Eagle1993
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Posts posted by Eagle1993
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Just now, CynicalScouter said:
Total asset avoids the problem of councils declaring "restricted" assets that clearly are not. For example, San Diego Imperial claims, based on "restricted" it has net unrestricted assets of -$566,856 and yet somehow they are contributing $2,661,800
Yes ... I think sometimes "unrestricted" is a grey area. I know my council has listed a bunch of properties as restricted but are looking at selling them anyway.
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3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
Beat me to it by about 20 minutes. I was cutting and pasting from the PDF as fast as I could and I was looking at TOTAL Net assets (rather than net unrestricted).
That is another good look. I took the most optimistic (in terms of claimants) aspect of payouts. Assuming that every council is 100% correct on their net unrestricted assets. It would be good to see the total asset look as well. Obviously there are many other factors (like SOLs, # of claims) that could be factored in the payout by council.
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Total payout from LCs = $519,588,540 vs total $1,870,754,935 net unrestricted assets = 27.8%
Local Council Name Total Contribution Net Unrestricted Assets % Payout Greater Alabama 3,685,328 5,858,141 63% AlabamaFlorida 114,311 162,947 70% Mobile Area 34,897 76,647 46% Tukabatchee Area 832,901 3,625,053 23% Black Warrior 767,974 2,273,695 34% Grand Canyon 7,007,972 9,582,089 73% Catalina 1,080,484 2,930,433 37% De Soto Area 130,903 734,154 18% Westark Area 942,308 1,737,613 54% Quapaw Area 4,616,045 12,824,556 36% Golden Gate Area 8,000,000 10,325,190 77% Sequoia 567,536 9,912,453 6% Southern Sierra 148,908 -249,930 -60% Pacific Skyline 2,905,055 7,927,061 37% Long Beach Area 4,262,425 5,122,574 83% Greater Los Angeles Area 8,000,000 31,726,269 25% Marin 1,030,344 3,474,055 30% Orange County 13,008,500 38,005,058 34% Redwood Empire 197,221 1,412,193 14% Piedmont 541,098 5,544,891 10% California Inland Empire 1,154,569 2,893,220 40% Golden Empire 1,320,000 6,551,803 20% San DiegoImperial 2,661,800 -566,856 -470% Western Los Angeles County 1,250,000 9,690,805 13% Los Padres 1,834,155 14,453,991 13% Silicon Valley Monterey Bay 10,000,000 33,397,061 30% Ventura County 325,018 1,437,344 23% Verdugo Hills 973,434 6,230,000 16% Greater Yosemite 2,200,000 3,753,019 59% Pikes Peak 1,718,941 5,605,495 31% Denver Area 6,000,000 21,140,913 28% Longs Peak 2,936,807 4,722,329 62% Rocky Mountain 11,492 659,135 2% Connecticut Rivers 4,083,054 6,164,604 66% Greenwich 802,477 8,182,865 10% Housatonic 235,901 1,224,069 19% Old North State 4,767,600 10,589,939 45% Connecticut Yankee 2,581,836 4,716,717 55% DelMarVa 2,241,287 12,402,191 18% National Capital Area 8,000,000 33,820,605 24% Central Florida 1,224,354 8,604,279 14% South Florida 3,163,180 14,275,784 22% Gulf Stream 1,170,000 3,129,806 37% North Florida 5,284,701 7,459,145 71% Southwest Florida 2,121,962 7,997,609 27% Greater Tampa Bay Area 6,052,120 18,192,495 33% Chattahoochee 937,997 6,082,594 15% Atlanta Area 8,000,000 58,149,032 14% GeorgiaCarolina 326,070 1,786,314 18% Flint River 766,174 6,970,107 11% Central Georgia 299,458 1,392,435 22% South Georgia 436,247 1,952,636 22% Coastal Georgia 2,584,395 17,382,082 15% Northwest Georgia 802,019 1,600,467 50% Northeast Georgia 2,138,766 6,396,650 33% Aloha 1,338,358 5,975,712 22% Mountain West 2,020,156 7,578,672 27% Grand Teton 1,091,207 6,775,425 16% Prairielands 467,331 2,252,777 21% Three Fires 1,601,000 2,454,029 65% Northeast Illinois 2,190,574 8,230,332 27% Illowa 783,586 3,364,933 23% W.D. Boyce 1,045,115 3,004,490 35% Mississippi Valley 989,191 3,795,781 26% Abraham Lincoln 1,568,064 2,458,695 64% Hoosier Trails 757,931 1,968,860 38% Buffalo Trace 553,341 2,586,680 21% Anthony Wayne Area 1,309,804 3,604,204 36% Crossroads of America 4,321,870 24,178,049 18% Sagamore 1,149,115 4,861,534 24% LaSalle 1,319,467 5,790,020 23% Hawkeye Area 446,691 1,100,691 41% Winnebago 723,157 2,670,485 27% MidIowa 2,502,671 16,033,550 16% Northeast Iowa 678,374 2,452,014 28% Coronado Area 856,886 2,710,907 32% Santa Fe Trail 203,382 762,886 27% Jayhawk Area 345,573 1,777,238 19% Quivira 975,000 4,157,657 23% Blue Grass 110,356 1,520,150 7% Lincoln Heritage 3,632,563 12,521,252 29% Calcasieu Area 442,315 2,310,197 19% Istrouma Area 680,000 2,688,810 25% Evangeline Area 167,830 243,363 69% Louisiana Purchase 1,167,454 4,170,751 28% Southeast Louisiana 1,877,632 5,729,971 33% Norwela 2,936,807 12,640,310 23% Katahdin Area 275,157 386,682 71% Pine Tree 904,025 3,651,504 25% Baltimore Area 4,317,564 12,242,788 35% MasonDixon 345,990 3,737,266 9% Cape Cod and Islands 844,020 4,903,912 17% Spirit of Adventure 3,840,767 8,058,233 48% Heart of New England 1,406,503 1,876,850 75% Western Massachusetts 664,939 1,514,624 44% Northern Star 7,223,055 45,643,422 16% Mayflower 5,035,539 22,562,733 22% Twin Valley 783,963 3,706,565 21% Voyageurs Area 510,201 1,210,218 42% Central Minnesota 276,941 2,483,885 11% Gamehaven 321,630 1,393,364 23% Choctaw Area 519,164 3,394,222 15% Andrew Jackson 1,512,001 1,519,057 100% Pine Burr Area 330,068 2,911,447 11% Ozark Trails 2,241,929 5,368,753 42% Heart of America 6,971,313 18,738,579 37% Pony Express 1,015,000 4,430,970 23% Greater St. Louis Area 7,986,838 31,740,144 25% Montana 3,181,676 33,748,789 9% Overland Trails 468,988 1,325,334 35% Cornhusker 356,000 3,827,718 9% MidAmerica 4,280,708 8,289,589 52% Las Vegas Area 3,385,736 4,968,407 68% Nevada Area 2,506,435 9,478,814 26% Daniel Webster 3,525,762 10,286,304 34% Northern New Jersey 3,064,566 6,863,268 45% Jersey Shore 386,141 1,120,096 34% Monmouth 3,170,811 10,212,112 31% Patriots' Path 3,704,240 7,830,214 47% Twin Rivers 2,595,200 4,229,406 61% BadenPowell 1,371,787 4,015,196 34% Longhouse 840,707 1,581,633 53% Five Rivers 831,968 2,972,059 28% Iroquois Trail 342,546 283,246 121% Greater Niagara Frontier 1,537,485 3,346,922 46% Allegheny Highlands 899,358 2,113,548 43% Theodore Roosevelt 3,989,485 9,905,508 40% Greater Hudson Valley 6,367,835 11,731,515 54% Seneca Waterways 8,000,000 11,797,728 68% Leatherstocking 4,493,457 11,828,471 38% Suffolk County 1,717,800 1,329,216 129% Rip Van Winkle 240,016 121,824 197% Great Southwest 116,570 1,275,497 9% Conquistador 1,950,432 2,700,824 72% Daniel Boone 656,424 7,829,640 8% Mecklenburg County 2,920,183 11,248,480 26% Central North Carolina 1,840,659 5,199,820 35% Piedmont 2,785,859 9,801,687 28% Occoneechee 1,946,429 6,056,221 32% Tuscarora 858,650 1,365,311 63% Cape Fear 1,044,895 5,557,337 19% East Carolina 1,940,873 5,040,234 39% Old Hickory 1,084,223 5,253,957 21% Northern Lights 1,915,148 13,766,368 14% Great Trail 3,059,259 9,525,356 32% Buckeye 2,614,529 6,322,015 41% Dan Beard 4,064,829 13,233,734 31% Tecumseh 653,395 2,799,022 23% Lake Erie 6,546,918 11,269,256 58% Simon Kenton 2,659,872 8,647,700 31% Miami Valley 1,255,126 5,399,371 23% Black Swamp Area 1,681,202 7,775,738 22% Pathway to Adventure 7,225,067 15,824,269 46% Erie Shores 4,161,154 22,222,575 19% Muskingum Valley 513,391 2,934,099 17% Arbuckle Area 572,866 4,618,434 12% Cherokee Area 315,366 5,014,481 6% Cimarron 282,652 1,932,008 15% Last Frontier 3,646,048 6,594,443 55% Indian Nations 2,637,142 28,426,208 9% Crater Lake 320,470 681,197 47% Cascade Pacific 10,000,000 34,421,289 29% Juniata Valley 421,504 1,893,688 22% Moraine Trails 1,196,485 6,858,072 17% Northeastern Pennsylvania 687,262 2,988,316 23% Minsi Trails 2,580,916 6,716,274 38% ColumbiaMontour 260,931 675,522 39% Bucktail 260,931 520,567 50% WestmorelandFayette 1,367,518 1,621,221 84% Pennsylvania Dutch 1,054,371 5,329,855 20% Cradle of Liberty 6,806,713 14,249,730 48% Laurel Highlands 5,972,147 23,961,119 25% Hawk Mountain 1,636,124 6,589,184 25% French Creek 699,673 2,525,616 28% Susquehanna 453,846 2,649,064 17% Chief Cornplanter 260,931 417,106 63% Chester County 1,559,680 6,856,711 23% New Birth of Freedom 2,713,971 7,383,106 37% Narragansett 6,440,530 18,836,603 34% Palmetto 165,998 442,822 37% Coastal Carolina 216,987 317,720 68% Blue Ridge 1,058,966 4,681,093 23% Pee Dee Area 889,440 2,207,773 40% Indian Waters 556,559 1,296,106 43% Cherokee Area 1,180,000 1,947,397 61% Great Smoky Mountain 1,193,687 5,869,902 20% Chickasaw 2,045,752 4,733,366 43% West Tennessee Area 140,520 135,786 103% Middle Tennessee 3,586,493 20,264,491 18% Texas Trails 627,654 1,567,414 40% Golden Spread 2,133,734 8,879,958 24% Capitol Area 4,196,142 45,026,850 9% Buffalo Trail 1,148,568 2,331,639 49% Circle Ten 7,989,824 1,828,738 437% Yucca 684,194 1,572,425 44% Bay Area 1,019,611 2,643,449 39% Sam Houston Area 7,968,144 88,569,253 9% South Texas 372,925 4,777,870 8% Three Rivers 802,596 1,071,295 75% Alamo Area 4,241,105 15,476,476 27% Caddo Area 506,208 2,309,301 22% East Texas Area 1,505,910 3,605,254 42% Northwest Texas 529,586 1,551,351 34% Crossroads of the West 4,413,897 36,894,524 12% Green Mountain 802,732 1,652,225 49% Colonial Virginia 347,149 581,632 60% Tidewater 621,354 861,184 72% Shenandoah Area 188,673 902,224 21% Blue Ridge Mountains 739,330 2,199,821 34% Heart of Virginia 2,067,014 6,509,720 32% Blue Mountain 673,098 510,479 132% Mount Baker 2,150,000 7,795,644 28% Chief Seattle 7,517,262 33,363,479 23% Great Alaska 579,090 6,710,102 9% Inland Northwest 164,963 118,020 140% Pacific Harbors 2,260,810 5,353,855 42% Grand Columbia 254,101 2,956,830 9% Mountaineer Area 527,717 3,466,293 15% Buckskin 1,890,783 9,024,883 21% Ohio River Valley 895,582 2,925,194 31% Glacier's Edge 615,218 3,107,723 20% Gateway Area 328,075 1,295,142 25% Samoset 744,921 4,149,307 18% BayLakes 2,876,230 12,448,113 23% Three Harbors 3,685,039 17,038,431 22% Chippewa Valley 411,891 4,663,116 9% Greater Wyoming 405,893 2,035,401 20% Greater New York 9,000,000 10,041,590 90% Potawatomi Area 560,174 2,395,254 23% Great Rivers 420,000 2,031,475 21% Blackhawk Area 1,611,059 5,023,665 32% Puerto Rico 233,059 6,883,357 3% Longhorn 1,619,485 6,059,764 27% Suwannee River Area 224,459 -238,956 -94% Garden State 3,890,626 9,300,738 42% Pushmataha Area 83,882 415,595 20% South Plains 755,075 583,361 129% Black Hills Area 160,573 664,784 24% Midnight Sun 1,023,336 2,126,874 48% Oregon Trail 3,141,676 8,408,697 37% Rainbow 759,968 3,812,852 20% Sequoyah 796,698 4,270,519 19% Sioux 524,247 1,496,185 35% Texas Southwest 221,936 916,498 24% Yocona Area 291,074 863,638 34% Virginia Headwaters 287,066 217,980 132% Gulf Coast 140,734 -292,475 -48% Rio Grande 562,009 1,906,030 29% Washington Crossing 1,390,180 3,906,611 36% Michigan Crossroads 7,983,003 25,109,723 32% Transatlantic 447,138 966,036 46% Far East 778,355 2,886,174 27% -
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I think if Judge Silverstein is watching the Purdue Pharma case, it may be a while to get to the final approval of the plan. Judge Drain (Purdue Pharma judge) is being blasted by families (one read a 30 minute statement to him that said he was hand picked as essentially approves releases easily and was manipulated by the Sacklers). He is also being ripped by the US Trustee and state AGs. Now, I'm not saying his decision was good or bad, only that he will be know for this decision and it isn't very popular. That said, he had 95% of the claimants approved and most major parties in support.
I question if Judge Silverstein would proceed right to a claimant approval if the TCC and US Trustee objects. I can't imagine this massive case that is granting coverage of non debtor parties going through without fully digging into why the TCC objects and determining if that is valid. If Drain is being blasted now, what would be the fall back on Silverstein if she approved the case over the objection of her hand picked representative of claimants? I'm sure that is in her mind and will dig into the TCC's objections (assuming they are not supporting the plan per media reports).
So ... I think once again we will see stories of plan agreed upon, etc. Perhaps. However, if the TCC objects we may have to wait some time.
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48 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
The LDS payout at $250 million is a game changer. LDS has 2,430 known claims against it. As Kosnoff pointed out, over half of claims filed do NOT list the CO, so let's double that to 5000.
- $250 million/2500 claims = $100,000
- $250 million/5000 claims = $50,000
Now you know why COs are upset. BSA + Councils + Hartford
$1.637M/84,000 claims = $19.5K per claim for all three combined.
LDS alone is on the hook for double that rate.
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Exhibit C of Disclosure has every LC’s contribution listed.
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I’m somewhat hopeful; however, for some reason I feel more pessimistic than I did last week. Perhaps I’m overthinking this but I tend to think we may still be a ways from a final solution. To me, the LDS payout is the big hurdle, followed by Hartford.
1) The TCC carries a ton of influence. I expect the judge will question why the Coalition supports it vs the TCC. At minimum, TCCs non support will impact the vote. Coalition will have to defend that they are representing their clients and not their financial backers.
2) US Trustee will likely object. In the Purdue Pharma the US Trustee objected and now has asked for the approved plan to be stayed as they are appealing. Even if this gets approved, expect appeals and delays.
3) Purdue Pharma judge Drain made changes to the plan and was slightly hesitant approving it. That plan had 95% claimants approving. The BSA judge doesn’t want the BSA to end, but if she is absolving the liability of insurance companies, National, LCs, COs …. she will be extremely cautious.
The big pots of money are now gone and the total payout for most victims will be peanuts with no hope of further payouts in state courts. If there was some big potential targets post bankruptcy we may have had a better shot of getting this through now.
By adding a CO and including Hartford this case got more complicated which may not speed up closure.I tend to think now that the TCC and lawyers that have state court filings are going to fight tooth and nail against the deal. The judge has had almost no sympathy for the Coalition, we will see what she thinks of the TCC.
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36 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
Kosnoff says TCC will oppose.
So it will be TCC vs. Coalition, BSA, Hartford, LCs, and LDS.I would take this as a sign that Kosnoff could support something short of dissolving BSA. The issue with the coalition is that I am sure they don’t control 100% of the votes of their claimants. If TCC objects along with other attorneys it could fail when it goes to vote. BSA really needs the TCC onboard. This will be a disaster if a plan goes to vote and that vote fails.
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21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
I don't think a TCC plan is a panacea either. I think the Kosnoff/burn it all down contingent of victims and lawyers is enough to scuttle any plan/fail to get 2/3rds.
To be fair, we have NO idea what he will recommend when it comes to the actual vote. You must consider that negotiations are ongoing when any party (BSA, collation, TCC, Kosnoff, insurance companies) makes statements in public. Kosnoff has been following the case closely and knows the judge will do everything possible to prevent BSA from filing CH7. So, I'm not 100% convinced he will ask his claimants to vote against the deal if he knows the alternate is worse for him and the victims he represents. I'm sure he will state its the Coalition and/or TCC's fault, but I am not yet sold that he will reject any non CH7 deal. I'm also not 100% convinced the TCC will sign off on the deal if BSA has one with the Coalition. Time will tell and even when a deal comes out, you may be right, it could fail to get 2/3rds.
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They have a good PLC along with a large contingent of ASMs and have been doing this for decades. Good bet is they have fall back plans all ready. I am 100% sure that those 600 campouts had several that were rescheduled (within the month) due to bad weather. I think many of our Troops could learn a lot from this one. Unless I hear otherwise, I assume they did it safely and with good scout spirit!
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2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:
IMHO in reading his prior statements, unless that BSA Plan 5.0 is total liquidation of BSA OR BSA and Local Councils, he will attempt to rally victims to reject.
I hedged a bit as on twitter a few times he told people he had not yet decided his opinion until he read the plan. I'm not 100% convinced he would only support Ch 7. That said, I think he would likely want to see a much higher contribution from the LCs than they are paying currently in the RSA. Now, if BSA and LCs increased their contribution to a significant portion of their total assets I would think he could support the deal. Note that I am not saying this is feasible or likely, only that I wouldn't be surprised if he supported a deal short of Ch 7 ... just not this deal.
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45 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
Then the judge will have a choice: order a cramdown (I know, I know, never happened before in a sexual abuse related bankruptcy) or let BSA die.
I don't see the judge letting BSA die. She seems to have a two clear goals .. don't let BSA die and don't let her decisions lose on appeal. I think she would be ok BSA dies due to massive debt post bankruptcy or a failure of their business plan ... she just doesn't want this on her CV.
So ... I expect if Kosnoff is able to rally support to get the plan rejected (note we don't know if, in the end, he will attempt that yet as there is no final official plan) then it is likely the toggle plan (BSA only) and let the state courts and future bankruptcies sort it out.
We are almost 2 weeks removed from BSA saying they would come back to the court with an update. The only update they have had is a request to defer state courts until Jan 10 (or later). Concerning that TCC has not seen a plan. One would think it is either Hartford and/or CO negotiations that are the cause of the delay.
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45 minutes ago, fred8033 said:
... side comment ... for me, humor comes in strange places. I looked at the twitter feed above. I'm used to social media feeds with thousands of likes. Even our states governor gets 2k+ to 5k+ likes per post. Above post had three. ... doesn't mean anything. I just thought it was funny.
That is 2 more likes the the combined total of likes for all of Roger Mosby's tweets in the history of Twitter.
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Any updates from the TCC townhall?
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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:
BSA just telegraphed it is planning on this taking a long, long time into 2022 at least.
In short, due to bankruptcy, civil proceedings against BSA AND "BSA related parties" (read: COs and LCs) were automatically stayed BUT those stays had to be extended past a certain point. The latest, dated July 21, stayed all state (and federal) civil proceedings against BSA until October 28, 2021.
This is the July order. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/44cef109-6770-44d3-9f73-a16bbe1cb10c_185.pdf
The effect was that some 1000+ state civil cases were placed in stasis/paused pending the outcome of the bankruptcy, with some limited exceptions (the GSUSA vs. BSA suit is proceeding for example). That number is now up to at least 1200.
BSA has now filed for a new extension past October 28, 2021 and into at least January 10, 2022 and perhaps even longer.
And for those paying attention at home: that is just past the December 31, 2021 recharter deadlines.
Didn't the TCC agree to the extension last time only because local councils promised to provide roster information along with CO details? I wonder if Local Councils complied.
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11 hours ago, vol_scouter said:
Seems to me that the BSA needs to thread the needle and satisfy the claimants representatives, LCs, and COs. Not certain that it is possible but not certain that the BSA cannot make a viable business plan without one of the pieces.
The only major hurdle stopping progress right now is Hartford, and the paths to clear that hurdle are limited. There were rumors of a new settlement with Hartford but so far, nothing concrete.
Once the Hartford deal is cleared, I don't see the BSA or TCC/Coalition delaying the closure of bankruptcy on CO negotiations. At that point, each CO will either be on this train or at the station. I expect that many COs see the writing on the wall that they are being left behind. BSA will need a plan to efficiently charter units without COs as we enter in rechartering in the next month.
I do expect BSA will fight hard to keep LCs as part of the deal ... harder than they would fight for COs. That said - if the Hartford deal (or perhaps the Coalition payments or lack of Century/Chubb discovery) destroys the current RSA, I expect BSA would be willing to leave bankruptcy with a National only deal. Definitely less than ideal.
@MYCVAStory has mentioned this many times. There is no guarantee that all legal avenues will be covered by this bankruptcy and claimants should ensure they have legal representation in state court. That could be for COs and/or LCs depending on the outcome. TCC has mentioned this multiple times as well. Nothing is in stone yet, hopefully we see more progress soon.
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6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
The judge approved the RSA WITH TWO MAJOR AMENDMENTS:
- The Hartford settlement is still in.
- The Coalition is not getting paid ahead of everyone else.
For those two reason, BSA has never formally asked the judge to sign an order making the RSA (or what is left of it) go into effect. Lauria noted in the last hearing: the moment BSA does offer such a proposed order, Hartford can claim BSA is in breach of their agreement and file a claim for damages against BSA that takes precedence above everyone else.
So, the RSA isn't going anywhere.
So it really means a few different paths, correct?
1) Proceed with the current Hartford deal. The TCC/Coalition said that is a non starter, so nope.
2) Renegotiate the Hartford deal. I'm sure discussions are underway, so we will see.
3) Submit a plan with the Hartford deal that is rejected by claimants. I believe that would then allow a 2nd plan to be submitted to claimants without the Hartford deal. However, that will add months and months to the timeline.
4) Go with the BSA only plan ... but perhaps that would still be a breach of the BSA agreement, so this may be a no go.
So, unless I am wrong, it seems like the options are renegotiate or submit a plan that will be likely to fail. Is there any other option?
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2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:
With two weeks to go until the September 21 hearing what could we expect?
1) From Local Councils: A listing of ALL local council payments as part of the settlement. As previously noted, some councils already released this info.
2) From BSA: who knows at this point. Could they bring forth a new RSA (with an increased Hartford settlement) and try their best to get it approved and then move on to the disclosure statement? Or just bypass the RSA stage and submit Plan 5.0 that integrates all the parts of the RSA/Plan 4.0 that were approved + with an increased Hartford settlement and statements-in-support from the TCC, FCR, and Coalition? If so, that greases the skids for the September 21 hearing, but doesn't mean 100% certainty because of all the other objections. Either way, I would expect some responsive filings to the challenges brought up to so far by others: that there's no way a bankruptcy court has the authority to judge 82,500 claims or do anything about them, that any such channeling injunction is void, that votes from victims in time-barred states should be set aside, etc.
3) From the U.S. Trustee: while not a veto-holder, I've been told (again my experience is state courts, not bankruptcy) that bankruptcy judges take U.S. Trustee statements seriously. Whatever the Office comes out with/already came out will will have to be addressed at that September 21 hearing.
3) From the COs: Who knows at this point. There's a ton of mediation and for all we know they are within minutes of signing a deal. Or they are deadlocked and prepared to fight BSA on September 21 kicking and screaming all the way.
4) From the insurers: We all know where this is going. Let's wait, wait, wait. Wait for (in no particular order) the aggregator depositions, depositions of the law firms involved with aggregators, vetting of all 82,500 claims, etc.
5) From Kosnoff: Burn it all down. Chapter 7 only. Liquidate everything. Repeat.
6) From sexual abuse victims not represented by Coalition or AIS: For those in states where they have no statutes of limitations (and therefore their claims are NOT time barred) most but not all have filed objecting to any vote plan that gives victims from time-barred states the same vote. Expect some more filings to this effect and some responsive filings.
7) From the judge: Probably not much. I will say one thing I've thought about since the hearing was how she ended it "noting" that "it is not too early" for parties to start making discovery and other requests for a confirmation hearing. You can never, ever predict what will happen, but that certainly to my ears sounded like "Let's start thinking about wrapping this up."
I have been looking at that Purdue Pharma bankruptcy and the US Trustee was pretty much ignored. I doubt the US Trustee will be able to derail to outline of the deal (she had that chance earlier).
I expect #4 insurance will be the big battle and discussion. Does the TCC and Coalition go in blind and agree to a total package, hoping for gold at the end of the rainbow in terms of insurance payments. Do they fight for a settlement up front now that the judge denied discovery. Do they abandon the current path and decide to go after them in state courts. Who knows ... but I expect this is the big discussion right now.
CO's, if they want, could buy their way into the deal. I expect the lawyers for the Coalition may be happy to leave them out as they can then sue them in state court. Right now, my guess is almost no CO is included in the final deal and there will be hundreds of lawsuits against them over the next few years.
I agree with your comment about the judge ... she wants this case done. She seems to be fair (she doesn't want to have it overturned on appeal) but the time for testing theories has passed.
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I thought the RSA was approved. What is the hold up? It really comes down to:
- Charter Orgs - While BSA would love to get them included, I see almost no chance they allow this to delay final resolution. BSA wants out and probably believes they can handle the damage from some COs leaving more than the damage from staying in bankruptcy. I expect this is probably not the primary cause of the delay.
- Coalition fees rejected - If anything, I would think this would hasten a deal as the Coalition is not getting an upfront payment. Now the only way for them to collect is to get a deal complete. So, while it may cause some angst, I would be surprised if this is the reason for any delay.
- Hartford - I absolutely believe this is gumming up the works. BSA will sign anything, so it is likely a negotiation between Hartford & TCC/Coalition. I don't expect the current Hartford deal to stick long term (I believe they only have the right to have a vote on their current deal). However, Hartford knows they can drag out this whole process a long time ... so this may be a time vs $ discussion.
- Chubb/Century - I have to think the Judge's rejection of sharing details caused some strategy changes by the TCC/Coalition. What if ... Century only pays out $250M and Harford a few hundred more. Instead of billions you are talking a total settlement for 84,000 claims of less than $2B. Less legal and admin fees that doesn't leave much. So ... perhaps, a total deal may not make sense now. Perhaps it makes more sense just to close out National BSA and leave LCs, COs and their insurance companies to battle in state courts.
I'm sure all of this is going through mediation/discussions which is leading to the delay. If the judge struck the Hartford deal & agreed to discovery of Chubb/Century we would have probably already seen the RSA formalized for the late Sept hearing. Her two rulings there just threw a major wrench in the process and now we wait.
In terms of councils, info has dried up. I haven't heard of any more townhalls, email announcements, etc. I'm curious if the Ad Hoc committee shut that down as technically, the deal is in limbo. There was a surge of info after that RSA ruling, but nothing recent.
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Does anyone know if there will be a National Jamboree in 2023? The one in 2021 was postponed and as of now it appears there will not be a National Jamboree in 2022. I know there is a World Jamboree in 2023 but was hoping there could be a National one as well.
We are attempting to determine our High Adventure plan for the summer of 2023 and National Jamboree was the top choice.
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14 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:
If you want to get litigious about it, there's a federal law that prohibits that kind of conduct.
https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/boyscouts.html
Overview of the Law
On January 8, 2002, President George W. Bush signed the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. Part of No Child Left Behind is the Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act, Section 9525 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, as amended by Section 901 of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (the Boy Scouts Act), which applies to public elementary and secondary schools, local educational agencies (LEAs), and State educational agencies (SEAs) that receive funds made available through the Department of Education. Under the Boy Scouts Act, which became effective on January 8, 2002, no such public school, LEA or SEA that provides an opportunity for one or more outside youth or community groups to meet on school premises or in school facilities before or after school hours shall deny equal access or a fair opportunity to meet to, or discriminate against, any group officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America, or any other youth group listed in Title 36 of the United States Code as a patriotic society.
OCR is charged with enforcing the Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act. Complaints alleging violations of this law may be filed using the OCR online complaint form or by contacting the OCR office with authority to handle complaints where the institution or entity you are complaining about is located.
- 10-13-04: Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM)
- 3-25-02: "Dear Colleague" letter
- 11-15-02: Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPRM)
I think they are close to violating this; however, they have pretty much banned all outside groups which probably makes them safe from lawsuits. We can reserve rooms (which we do) but we cannot have access to kids during the school day or have any posters, provide materials, etc. Our schools don't even provide public class lists like most do. We have a lot of lawyers in our community ....
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We have been pretty much banned from any easy recruiting at schools. No flyers, no signs, no scout talks no announcements, nothing. It has killed recruiting. What we have been able to do is find parent emails and put info up on next door and Facebook. While that helps, it pales in comparison to what we have been able to get in the past.
JSN is late Sept for our Pack… we are hopeful to see a rebound as we need to refresh our volunteer ranks.
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9 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:
I'll agree. What I DISagreed with previously was that idea someone came up with Q and A. There lies danger. Every time Mosby speaks anything and everything has to be cleared with lawyers. Did you see his NAM presentation? It looked like a hostage video: he was CLEARLY reading cue cards or notes. A pre-recorded video can be cleared with counsel. A live Q and A not so much.
I’d did and it looked bad. I will say I have been more impressed with people like Bryan Wendell, Richard Bourlon and Anthony Berger. I’ve found them more accessible than most professionals and while in some cases I don’t agree with all decisions at least I see some transparency and communication from them. I’ll also argue that BSA has been doing a great job improving their IT.
That said, BSA needs to improve their transparency, reduce their board and hold members accountable, get inspirational leaders (inspirational for youth) who are held accountable by members. This is not just an issue since bankruptcy. I’ve been impressed by other scouting orgs who seem to have more transparency and get to hold their leaders accountable.
Hopefully after bankruptcy we will see change, but I’m not holding my breath based on what I am seeing now.
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 6 - Plan 5.0/TCC Plan TBD
in Issues & Politics
Posted · Edited by Eagle1993
updated as it is not clear they picked the judge
If BSA only incorporated in 2019 I bet you he is correct (at least in terms of picking Delaware). BSA knew they were in serious financial trouble for many years.
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/money/business/2014/09/19/companies-turn-delaware-survive-bankruptcy/15891887/