Cubmaster Pete

That I am not sure of, but thats why I am asking questions.....

I think the consensus may be to have some joint events, but not everything?  Like den meetings?

I would find it difficult to try and run two programs at the same time.  An occasional shared activity now and then would be okay, like a family picnic, etc. but to run two programs at the same time?  Not my thing especially if some parents from one organization took umbrage with something someone did they didn't like in the other program.  Unless I am responsibility to a whole group, intermingling of two groups has potential ramifications I wouldn't want to deal with.  I'm the den leader, and some little girl says I touched her inappropriately, is it a Frontier Girls issue or is it a BSA issue? If she gets hurt on my watch, does BSA cover my liability when I get sued?

 

I see your point. We are still hammering out details, but I would require that every parent of a FG be present at every meeting for girls Tiger age or under, just like BSA requires.

BSA YP would apply, as far as if I had girls and boys at a den meeting, I would require both a male and female leader there. I would go so far as to require that parents stay with their kids the entire meeting. I have no issue with that. If you don't like that, find something else to involve your kid in.

The committee and I have decided we will move forward with starting a FG troop to run concurrent with our CS Pack. We have several families within the pack that have girls that want to be included in a more official capacity, as well as interest from outside families that only have girls.

Basically, the girls would participate in the CS program with NO changes to the CS program. FG is very flexible with requirements, so far as to accept BSA ones over their own. Lets say the Tigers are getting their "Rolling Tigers" adventure. The girls would do the same requirements, and get the "Bicycling" badge from FG. The girls would not be getting a Tiger or Wolf or Bear rank badge, but the equivalent advancement through FG.

The girls would be registered as FG, and there would be no mixing of finances between the two units, as they would be run separate. They would even have separate chartered organizations, which works for us and both org's have no issue with this. All we are doing is meeting together, pooling recources, and serving the entire family in our area. The troop that we share a CO with is receptive at this time, and while we do not have any prospective girls older than 5 yrs old right now, that would be a minor stumbling block if we get that far.

Council and District thought it was a great idea, so we have their ok on it. What are your thoughts? Potential problems, etc....? 

Getting into something new here.... not quite coed scouting but close. I don't want to water down the Cub Scout experience for the boys, but I don't think that will happen. Just want to serve all the youth in our area. We are a small rural pack/troop.

It would be appealing to me too.  Hopefully everyone makes a decision right for them. I have always been one to support a local unit.

I am enjoying my pack of 15 kids. I know all their names, their parents, and their siblings. The kids get way more out of the program I think....

Go with Troop 1 - No doubt in my mind.  The relationship issues are the main reason, goes where he feels welcomed and the adult drama isn't a factor.  There's no way the DL will follow him there and small troops offer a lot of advantages.  I took over a troop of 5 boys and within 3 years was at 28 boys.  Sign on as an ASM and pitch in and help may your son's scouting career a success.

Agreed 100%.  

Who says those boys will all cross over as a group? Do your best to convince them that Troop 1 is a better option. You must know some of the other parents.

At some point, M will not be able to coddle C anymore, or C will grow out of it. And if C decides he can't do scouts anymore because his dad is either not allowed to coddle him or does not anymore, then you picked a troop that you didn't like for no reason.

Any SM worth his salt won't tolerate parents intervening like this at the troop level, and would gently put a stop to it. Boy Scouting is an inherently different program than Cub Scouting, where boys NEED to make mistakes and fend for themselves sometimes (within an arms reach of course). And C would eventually not like this, become discouraged, and drop out.

Troop 1 would be happy to have you, your son, and his Den mates. I would be....

We have a presence at the "Meet the Teacher" night at each school with tri-fold boards full of photos, derby cars, trophies, Scoutcraft items and our life-size replica of Minecraft Steve in Cub Scout attire to be the initial draw to the table. We collect names of boys and parents, mobile numbers/email addresses. We buy a gross of Cub Scout pencils and give them to every boy who is on our prospect list.

 

How well has this worked? Past leadership of the pack has told us "We are not allowed at the meet the teacher night" So we have not done it the last time around (after myself and other parents took the reigns). But a subsequent discussion with the principal has shown this is untrue, so we NEED to be at this event. 

We are recruiting at the 15% level or so, and that seems low to me. Previous leadership let things slip, and it shows. 

 

This adult drama in a youth program just isn't worth the hassle.  Units don't fall apart because of the boys, they fall apart because of the adults.

Yes they do, seen it before.

I see two options. Take your den somewhere else that will welcome you. This sounds like a toxic environment. Convince parents who are have scouts coming up next recruitment behind you to do the same.  Let this pack die, like someone said earlier, it will anyway.

OR, just not say anything. Do your den stuff, attend pack meetings, etc. Have your own newsletter, do your own communication. Leave the committee alone to do their thing.

Personally, I'd leave. Not worth the aggravation.  

Do they still exist? Can I start one and thumb my nose at the council, and do my own thing?

Looking for something for my girls to do, and maybe have meetings concurrently with a cub scout pack meeting. I have some other interested parents who might be game. Is it possible?

Excellent responses, thank you.

The leadership of this troop came from the pack I am running now. They kept the pack running (barely) and it was not great. Have had to do some changes and program building to turn it around, but I feel like its growing and I am happy with the direction we are moving.

So they last of these leaders kids are crossing over next month, and they are going to be involved in the troop. My best guess is that a similar fate awaits the troop and that things will degrade and there may be nothing left. And here I am to build another program from scratch. Which I will do, but not that I am looking forward to it.

That all being said, could one say that boys who "eagle out" contribute to the demise of a unit?

Was having a light discussion with a few of my packs adult leaders, whom also have boys in the troop. One of them said something to the effect of "Yeah, John 'eagled out' of the troop so he is not involved much anymore" 

This kid is 15. Most the Eagles in the troop my pack feeds into are around 15, and they "eagle out". Has anyone heard this term used before? My gosh, getting your Eagle and leaving the program, when there is so much more to experience is, well, a tad disturbing to me. This particular dad used the same term when we were giving our report to our CO. Please tell me this is not the norm, that when boys get to this point they want, or are told, that the program is over for them.

I got my Eagle just before I turned 18. I was extremely busy with OA Exec Comm, Camp Staff, Troop Stuff, Philmont etc.... I had continued to work on it of course, just was having way too much fun doing other things. I could not imagine getting mine at 15 and being done. 

Acceptable for an adult to wear one at a B&G? I will wear an eagle necker, but a B&G seems like an acceptable occasion to wear the medal. Thoughts?

Where is your local Troop?  As a Webelos, he can attend Troop activities and meetings, and with a concerned mentor/Troop Guide, complete his Webelos/Arrow of Light requirements there (or just turn 11 and switch shirts).  Harder to do if he's the older brother of one of the wolves/Tigers, or your local Troop does nothing but Merit Badge work.

We have a decent relationship with them. I will bring that up as a possibility. His older brother will be in the troop in February.

In reality you don't have a Webelos and a bear den. If anything they should pair up and work together and it should be one of their parents running the den. Dont do everything or you will burn yourself out.

Right thats why I need to step back from it. They tried this once before with the Webelos dad running that den, didn't go very well. But that may be my only option

I am having some issues moving forward with lack of participation from families that don't want to or can't bring their kids to den meetings.

After February, we will have one Webelos, One Bear, and 6 Wolves (we have Tigers and lions but the problem does not lie there) Past leadership has awarded rank badges in May, regardless of whether or not requirements were met. These leaders are now gone, and I am trying to build up a program that was not working. We have had great success and recruitment (from Wolves/Tigers/Lions) after I have taken the helm, but are struggling with our older boys.

This year we combined the 6 Wolves and 1 Bear into a Den, and built the meetings so they can both work on requirements that are similar together. Problem is, the Bear does not show up to most of the den meetings, and all the work put in to have him finish his requirements. 

I have a Wolf and a Lion, I am the Cubmaster, I wear a lot of hats, etc... I have involved parents, a great (but small) Committee, so things are looking bright. But I just can't do another year with having to run a Webelos, Bear, Tiger den as well as deal with recruitment, Pack Meetings etc.

Do I just say  to the older boy parents "Hey, you guys need to figure this out yourself, because I can't do it all" We may be a small pack, but we are very active. They expect their boys to advance and get their rank, even though requirements are not met, because thats what was happening for so long. There was not oversight. I can't let that happen.

Thoughts?

We have three fundraisers a year. Labor Day Brat Fry, Wreaths and Frozen Pizza.

Everyone likes the Brat Fry (bbq) the most. We get great support from our community. Its during the annual village rummage sale, right in town. We sell bratwurst, hamburgers, and have families make baked goods for a bake sale, which is pure profit. Last year each boy that worked the brat fry made over $100 for his account.

$100 per year covers all registration and dues for us. That pays for all awards, neckers at the end of the program year, food for B&G and most activities. 

 

 

Not looking forward to having to replace all the new handbooks and leader guides we just invested in.  Last new printing was what, 2009?  So I guess the handbooks will be upcycled in 2023.

I intend on still using the leader guide, just three hole punch the new requirements ahead of that chapter so you remember. The handbooks and leader guides are more of a meeting planning resource than actual requirement book.

I am so happy, this makes things less redundant too. "Plant a terrarium AND plant seeds AND grow a sweet potato" Sheesh I have a greenhouse at home.

Never a problem with moving on and giving your scouts the best program you can find. Been there, done that.

Yep thats very true, you don't know "who knows who". The sad thing is, its possible that nothing will change at this unit. In my 25+ years as a scout and scouter, I have seen this many, many times.  Do any other scout families in this troop think the same as you?

I am glad you son has set a goal to get to eagle, and changing units to get out of a toxic situation that will prevent him from getting Eagle is the best you can do. 

Good luck to him, and you. Thank you for being a great scout parent that is involved and concerned. 

Wow. Well if were me, and this were my son, I would be looking for another unit. This type of behavior by any adult leader is ridiculous. 

Not knowing the details of what happened and what the situation is and just going by what you said, I would say that neither scout can be treated in this manner. I would get someone at council level involved because this is serious. Even if you don't want to stay in the unit because of it, you owe other boys in the troop to say something.

In this time where its sometimes tough to keep membership up, making a scout feel like he does not matter or his accomplishments are unappreciated is not ok.

Like the ideas thank you. We did do the "stations" at one recruitment meeting this past spring, and the turnout (6 boys) didn't warrant doing it again with all the setup. 

What are some ways to get parents and cubs "In the door"? We have found ALL of those who show sign up, so curious what you have done, activities, maybe language or talk points you have used in a flyer to lure people in? Handouts to kids at school?

Have any successful recruitment night ideas? Activities during the event, sample agendas, etc? Working with a pack that has been sliding downward for a few years, and now on an upswing, but we want to get families in the door and signed up. Whats been working for you?

Got back to 1976 as far as records go. So 40 years thats not too shabby. I just found out so we missed the anniversary year for 2016. But we can use the 40 years moniker for recruitment, etc.

We are a small pack, 25 registered boys, 20 or so active. We are in our 40th Year as a continuously chartered unit. What are some ideas on how we can celebrate this milestone?

Our unit (pack) was first chartered in 1945. I undersdtand that as far as the BSA is concerned, we are only as old as when the charted last lapsed and the unit was rechartered.

So my question is, can I get a veteran unit customized number patch for dating back to 1945, and just ignore any lapses in the charter?