Eagle1993

In part, as it takes people to get into their 30s+ before they may feel up to reporting incidents. That said, I do agree YPT & barriers to abuse have greatly helped. I believe my Troop is safe. I've seen multiple leaders within my Troop ensure YPT rules are being followed, even on zoom calls and emails. I see this at many other Troops as well. However, I believe there are likely units out there that may not follow YPT closely. My concern is that our current CO model is broken as there is no real oversight of those units/leaders. We do not have enough DEs or UCs to check into Troops with no CO oversight. I am concerned about those kids until there is more mandated oversight from either an active CO or district/council representatives. So yes, I think BSA could be doing more by admitting the CO model is broken (for many units) and needs reform.

I read the updated Chapter 11 statement. This appears to be National BSA's offer. My guess is that they think they can get at least $300M from local councils based on internal discussions; however, they don't have or are not ready to share the details yet. Eventually, you'll probably see a council by council summary including their assets, camps, etc. that make up the $300M+. The insurance companies are treated separately; however, there are 40+ pages that outline each insurance policy by council by date range. I found it odd that several policies have council listed as unknown (N/A). Essentially, the trust can sue the insurance companies and collect what they can as can our non sex abuse claimants.

Not to go too far off topic, but I had a neighbor who owned 3 McD's. He distributed pot through the drive thru & had employees get prescriptions for opioids which he then took and sold. He purchased pot from sources on the West coast and had it delivered via US Postal Service to his house. After the combined ATF, USPS, IRS and DEA raid on his house (wow, a lot of government issued pickup trucks) McD's came in and immediately took over his 3 franchises with no court action (they just took them back per some contract language). So I know this can happen.

It will be interesting to see the insurance payout (when that comes after 4-5 years of litigation). Typically insurance has 2 limits (deductible & max liability). Insurance will never cover more than the liability limit and that is mentioned frequently in the filing. Note that the BSA already states there are liability limits ... so payouts cannot exceed those. In addition, the debtor and POST Bankruptcy BSA, reserve the rights to sue their insurance agency to get funds SEPERATE from those from the settlement trust. They specifically add that the settlement trust can try to obtain funds from BSA insurance providers but they cannot disrupt or negotiate changes that would result in the BSA not obtaining funds for non abuse victims (which would fall under the same limits of liability). So ... essentially the insurance pot of money will be split between non abuse and abuse claims and that is a fixed pot of money not to exceed the limits of liability. At least that is the way I read the clause below. "the right of the Debtors and Reorganized BSA (and any other named or additional insureds under such Specified Insurance Policy) are expressly reserved to (a) tender any Insured Non-Abuse Claims to the Specified Insurance Policies and (b) access the limits of liability of the Specified Insurance Policies to settle or otherwise resolve Insured Non-Abuse Claims. Further, the Settlement Trust cannot settle, compromise, or otherwise resolve any rights, duties, or obligations under the Specified Insurance Policies without the express written consent and approval of the Debtors or Reorganized BSA, as applicable, and the Creditors’ Committee, prior to its dissolution. Nonetheless, the Settlement Trust shall have the same rights, if any, as the Protected Parties with respect to any Specified Insurance Policy insofar as the Settlement Trust may (i) tender Abuse Claims to the Specified Insurance Policies and (ii) access the limits of liability of the Specified Insurance Policies to pay Abuse Claims pursuant to the Trust Distribution Procedures.

I think what we need is local camp(s), the program, great volunteers, training and enough professional scouters to ensure things are running well. I would love to keep the HA bases, especially Philmont, but I don't think they are needed. You can do HA without BSA bases. Its tough to do scouting without local camp(s).

This is what the Girl Scouts would get: essentially, the right to sue BSA's insurance companies or $50,000. That is 10,000 boxes of cookies. "Allowed Non-Abuse Litigation Claim from (i) available Insurance Coverage or the proceeds of any insurance policy of the Debtors, (ii) applicable proceeds of any Insurance Settlement Agreements, and (iii) co-liable non-debtors (if any) or their insurance coverage. Solely to the extent that the holder of an Allowed NonAbuse Litigation Claim fails to recover in full from the foregoing sources on account of such Allowed Claim after exhausting its remedies in respect thereof, such holder may elect to have the unsatisfied portion of its Allowed Claim treated as an Allowed Convenience Claim and receive cash in an amount equal to the lesser of (a) the amount of the unsatisfied portion of the Allowed Non-Abuse Litigation Claim and (b) $50,000."

The average portion I have seen from Catholic Church settlements is the Church pays out 30 - 50% of the final settlement and insurance covers the rest. The Church has agreed to help sue insurance companies to cover the gap. So ... BSA $6K ... that means final settlement would be $12 - $18K. That is before legal fees OR the cost of actually distributing the funds to victims (as that cost is also funded by the settlement trust). FYI ... here is a summary of settlements from the Catholic Church. The lowest payment I could find was Milwaukee at $63K per victim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlements_and_bankruptcies_in_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

Each person, on average, will get $6K out of this settlement. I think for most victims that require therapy, $6K is nothing. I also don't think psychologists change their hourly rate based upon BSA settlement. Nor do I think the need of therapy varies based upon the settlement amount. I'm a bit confused as your statements here ...

Interesting that they do not yet have the $300M from local councils. "The Debtors are committed to ensuring that the aggregate value of the Local Council Settlement Contribution is not less than $300,000,000, exclusive of insurance rights proposed to be contributed to the Settlement Trust. The Debtors intend to request the voluntary commitments of Local Councils to make their respective contributions, which contributions shall be set forth in commitment agreements executed by each Local Council. By no later than June 1, 2021, the Debtors shall file a report with the Bankruptcy Court concerning the status of the Debtors’ efforts to obtain contribution commitments from the Local Councils. Such status report shall contain information concerning the form of contributions by the Local Councils (i.e., cash, real property, or other assets) and the timing of such contributions. In addition, the status report will set forth any required amendments the Debtors may propose to the Plan to facilitate the Local Council Settlement Contribution."

That is the way I read it. Someone mentioned that BSA needs to go to war. Well, BSA just declared war on the sex abuse claimants. So, I guess those who wanted war will get one. Though, to be fair, I think they wanted a PR war about the positive aspects of scouting. Unfortunately, I think we will have a different war on our hands.

The BSA wants this two ways. Financially ... councils are completely independent. Their funding sources and assets have no tie to National. Legally ... councils are completely dependent. They have 0 liability with respect to sexual abuse. All liability is National BSA. That is a tough sell.

How? 26 * 52 * 150 = $202,800

This is terrible. The national narrative is that BSA is asking sex abuse victims to settle for $6k each (even with the reduced number of victims). The TCC also says this is DOA. A Sex abuse survivor is quoted saying BSAs payment won’t even cover their cost of therapists. TCC states the land is worthless as the leases are more than they oil revenue. Yes, I hope we keep everything of true value to scouting, but I’m very concerned by attempting to save Summit we lose everything.

Agreed. BSA better be ready to survive for the long haul while in bankruptcy court if this is their best offer. This is no where near enough to get an early settlement.

Same here. My son's friend and his sister are going to a local private school this year. $50K between the two of them. They plan to go back to public schools this fall when they are open.

Zach Galifianakis - Eagle Scout - Hangover Star - Between Two Ferns ...

The BSA is doing much of this. If you look, the councils are out there highlighting various activities to local media. Food drives, Eagle Scout Projects, etc.... still hit local media. Nationally, BSA did a big successful event for the first group of female Eagle Scouts. Now ... what else? Let's say a National BSA leader goes out to media to talk about the value of BSA? You know the story will be about 95,000 victims, bankruptcy and Girl Scouts suing over the branding issue. National BSA = bankrupt, Local BSA = Little Johnny's PWD car and Beth's Eagle Scout project. I expect BSA knows this now. Given this, BSA is keeping the positive messaging to advocates (such as local councils) which is what they should do. I expect they have nearly $0 allocated for a national PR campaign (other than finding abuse victims). National BSA has already stated they are rebranding post bankruptcy. Their #1 job is getting out of bankruptcy quickly so the CAN kick off the rebranding & resulting PR campaign. Trying to spread a National positive message when we have 50 times the number of possible victims than all of the Catholic Church lawsuits is a fools errand. Finally, I do not disagree with you that BSA fails at PR. I have doubts if BSA can really rebrand successfully. We need much younger men/women, including people of color, to represent us nationally. Trotting out our old white men (as good as they are) to sell scouting to youth will fail as it has failed over the last two decades. How about our next representatives actually have active Twitter and Instagram accounts with more followers than mine? Where is our Bear Grylls?

How many of those were accused of sexually abusing 95,000 of their youth customers and in currently in bankruptcy? What is BSAs argument? It wasn’t 95,000 it was only 55,000? Penn State was nearly destroyed over 20 claims. The Catholic Church has been roasted over 1,800. I’d love to see the PR campaign on this one. Our top funder at my council is the UnitedWay. Do you think the UnitedWay or other big donors will back an organization who is fighting 10,000+ claims of sexual abuse over several years? They are barely hanging in as it is now. Also, FYI... BSA did spend a ton of $ on PR. The PR campaign was extremely successful. It generated 95,000 claims. Good luck getting the bankruptcy judge allowing a dollar more. BSA has two options. Prepare for a very long bankruptcy fight (think on the order of 5-10 years) or surrender immediately just short of liquidation while protecting councils and COs. BSA has been clear they cannot afford a long bankruptcy battle so their only choice is surrender and start the rebuild after. Perhaps that is just a bluff. We will find out soon.

For those abused, I have nothing but sympathy and I think everyone involved in scouting would (or should) fell nothing but sorrow for what they went through. I honestly don't blame anyone who was abused for seeking justice in this bankruptcy. I expect I would want to do that. That said, I don't think civil litigation is the best way to handle improving the current situation. Identifying what should be required, passing laws and punishing groups that go afoul would probably have a better result. Ideas such as a national volunteer database (similar to sex offender), mandatory reporting, mandatory background checks, etc. Those give clear cut rules for organizations to implement. Right now, organizations are faced with a guessing game + insurance companies telling them what to do. In some cases, they simply give up. In others, they may make modifications that don't really reduce risk and only damage the program. While I am concerned about the BSA, I am more concerned that we are headed into a wild west of youth protection. BSA's bankruptcy is the start. There will be many more youth organizations going down over the next decade and what comes out may not be pretty. Lets hope the lawmakers spend some time providing rules for youth organizations to follow (and then be protected by) instead of just changing SOLs.

Our Cubmaster was thrown out of a liberal organization due to her association with the brown shirts of America (BSA). This was 2 years ago.

That is the $64,000 $3,000,000,000 question.

BSA should make sure their offer is one the claimants cannot refuse. Essentially, the lawyers on the other side would not see significantly more $ if they pursue liquidation. Lets say BSA decides they can survive without 2 or 3 of our 4 HA bases. They should include those assets in the settlement regardless of the judge's near term decision. Why? Because that decision can be appealed and those appeals can take YEARS. One example ... Milwaukee archdiocese cemetery trust fund (which was litigated against Jeff Anderson). The archdiocese argued that the trust fund is off limits in their bankruptcy as it was specifically created in 2007/2008 to cover the cost of Catholic cemeteries. Jan 4 2011 the archdiocese files for bankruptcy. The creditors committee claims the transfer of $ to the fund was illegal. June 28 2011 the Cemetery trust fund files claims to keep the $55M of their assets out of the settlement. May 25 2012 The creditor committee asks the judge for summary judgement to reject that claim. Jan 17 2013 the judge agrees with the creditors committee July 29 2013 the US District court reverses the bankruptcy court ruling March 9 2015 the court of appeals agrees and reverses the bankruptcy court It was then appealed to the supreme court who refused to hear this. That was a fight over $55M of assets. It took 4+ years and went through multiple courts of appeals. If BSA wants this settled quickly, they will need to give up nearly everything but their trademarks. Otherwise, they need a plan to last 4+ years of legal battles. There is no in-between and their leadership team must make that call now.

I expect zero chance this happens. - If you are in the insurance business and threaten bankruptcy when you are asked to pay out claims, what is the value of your product? Every insurance competitor would highlight that when working with businesses. - Most of these companies are publicly traded. I could imagine the stock price impact if their lawyers are saying they plan to go bankrupt if they have to pay a settlement. - The judge doesn't care if the insurance company has to go bankrupt. I don't know of any judge that would base a settlement on if the payer has the ability to pay. Settlements are based on the law and contracts. The judge would probably say fine, go bankrupt. You owe $5B. Now, I do expect the insurance companies to fight over the next several years to get as much leverage to lower their overall payout. Hopefully BSA can stay out of that fight and protracted legal fight. Kosnoff is fighting for council assets as he wants National, Council, Insurance and possibly CO assets. He wants the biggest pot of $ possible and likely believes liquidation of BSA may be the best way to get there.

For us, Covid is having a much bigger impact than the bankruptcy. That said, I do hope the bankruptcy goes away before fall recruiting. BSA/Councils shouldn't get involved. Let's look at it from Top down. How much can BSA really provide without liquidating. Let's say National sells all land, HA bases, artwork & investments and can create a $1B victims fund. Lets say the councils pitch in $2B for a total fund of $3B. The average payout by the Catholic church has been over $700K per victim. So, with a $3B fund, BSA can afford to pay 4,285 victims. Let's say insurance funds help cover some of this, so perhaps we can double the amount of claims we could cover to 8,500 or so. There are 95,000 claims. BSA's financial situation is not changed if it is 95,000, 50,000, 25,000, 15,000 or even 10,000 claims. They would need to see 85,000+ claims dropped before they could even consider reducing the victims fund. BSA needs to assume there will be more than 10,000 claims and simply focus on negotiating the settlement amount. That negotiation will be considered by the plaintiff team and basically they will have to decide if its worth fighting it further in court. The real financial impact will be the insurance companies. Lets say they need to pay out 350,000 per claim. They will care if its 10,000 or 95,000 ($3.5B to $33.3B). They are not going bankrupt (at least yet) and this will also be a precedent for other companies/organizations they insure. I expect insurance companies will not care if fighting this in court for 5 - 10 years will force BSA to liquidate. BSA needs to stay out of this, exit bankruptcy by making their best offer and let the insurance companies figure out if they will pay $30B or $3B over the next decade.

Correct, except the fitness requirements are in series. So, you cannot count the same 30 days/4 weeks of fitness for T - 2nd - 1st. The fitness is really the primary reason you can't go from cross over to 1st class in 3 - 4 weeks. I actually think its fine to allow work on the ranks in parallel. The vast majority of my scouts take 2 - 3 years to get to first class anyway (only scouts with a focus on rank can come close to the 12 - 18 months to 1st class). If this was done in series, only the truly rank focused scouts would advance at all.