Cubmaster Pete

We do all the right things, I think. Flyers at school, boy talks, then a Recruitment Night Event. 

Got 2 parents to show. One Tiger and One Lion. The tiger I am not worried about, its the Lion. Already have a den full of Tigers, not a big deal. But not being able have at least 2 more Lions is an issue. 

What are some ideas on what you do to increase join night attendance? We are a small pack but very strong, great parent involvement. 

I'm opposed because the program will need to be changed to incorporate girls in Scouting, and that takes away from the boys. Whatever you think about the various studies on whether single gender or coed education and programs are better for youth or not, the BSA's program is geared for them.

 

A parallel program already exists, GSUSA, and from what I keep hearing it sucks. I think GSUSA needs to change how they do things to attract the girls who want to be in Boy Scouts. 

What changes do you think will need to be made? I hear a lot of this "changing the program" but I never hear anyone say what they think that will be? Like specifics.... (btw I do not want any changes at all to the program, we we are I agreement there)

GSUSA does not want to change, and they won't. So many say that they should, but that's a dead end.

Those of you that have one, how do you run it?  Do you rely on donations only, or do you purchase used uniform parts from various sources (eBay, craigslist, thrift stores) and either sell back to scouts at low cost or give away?

And what do you try to accomplish with an exchange? Just that every boy has a shirt, or that every boy can afford a FULL uniform (shirt, pants, hat, etc...)

This spring our pack decided to produce our own recruitment flyers. When council heard this, my DE told us that units are not allowed to produce their own flyers and we need to use the ones national provides due to "Branding Issues"

Is this true, and if it is can anyone provide documentation?

My pack is toying with the idea of having a Cub Scout Event, to show off what we do, and use as recruitment. We would do this directly after school one afternoon.  Any experiences with this? Does it work, not work?  It is better this way than with a separate event at another time, or on the weekend?

I'm confused.

 

Were the people who were drinking waving guns around?

 

Were people, who were not drinking, waving guns around or were they wearing open carry and that made you uncomfortable?

 

Or were there some people drinking and some different people carrying guns? Were either of the activities illegal?

A little of both.

I was put off by the behavior of some club members while we were there. They knew we were there, they saw us, and were not setting a great example as adults, IMHO.

I am not uncomfortable with booze, or guns. Mixing the two bothers me, and booze has no place in scouting.

The club charters both the pack and the troop. The pack meets at the church, and they are aware. Never said a word.

A few months ago, we helped with a trash pickup. While we were there, lots of club members walking around with open containers, guns waving around, etc..... I was uncomfortable, so were the other leaders that were with. 

We were offered to fundraise during open shoots, but my leadership is concerned about the open containers at these events too.

Sportsmen (shooting sports) clubs around here removed their bars years ago. Bad mix.

Agreed. We brought the boys to a club meeting to give our annual report. Packed with guys drinking. Turned me off right away.

If not, then I'd recommend finding another site and explaining the circumstances to the CO ("CO, no offense but....").

 

As a former bartender, I'd find it interesting and a little surprising if they didn't lock up their alcohol.   Even under lock and key, it tends to walk away.

It's a private club. I don't think they would mind if we didn't meet there (the pack does not anyways) but its convincing current leaders they should....

Is the alcohol locked up or otherwise not accessible to the scouts?

 

Yes?  I'd meet at the club.

Checking into that, but I am leaning toward its not....

Both the Pack and Troop share the same CO, a local sportsman club. We have a great relationship with them, they are financially supportive.

The pack meets at church in town. The church hall has a better layout for us as a pack. The troop meets at the club, which has a bar. They meet in the room with the bar, but I do not believe the bar is open at the time of the troop meetings. It is stocked with alcohol in plain view.

Thoughts? It this ok? I feel like its a fine line. 

I was leaning toward this, thanks for confirming.

I feel bad doing it this way, but you can only do so much.

I suppose I have to tell both parents that this is how it is, let me know what you do, and I will mark it down and but the appropriate awards.

We have a small pack. Currently one Webelos I and one Bear, 6 wolves, 3 tigers, 5 Lions.

The Web I was meeting with the Web II, until they crossed over. The Bear was meeting with Wolf Den. Bear is really into wrestling, and tournaments are on the weekends, usually when we have den meetings.  He came to a few in Sept and Oct, and just made it to the last one we had today. Didn't see him Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb as far as den meetings go.

His parents have been able to work with him and get his book signed off, and he had completed everything needed. If we did a project, he did it at home. I have no reason to think his parents are just "rubber stamping" his requirements. I know them personally and are trustworthy and good people.

In his case, would you award him his rank? And I think this will happen next year as well.

Then the Web I kid. Not sure what to do about him either. I don't have a problem with him meeting with us on the Den level, but I am not going to do Webelos stuff with Wolves.

Parents of these two boys are generally supportive, want their kids to be in scouts, etc....  But realistically I can't help my wife with the Wolf Den (1 of my sons) with the Lion Den (other son), get the new Lions den off the ground come this fall, and run the pack AND run a Webelos program for the two boys who have no den. I have other parents helping out, but I have to draw the line somewhere on what i can do before I am burned out. 

Web I dad was a den leader for one round and that crashed spectacularly. Bear parents have 7 kids, so....... no. 

OK and update to where my unit is in this process...

We decided to start a FG troop (a group of parents that are associated with the pack) We are working on getting the CO lined up. We are going to have FG meetings separate from the pack, but join up for most pack events (pack meetings, etc...) Den meetings would not be combined. I think that this is a better option.

Other than den meeting environment, the program we offer would be pretty much co-ed

It's ok to be crazy, and right. Most of us are.

I went through something similar recently.  Cubmaster did, well, nothing. Figurehead in name only. I'm not sure who was running things honestly.

But it sounds like you have the boys and the unit's best interests at heart. And sometimes that's all you need. Those are some of the best qualities that a leader needs. 

As quazse mentioned, there is a script to this show. Use it. It helps tremendously. The BSA didn't spend $$$ on program materials for something that is not tested and does not work. And if you have not taken the CM training online, do it. 

 

So, to say the GS/Venturing are the same quality as the Boy Scout program is like going into a hotel and being given the option to have a room with a bed, or a room with a pile of rocks.  Yes, I'm sure there are some areas where GS and Venturing are amazing and active and well executed, but that is not the case for many youth.  And no girl who would enjoy the BS program would mind being called a BOY Scout.  Just like women don't get offended if they join the military and get called a soldier, even though that always implies a male (just ask my mother the veteran, who can't wear a veteran hat without being asked if her husband/father served!).  When you love a program and you believe in what you're working towards, being called a Boy is not the issue they're concerned with.

I would have quoted your whole post, but the above will do. 

This is the same information I get from parents of girls who want to join cub scouting. It happens all the time. It's not the same, just not.

And I don't think anyone who wants a female in a traditional BSA program wants to change it, on the contrary they want their child in that program just the way it is. Am I admitting there would be changes because of female youth in a CS program? Yeah, probably. 

Just my $.02

So one of the things I've noticed right off the bat... is seeing the proliferation of handheld video games by the Webelos and AOL scouts (and some of their younger siblings in the other dens) at Pack meetings.  For me, this is not only disrespectful to the other dens, it's a clear sign the older boys are bored.  Anyone run into  this in their units and have some tips on weaning that out?  Granted the AOLs will age out and cross over, but I really want to nip this in the bud but without dropping some kind of ban hammer on them.  That's only going to breed resentment.  Thoughts? 

Nope, I would not allow that. And its never happened, because the boys are always involved in something at a pack meetings. They are fun, engaging, and they always take something away from them. 

That being said, I would drop the hammer and ban them.

Can you go it alone, and just INVITE the troop?  Maybe hand pick some boys to have tasks (colorguard, readers, etc?)

Reach out to the district and council? They can provide help with a ceremony, fill in where a SM should.

IMHO I would just write the troop leadership out of the picture. Go it alone. I am sure you will get boys from the troop to show if they are invited with an invitation OUTSIDE of the troop environment. Nobody can stop them from attending.

About the pilot program: it is an Explorer Club and part of "Learning for Life". This seems to be the avenue BSA takes to test new programs. I'm pretty sure the Lions went this way, and I think that's also how Stem Scouts is working.

 

Our program was planned using the Boy Scouts curriculum and incorporating elements from Venturing. We've had some older Venture scouts assisting and mentoring. In the beginning, things were more scout led with the older Ventures leading the younger Explorers. Now, they have mostly moved on to college. Evidently, there are 5 new units in the big city to our north that have taken off- maybe from what we started. Not sure if they're using the program planning we developed or not. It was shared with our district exec. so he may have shared it on up the line.

 

 

 

 

Ok so you used Boy Scout program in LFL then, and that was acceptable. Got it.

 My girls are also part of coed BSA programs, one being a pilot program based on Venturing but for middle school ages (which I am associate advisor for). We have a lot of interest in my district for trying something similar for Cub ages. 

I would like to know more about that too. PM me if you can!

You briefly mentioned not wanting to go the Girl Scout route. Why is that?

It appeared that the FG program was going to be more flexible, and avoid the whole cookie mess which we are not into getting involved in. 

Pete said that the FS girls would have a different CO.

 

The Cub Scout unit's CO might have insurance to cover the girls at meetings, as visitors, but I doubt that it would apply to any outings conducted off the CO's property.

At the moment, pack meetings are NOT at our CO facility, it's not big enough or conducive for what we need to do. We utilize a local church hall for our pack meetings, they have welcomed us with open arms and have been very supportive.

That being said, the CO for our FG troop would be the church that the pack already meets at.......

I enjoy the CO for the pack (and troop) as they have been VERY financially supportive of both units.

Stosh,

I respect your opinion, and generally agree with most of what you say on this forum.

But saying I'm stupid, really?

A scout is courteous..... moving on....

I am sorry to say this, Pete, but my impression is that you are putting most of your time and attention on the little guys and neglecting the Webelos.

 

You need to consider how this will effect the Webelos.

At the moment, my pack does not have any webelos. 1 bear who does not show up much, 6 wolves, 3 tigers and 5 lions. I realize it sounds very small, and it is, but its up from what it was. This February the unit would have folded when the Web II crossed over. Myself and the few other parents worked hard to recruit and develop a good program.

There is a bit of a selfish factor involved here. I have two daughters, 5 and 3. CC has one daughter, 5. DL has one daugher, 5. There are a few other parents who have daughters too that are younger than the sons.... We are all looking for a decent program, do not want to go the GS route, and use a program we know works and that the kids enjoy.