Back Pack

When scouting goes with a double breasted white uniform shirt, we could have problems. 

But the point you guys are making was that the necker was the single greatest identifier of someone being a scout. I just showed that's not the only group of people who wear them.

...or a chef...

Just because a boy wears a Cubs cap or a Twins cap or a Brewers cap, doesn't make him a baseball player. 

 

Even if the boy doesn't have a $75 full uniform, all he need do is put on a necker and people will think he's a scout.  The branding is that strong.

...or a chef...

 

http://www.nisbets.co.uk/asset/en/prodimage/xlarge/a011-neckerchief-blue_01.jpg

Neckers belong with knee socks and garters. Campaign hats for all? Wool uniforms?

 

Neckers were add on to the original uniform. Then there's how neckers are worn? All rolled up like a bandana or draped like we do in the US?

How does one get black balled from district. Please PM me with instructions so I can get off their mailing list.

How often do you run into scouts from other countries? Might be just me, but I have yet to meet one myself.

 

We see folks from California all the time. Does that count?

Help the troop. Kids with involved parents have a better chance of making Eagle and staying in.

If you lay things out for the pack as well and you've done here, and they don't understand and buy in, then I don't know what else you could do.

 

Clearly you belong in the role. Good luck.

Out Philmont ranger would not let anyone camp outside the established Bearmuda Triangle.

And yet I have seen some spectacular 13 - 14 year old First Class Scouts that do a better of of reflecting the principles of Scouting than do those at the Eagle rank.  I often wonder if it is really the rank that makes the Scout.

Nope it doesn't. Eagle doesn't guarantee anything. It's the person not the rank.

 

We used to have a saying in the military, "Salute the rank not the man".

BSA wants their employees to take training on checkpoint data security and privacy? Sounds fishy to me, if they mean BSA as in Boy Scouts. Now BSA Data Solutions? That's another story.

 

The course title is about a security system for computer networks call Checkpoint. Highly unlikely you'd be asked to take that. Highly unlikely anyone at Council or national would take that unless they are a network or systems engineer.

Most Eagles I've seen making it by 16 have "Eagled out". Never seen one make it by 13-14 and stick around.

Here's a quick update. In the last 2 nights he's visited both troops once again and gotten to see there meetings first hand. Two of his friends whom were undecided have chosen to join the troop that is a town over and he's decided to go with them. I asked him what he liked and said that they seemed more organized and had more fun.

Problem solved. Boy solved.

Except from any venturer anywhere.

So changing Boy Scouts is the answer?

 

How long would bsa even keep Venturing if Boy Scouts went coed? Could time that with an egg timer.

This is an interesting discussion thread, and one where many commenters have no concept of what Girl Scouting is/does. 

 

I get very tired of the argument that "girls already have Girl Scouts, it's just as good!"  NO, it's not.  Take it from a former scout, a leader, and a mother of a Girl Scout - their program has been utter garbage since their last overhaul about 6 years ago, and that's the way their HQ likes it.  Girls spend up to 9 months of their year doing nothing but fixating on selling products for the Girl Scout machine (who makes billions off of the girls labor, then acts like they're too broke to invest in any local programming for the girls).  As a leader, make no mistake, GS wants product sales to be all life consuming, and it's become one step shy of a pyramid scheme like Pampered Chef.  GS are closing camps left and right, but it's not because girls don't want to camp, as some have suggested on here (my own daughter camps in our private woods every chance she's allowed).  Girl in Girl Scouts aren't camping because families can't afford to participate when the financial aid rates that GS offers are still twice the cost of a full-priced week at BS camp - and girls don't even get to earn any badges or awards at most camps! 

Not to mention the lack of accountability for the girls and lack of respect from their parents.  You could never have ranks in GS because parents would stomp their feet and cry out that it's not fair how their daughter does no work, never shows up, and doesn't get the same awards as everyone else.  I can't tell you how many times parents have called the council on me to complain about just that problem!  You may see problem parents in Boy Scouts too, I have no doubt there, but you have no idea how much more respectful women tend to be towards male leaders over female ones.  And, the entire reason I became a leader is because the first troop my daughter joined had tons of money vanish (in the 5-digit range) and when I went with others to complain to council, they looked at us and said "after we get our money, it's none of our business what happens to the girl's portion!"  It's a ludicrisly bad program, with staff that has no clue or care about the girls they're supposedly working for, and it's been re-tooled to only cater to kids in metropolitan areas.  GS doesn't even pretend to care about anyone else, which is likely why GS keeps complaining about hemorraging members, because it's largely an arts and crafts mini-daycare these days.  They do not truly develop leadership programs, and most girls have to be Juliettes (ie non-troop members) by the time they're in 6th grade, because there is so little interest in the program as girls get older/more unhappy with their lack of options.  So, in short, Girl Scouts is NOT the same as Boy Scouts!

And, to users like Back Pack, who think Venturing is just the same as Boy Scouts, again, you are so very mistaken.  First, a female has to be 14 to join Venturing, whereas a Boy Scout can technically start at 10 1/2.  So Venturing is only open to girls who are roughly high school aged, meanwhile younger girls have a great, if not greater, interest in scouting too.  Second, you cannot earn merit badges or Boy Scout rank in Venturing, which, whether you want to admit it or not, are very respected things to earn - to the point that the military will give you an automatic promotion if you have Eagle Rank.  Third, I live in a highly active state for BSA, you can't go down the block without tripping over a troop, and, yet, with all that support for scouting here, the Venturing units exist on paper only.  They don't meet, they don't have activities, and every Crew leader I've met tells me the same thing - they're ready and willing to have their Crew be amazing, but there are too many competitors for time, money, etc to get the high school aged kids active. 

So, to say the GS/Venturing are the same quality as the Boy Scout program is like going into a hotel and being given the option to have a room with a bed, or a room with a pile of rocks.  Yes, I'm sure there are some areas where GS and Venturing are amazing and active and well executed, but that is not the case for many youth.  And no girl who would enjoy the BS program would mind being called a BOY Scout.  Just like women don't get offended if they join the military and get called a soldier, even though that always implies a male (just ask my mother the veteran, who can't wear a veteran hat without being asked if her husband/father served!).  When you love a program and you believe in what you're working towards, being called a Boy is not the issue they're concerned with.

But see? You still miss the point:

 

- Change VENTURING to allow girls to join at 11.

- Revamp the VENTURING program to allow MB-like activities.

- Have BSA help folks like you invest your time building strong VENTURING crews.

 

You see? I'd like my kid to get things they can't have too? Cheap student loans would be nice. But I don't tear down an entire organization to get my way.

 

If people like you put your energy into BUILDING UP something -- say a cool new Venturing program that would give girls most of what you say, then you'd have TONS of support. But you'll continue to get opposition from "people like me" when all you do is advocate for tearing something down. Be a builder not a demolisher.

Never seen one. All have been 16+.

Do your Den. Pack is once a month. When done leave.

Seems to me a tree in the woods and a 105F outhouse are two totally different scenic and olfactory experiences. Hardly a decent comparison.

We use REI two man tents. They are inexpensive and last a long time. Haven't replaced ours in 7 years and they are in great condition.

@@The Latin Scot, if you mean what @Col. Flag wrote he did say in his experience.

 

I have to say my experience mirrors the good Colonel. Scouts under 15 were never on par skillwise to those who were older. Not generalizing, just my experience. Yours may vary.

They can change the name. In fact they almost certainly would if they go co-ed.

 

This keeps coming up and it's ridiculous. The name of an organization is not an contract by which the organization is bound for eternity. Organizations change names all the time, and plenty of other scouting organizations made exactly that kind of change to go co-ed. Let's stop pretending that the name should have any bearing on the discussion of whether or not to allow girls.

 

A name change is different than changing the program which you state won't happen. It's a boys program. Adding girls changes the program. Can't get any more fundamental than that.

 

But why go coed. What's Boy Scouts got that Venturing doesn't?

There are multiple scouting organizations in the US today. So in this regard, what the charter set out to do isn't really even in effect anymore.

 

But only one affiliated with the world organization.

With the "gay issue", it was more than just a "minority opinion."  It was actually a majority opinion in parts of the country, including the Northeast.  The SE of my council was in favor of the change (both for youth and adults) and I suspect the same was true for the surrounding councils.  I think the BSA did not want to become the "Boy Scouts of Parts of America."   One of the councils next door to ours had already gone under financially.  The units (what was left of them) were absorbed by the neighboring councils, but that can only happen so many times before there are no councils next door to absorb the units.

It was a minority opinion among polled members. It was a majority opinion among council that voted for the change.

 

Funny because it's like the electoral college in that sense. The majority wanted no change but a bear majority of those who were in charge of representing their members wanted the change. Had it been a memebership referendum it would have failed.

They want to tear down something that they want to join? I don't think that's their motivation.

That's the point. They CAN'T join it because it's not for them. They don't want to join the group that IS for them, so they want to force open a place they're not wanted to make a point.

 

If simply attaining the highest rank in their gender's scouting movement was their motivation, they would go for it. But that's not their motivation. It's to tear down what they can't have. Make no mistake, forcing open an all boy organization -- when there's a perfectly goo all girl option AND perfectly goo coed option -- is tearing down Boy Scouts.

Our society has changed as far as gay/transgender individuals. In 1950 an organization could ignore that issue. By 1990, it couldn't. These things had to be dealt with.

Going back to what BSA was doing in p, say, 1955 isn't possible. They can do what they did then- but cultural changes have made it so that it wouldn't be the same program.

Sorry but bsa COULD have ignored the gay and TG issue. Nothing was compelling them do change other than a minority opinion that change was "required".

I will never get why these people can't just find other organizations to join instead of insisting on tearing down the foundations of organizations like the BOY Scouts of America. But, whatever. At least I know that my chartered organization is extremely firm on this issue, so I don't have to worry about girls trying to get into my pack any time soon. Yeesh.

Hate. It's simple. They want to tear down those establishments they see as entitled.