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Everything posted by Eagle1993
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As mentioned before in this thread, allow 18 year old seniors to be registered as youth. While that doesn't help 19 or 20 year olds, it addresses the biggest issue. I would have the rule be for Scouts BSA Youth change to: Youth can join Scouts BSA if they have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old, OR have earned the Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old, OR are age 11 but have not reached 18 OR have not completed 12 grade and are under 19 years. To age into Scouts BSA: Complete 5th grade and at least 10 years old Earned AOL and at least 10 years old OR 11 years old To age out of Scouts BSA Have not completed 12th grade and under 19 years old OR have not reached 18 years old So, this would allow seniors in high school to finish scouts BSA with their friends. It also puts a hard break at 19 AND allows those kids that graduate high school at 16 to continue in scouts until they are 18. Another option is to break up Scouts BSA into younger/older youth programs, but I'm not sure that is the best decision. We use the grade level to start Scouts BSA but not to end it. Again, this doesn't fix everything, but it would help allow Seniors in high school to finish scouts with their friends. Right now, they cannot.
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Siblings have the exact same rules as other scouts for tenting per YPT. That is why I am wondering, per YPT, can an 18 year old adult leader be with their younger scout sibling without violating BSA policies. The way they are written today, it looks like they cannot be one on one. I know the sibling scenario is ridiculous but it goes to two points. 1) BSA requiring you to follow YPT outside scouting events. While they can recommend and should make clear that you cannot simply call something a non scouting event to get around YPT, they should not include non scouting events under their rules. I expect this is violated all the time. (For example, I know a lot of scouts have sleepovers at a kids house who is an adult leader. 99% of the time not parents are not registered adult leaders therefore violating 2 deep.) 2) We need a better way to handle 18 year olds … and likely 19 & 20 year olds. Venturing doesn’t help as they follow the same YPT today. I also agree that having a 18 year old (or even 17 year old) one on one with a 11 or 12 year old could be a risk. Today’s rules make it nearly impossible to have a 18 year old ASM unless you ignore aspects of YPT outside scouting or they have no friends in scouts.
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I’ll also add that my case is common. Most 18 year olds likely have friends in scouts. Many 18 year olds likely go to school with scouts. My guess is many if not most 18 year old “adult leaders violate YPT outside scouting activities. I think it is a good area to clarify to help keep them in BSA without having to look the other way on aspects of YPT.
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I thought so as well, but couldn't find any acceptations for family. At this point, it looks like he will not register. I talked with a few in our Troop and technically, if he keeps his participation to less than 72 hours he is fine. 18 year old Eagle Scout ... sorry buddy, take a hike as the BSA doesn't need you. What is crazy is that 18 year olds don't even count as adult leaders for 2 deep leadership... so 18, 19 & 20 year olds are pretty much considered nothing but a liability to the BSA (outside the hundred left in Venturing). To me, BSA should allow high school seniors to finish as youth in the program (as long as they are under 19). That would solve a ton of issues that I am starting to see (including having to Eagle before senior year).
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The encounter could create a time paradox, the result of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's worst-case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy.
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The only answer is to stop scouting or stop being a friend of the 17 year old. Also, since they are in the same school and same robotics team, end that as well. That is the only way for it to work. I expect BSA would agree. Its not worth the trouble. How many cases of sex abuse were new 18 year old ASMs assualting their 17 year old ... my guess is almost 0, but that doesn't matter. One other question, as I have one other 18 year old ASM. Is it ok for an Adult to be one on one with their youth sibling? I have a 18 year old ASM who has a 13 year old brother .. both in the Troop. They are one on one many times outside scouting. Are they violating YPT and should I report the 18 year old to my DE? Just curious how far we are expected to take this. I 100% agree that as an adult leader (44 years old), I should not be hanging out with any youth scouting member (other than my kids) one on one, regardless of activity. I'm fine with that. What I am seeing, the rules as written, make it nearly impossible to have an 18 year old continue in scouting ... unless they have no friends in the program.
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I think he is talking about outside scouting activities. To tell an 18 year old he has to give up a friendship to join as ASM is insane. It is not the intent of YPT. Basically, once you turn 18 you really can’t be in scouting as it is likely you will be around a 17 year old scout. Also, there is this. Private online communications (texting, phone calls, chat, IM, etc.) must include another registered leader or parent. So he can’t call his friend without his friends mom on the call.
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My issue is this: So ... my 18 year old Adult ASM, per YPT, CANNOT hang out with scouting youth (like his 17 year old best friend) outside of scouting activities.
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A senior in high school should be treated as a youth as long as he/she is under 19. We have youth that turn 18 before their senior year starts.
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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
I don't think that was the goal. Perhaps it was, but if it was, that is crazy. I thought the point was that if they did a proper sample test, they could determine what % of claims were invalid. If a large enough were invalid, then perhaps, it would mean more if not all should be reviewed. So ... it is more like, I have a truck of apples and I randomly pick and audit a sample of those apples. If I pick a large enough sample and it is truly random, I can predict the % of bad apples in that truck. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
If you randomly select those 1,400 claims (by law firm, location, age, etc.) you could predict what % you would expect to see as invalid overall. I didn't realize the way the broke up the categories and would need to defend that statistical sample. That seemed pretty questionable and I'm glad the judge rejected it. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
The good news from today is we are seeing some motions denied or approved instead of the kick the can down the road we have seen previously. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
He has been predicting this would turn into a mess from the beginning and it really looks bad today for the Coalition/TCC. Kosnoff predicted it and I have to give him credit for that. Now, to be clear, I DO NOT want to see the BSA dissolved. I am hopeful we see a deal that includes LCs and COs sometime within the next 6 months. I'm probably more optimistic now that a deal is done, but only because I expect the Coalition to sell out their claimants and BSA to throw the COs under the bus ... allowing a target for the state lawyers in the future. We will see what happens over the next few weeks. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Kosnoff is looking pretty good right now. I wonder how many times he laughed during the hearing. Now, the Coalition/TCC is probably luck the Hartford deal wasn't struck down. It gives them a bit more leverage. Let's see what happens now. (I wonder if that $800M deal is at risk given today). -
We have a scout ready to start his Senior year of high school that just turned 18. He wants to keep participating, so I said sure, fill out this adult leader application & take YPT. Now, the questions... - Can he be with a scouting friend (currently 17), 1-1 at a scouting function? - As an adult leader, would there be an issue if he was with his friend, 1-1, at a non scouting function? I have 0 concerns in terms of actual safety. They are best friends and have been for 14 years. But now, at 18, one is treated as an adult by BSA. Any thoughts?
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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
I believe the TCC said in a Townhall that Harford represented 40% of total insurance liability. Does this mean the rest, combined, would be $1.2B? My guess is that they would want more, but since Hartford got BSA to sign onto a deal, they have them over the barrel. $800M seems light for 40% of total insurance liability. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
The NY window has now closed (August 13). It will be interesting to compare the various organizations and number of lawsuits/claimants. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Any update on the hearing today? I didn't see one but may have missed it. -
For the first time since we had kids, both my wife and I were working all summer. So, we had to do what many other families do ... figure out child care while school is out of session. While I have been deep in scouting and had an inkling there were some issues with Cub Scout summer camps, it became apparent this year. My daughter is in both Cub Scouts and GSUSA. I would have loved to have her attend the summer camps these scouting organizations offered ... but we didn't sign her up for a variety of reasons. Our Cub Scout summer camp offered programs, but they excluded Fridays ... which means we would have to figure out child care for that 1 day. They pushed hard for parents to volunteer. Most of their offerings required us to drive about 45 mins each way. So ... what does their "competition" offer. No volunteer requests. 5 days a week of camp. Local (15 min drive or less + any bus ride ❤️0 mins) ... and they handle all bussing. We signed her up for 7 weeks of camps from a variety of institutions (JCC, local nature centers, zoo. local museum and the humane society). The BSA Cub Scout day camp was simply not competitive. I hear the same from other families in my area. To me, summer camps create the major bond between an organization and youth/families. Even though it is only 1 week long, many times, I see families putting out yard signs, talking to neighbors, etc. about the camp & organization. I'm not sure how widespread this is, but if BSA is failing to get Cub Scouts going to their summer camps, I'm concerned that we will continue to see less engagement from parents/youth and a decline in the program. I know locally, there have been some attempts to fix some of the issues, but I really think BSA Cub Scout Day camps should: Last all 5 week days (no partial weeks). I expect a slightly shorter day Fridays would be ok. Be located a reasonable distance from kids and require parents to limit commute. (Offer bussing options for a fee, but kids shouldn't have to be on a bus for hours a day.) Hire staff ... don't request parents to volunteer to run the camp. If you do, offer a discount, but don't use that as your primary staffing plan. Have a great, energetic camp director who understands 1st - 5th graders and the scouting program. Pay them. If our council fixed these issues, I think I could absolutely sell this camp to families. Then, kids going to the camp (perhaps for multiple weeks) would really get into scouting (along with their families). I know Cub Scouts is more than just summer camp ... but I think we are missing a big opportunity with our current offering. How do Cub Scout day camps operate in your area? Do you see similar issues compared to competitive offerings?
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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
This is a great question and my hunch is you will likely never have a 100% safe program when youth & adults are involved. I've seen some proposals that I think could help (more open reporting) and others that I doubt would have any real impact (warning labels). I would be curious to see proposals from child abuse experts after reviewing the more recent incidents (5-10 years). -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
However, if there were large numbers of men sexually assaulting kids in those programs, we would be seeing large numbers of lawsuits filed now. The laws are the same for all organizations ... if there were a massive number of sex abuse claims we would be seeing a flood of lawsuits against these other youth serving organizations. We are not. Why ... because a combination that BSA was attractive to pedophiles and BSA didn't address the problem sufficiently. From Scout's Honor, 1991: Also from Scout's Honor, 1991, the chair of BSA's safety committee never received information about sex abuse. I think we are seeing the results of that today. The laws are the same for all organizations, but BSA is one of two that declared bankruptcy due to sex abuse lawsuits. They have 84,000 claims now. The other, USA Gymnastics, has just over 500. Neither should be blaming victims or society. They should admit their own failings, compensate victims and do their best to prevent it from reoccurring. Too often, this thread seems to venture into blaming laws, society, lawyers and the claimants. I think there is enough evidence through prior lawsuits and investigative journalists that BSA failed to sufficiently protect youth. BSA decided to abandon future fights in court and declare bankruptcy. Given that, we need to pay and do our best to protect kids in the future. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
I understand the point and I agree there was a broader issue in society. But right now, BSA is the only organization ever to have anything close to 84,000 claims of sex abuse. So, if this is a problem everywhere, why doesn’t 4H, Girl Scouts, Big Brothers, YMCA, the Boys Club, etc, have tens of thousands of claims? The reason is that for decades, the BSA was the best organization to join if you were a pedophile. It is horrible to think of, but pedophiles figured out if you are a scoutmaster you can go out into the woods with prepubescent boys and get away with your sick fantasies. BSA knew they had an issue and senior leadership hid it. It makes me sick as I love the program and believe the vast majority of men donated countless hours and upheld the honor of scouting. However, the information in the Washington Times articles made it clear. Senior leaders at BSA knew they had an issue, didn’t want the bad publicity and likely thought not much could be done. We are here not because of victims nor lawyers nor even a few rough employees. We are here because BSA national leaders took too long to act to protect kids. If BSA survives, which I think it will and should, we need to make sure that never happens again. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
I tend to agree. BSA should be helping to pay to include CO coverage OR they should exclude LC and COs from the settlement. To only exclude COs and tell them “good luck” is not appropriate. I can find no case where a CO had to pay out for sex abuse; however, they will clearly be sitting ducks if National BSA and Local Councils get immunity. For BSA to do this to COs shows they can never be trusted. If I were a CO, I would never sign a piece of paper from the BSA. In fact, I would request the BSA sign my liability waivers. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Not sure if this is 100% true. Think of it this way. A scout in a Troop in an Illinois council travels to Wisconsin for summer camp. He is sexually assaulted at camp. Does the SOL is Wisconsin apply or Illinois? What about the reverse? This isn’t a black/white situation and individual claimants are giving up their right to sue in state courts. The judge cannot simply wipe out their claims and if she does expect a decade of appeals. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
Eagle1993 replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Don’t forget that it is BSA National declaring bankruptcy. They were headquartered in NJ and NY prior to 1978. When the statements of time barred claims come out, is that per the state the crime occurred or Texas, NJ and/or NY laws? I legal theory was that National BSA could be sued based on the laws of the state is incorporated in. I would be shocked if the judge threw out 50,000 claims. Now, if the claim doesn’t meet NJ, NY, Texas or the state where it occurred… perhaps those could be tossed. However, the issue is that BSA LCs are attempting to get protection from future lawsuits. Due to that and the fact thar SOL laws are constantly changing its hard to see those claims being completely tossed. Perhaps there is a weight vote where certain claim votes are higher dollar value than others. I just don’t see this as a quick simple issue given the various state laws involved and what BSA is asking in return.