems inevitable. Many of the changes ahead will be dictated by courts and creditors and parties entirely detached from Scouting. But setting aside the gloom and doom ...

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

Any other guesses as to what the BSA of the future might look like?

OA will soon be forced to abandon its Indian-themed ceremonies - too much cultural appropriation for this PC era. Whether OA continues to exist at all after that - who knows?

God is next on the chopping block. I fully expect that Duty to God will become an optional component, if not eliminated from the oath altogether.

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

Are we on a path that aligns with the UK program or something else?

Yes - everything seems to point in the direction that BSA wants to emulate the UK Scouting program. With Irving's track record, I personally think they will end up emulating the Canada Scouting program instead. BSA National just doesn't have the wisdom and competence.

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

I would not be at all surprised to see the BSA even take on an ambassador like Bear Grylls to try and push this newer, cooler scouting image in the US.

I wholeheartedly support the idea of this kind of BSA ambassador. I would choose a male role model who exudes outdoor adventure and healthy manhood. That doesn't seem to fit the current trend toward genderless Scouting, so I'm sure BSA will bungle things by picking both a man and a woman.

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

look at the heavy push in STEM in the BSA

This is the wrong way to go. STEM is currently being pushed everywhere in our society. Who needs BSA for that? BSA needs to differentiate itself around outdoor adventure (something that should already be its core strength). Less indoors - more outdoors. Less bookwork - more adventure.

On 4/13/2018 at 6:22 AM, David CO said:

Our committee is chosen by the COR. The committee doesn't choose itself.

We try to keep the number of registered adults as small as possible, as we don't like to pay any unnecessary registration fees. The committee usually has 4 or 5 members. We also have a lot of parent volunteers who are not registered leaders.

Committee works the same for our LDS troop. Few formal committee members, more parent volunteers who are not registered leaders.

For our troop, BORs are scheduled by the Committee Chair in consultation with the Scoutmaster and the Advancement Chair. We have a list of "usual suspects" (both committee members and other volunteers), but we will take almost anyone who is willing to participate and learn the process along the way.

For efficiency, we try to batch up our rank advancements and hold a BOR once every three months or so for any Scout who is ready, but of course we will do it more frequently if there is a pressing need.