Back Pack

At RT this week this was the topic....and just how long it will be before we are coed.

Scouting is down over 4000 scouts in my District alone.

They're down nationally too when you look at the revised stats from the annual report.

Wow. Just wow. If you are sure that's not what he meant and you aren't going to comment on it further, why bother with the post?

 

What I am pretty sure he meant was he was challenging the asserton that we should embrace all that God creates. Does that make sense?

But maybe since you don't believe in the concept of God and Satan, it's beyond comprehension. Or maybe it's just pot stirring.

 

Pot-stirring. It's the passive-aggressive way of throwing mud without looking like you are.

But he clearly missed the inference of Satan's role in all of this.

Our troop is doing elections next month.  We have several eligible scouts, and I expect a few will be elected.  We have a couple of adults that are eligible (camping-wise); who may be good candidates; good Scouters that would be an asset to the Lodge.

 

My question is, are adult candidates typically "asked" if they would be interested?  Or do troop committees typically nominate someone without their prior knowledge?

Our unit allows the ASMs to elect from the eligible adults, similar to how the boys do it. Their camping nights and service hours are made known so scouters can see the level of participation. We ask the candidates before we do this to make sure they want this honor.

I know other units that either have just the SM decide, one let's the unit's OA youth decide, another let's the troop committee decide. I don't think I've ever seen any rules on how it should be done, but I could be wrong.

Did I just read that someone wrote bsa had no policy against transgender youth? I believe it was written in the name of the organization one was joining. It's pretty evident. Next we are going to claim the NFL governs baseball or Chipote does Italian food.

Not sure how legit this is but here's a pack that claims to be coed.

http://www.troopcrew56.org/cubs/

Just look at the BSA's own polling on the issue:

 http://web.archive.org/web/20160415130812/http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/MembershipStandards/Resolution/Summary.aspx

 

It includes data like:

 

• A majority of Boy Scouts and Venturers oppose allowing chartered organizations to follow their own beliefs if that means there will be different standards from one organization to the next.
• According to a majority of current Boy Scouts and Venturers, the current policy does not represent a core value of Scouting.

and for scout parents:

• The research finds a significant shift in attitudes regarding the BSA policy on homosexuality.
• Three years ago, parents supported the current BSA policy by a wide margin—58 percent to 29 percent. Today, parents oppose the policy by a 45 percent to 42 percent margin.
• Three years ago, 57 percent of parents of current Scouts supported the policy. Today, only 48 percent of parents of current Scouts support the policy.

and for adult scouters:

• Respondents support the current policy by a 61 percent to 34 percent margin.
• Support for the current policy is higher at different program and volunteer levels in the organization:

• 50 percent of Cub Scout parents support it; 45 percent of Cub Scout parents oppose.
• 61 percent of Boy Scout parents support it.
• 62 percent of unit leaders support it.
• 64 percent of council and district volunteers support it.
• 72 percent of chartered organizations support it.

All of which adds up to "substantial support" for both sides.

What you quoted were the focus groups. Those are small groups of selected people. What you failed to quote was the much LARGER membership survey where MEMBERS actually overwhelmingly were AGAINST the change.

Always convenient to post the stats that support you position withou noting the very small group of people invoked.

What bsa policy allows an SM to ban elections totally. I'd like to see that in writing.

Not only that, the adults aren't supposed to be the leaders in a properly run troop.

True. But in this instance, if an SM does not want to recommend anyone that's one time an adult can with in the rules derail a program. Of course he's going to have to explain why.

And leaving a troop that helped you when you needed it IS Scoutlike? Really?

Whether it is or isn't effecting membership numbers is separate from the idea that it was a change that didn't have significant support within the BSA. It did have significant support. Whether it was a good idea or not is a different argument.

Didn't the number of members decrease more since 2013? Happenstance?

And what's the source for the assertion there was "significant support" for this change within BSA? I recall a member survey that said no. It was Council muckety mucks that made the changes. That's not the members.

One would think in the FAQ that would be question number one. It's the one I hear most often in my Council.

ROFL...I cannot imagine BSA using technology to link up anyone for this. They have a hard enough time making sure their members' data gets entered in to the recharter system (correctly) before June. I can only imagine the chaos this will be if BSA is involved.

Your whole post is excellent - I just picked this out because this is one of the big things bothering me (the other YPT issues).  WHAT THE CRAP IS WRONG WITH THE GIRL SCOUTS?????  They go camping, etc. and every time I speak with a Girl Scout leader I walk away impressed!  The GS is a great organization!!!!  So I guess - why would the BSA need to start a parallel org for girls ... let alone why does the BSA need to change to include girls???  

 

Money and memebership. That's why. By all accounts they've been losing both for years if not decades. They might see it as the only way to survive.

I'm not sure how this decision stops the BSA from meeting your needs. Perhaps you can explain it to Fred. The quips are witty, but they don't help anybody understand your perspective.

I thought his posts have been pretty clear. He's asexual questions that haven't been answered. If you go back and read the exchange I could follow him fine, it's Fred who has dodged the questions.

When you decide to serve a very small minority and alienate a much larger population (not saying all of the existing membership, but one certainly much larger than the new desired target), how is that 'serving the nation'? 

How is alienating far more potential member families and failing to reach more of our youth a positive way to 'serve the nation'?

How does declining membership, declining operating funds, new rounds of ridicule, and a diluted brand and message better 'serve the nation'?

 

Seriously. These are not rhetorical questions. These are the issues the BSA now has to face. And because of that,we, the locals, the volunteers, the believers, will have to deal with the eventual consequences. That or walk away.

Without effective and comitted volunteers to run and deliver the program, how is that 'serving the nation'?

This is the point.

Scouting has not thrived since these changes. They are no receiving the ground swell if new members many suggested might join after gays were let in. The corporate donations have not increased as many suggested would. In fact, Scouting continues to lose members and charter orgs at an increased rate. Donations are flat. In my Council many units have told their FOS teams to stay home and not bother to reach out. Units simply don't want to donate anymore. They are keeping their own money and doing their own thing. So the "change" in BSA culture has not had a positive membership or financial benefit yet. Still waiting to see this benefit happen. Doubt it will.

@@Sentinel947, I have spoken with several scouted and parents that will do the same; pull back from national, council and district and do their own thing. We had two leaders step back from the unit. I am personally stopping any work with anyone above the unit level.

The program we pay for is administered at the local level. The less we let National's politics enter into our every day Scouting activities the better. I can understand someone wanting to make a statement about National's policies, but I doubt these two individuals would EVER be affected by this membership change. How many TG kids do you think there are? Let's get real.

Well the one family get they could no longer be a part of an organization that allowed their founding principles (a "safe place" for boys) to be eroded. From a religious perspective it did conflicted with their beliefs. If someone objects to something on these grounds, say supporting illegal aliens, they have every right to do so. Would you tell them to "get real" and live with the law rather than their deeply held beliefs?

Odd how the SJWs are building "safe spaces" all over the nation in colleges but won't allow heterosexual boys their own safe space.

As for it not affecting them, how about summer camp? Council camps? High adventure base? Does the probability of running to this situation matter?

Wouldn't this fall under the "once a uniform, always a uniform" standard?

I've seen Silver [insert mammal here] all over Council wearing fifty different patches from the 80s to now. Haven't seen the uniform police get them yet. Heck, they have other stuff that doesn't belong on their uniform.

As long as you belong to that Council and it's an official patch I'd think you're legal.

A bit floored. Got a call from two parents tonight. Pulled their kids. They're gone.

I guess I'm really not floored. It's to be expected.

Having read through this, the crux of the posts are a variation of "SHE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED" (emphasis is mine).

Now, if this is a trensgender boy, having lived as a "boy", identifying as a "boy", acting dressing and playing like a "boy" are you even going to know who this is?

that is the point of this.  Right now we are excluding boys who want to be in Scouts because their birth certificate does not match their gender identity.  Aren't we in this to help the boys be boys. That is what this is allowing, that boy, who happens to have "wrong" genitalia, to be included with his friends in a fun character building program.

Seems that is the Courteous thing to do. Kind, Friendly and Brave apply too.

I wonder where the talk of being Kind, Courteous, Helpful, etc., is when we are trying to maintain the organization for boys that we've always had. Seems those wanting us to change want *us* to exhibit these qualities, but aren't willing to give the. In return...until you've gotten what you want. Very tolerant indeed.

I don't post much and normally stay away from religion and politics for obvious reasons. You'll never convince someone to change or even see your side. My brother is an ardent liberal and we've talked for decades and neither of us are switching any time soon.

That said, I wonder how many people who support gender changing and allowing this girl, er, boy in to scouts would similarly support me changing from a white male to a black male so I can get in to college easier? I mean it cuts both ways. If I "feel" more black than white, can I change and get recognized by everyone as being black?

I'll add these questions which we get every year...

• Year Founded?
• Charter Organization?
• Troop Meetings: Time, Location, Frequency?
• BSA Quality Unit?
• Dues?
• Join Fee?
• Reimbursement For Gas For Adult Driving?
• Summer Camp Costs, Locations?
• High Adventure Costs, Locations?
• Troop Size?
• Number Of Active Scouts?
• How Many Scouts Attend Weekly Meetings?
• How Does Your Troop Implement A Boy-Led Scouting Program?
• What Is The “Patrol Method†And How Does Your Troop Implement It?
• How Many ASMs?
• Age Breakdown Of Active Scouts?
• How Many Eagle Scouts Overall? In The Past Few Years?
• Avg Age Of Eagle Scout?
• How Are The Patrols Organized?
• Who Leads The Troop Meetings?
• Use Troop Meeting Agendas?
• Service Projects?
• How Is Rank Advancement Managed?
• How Are Family Communications Handled?
• How Is The Troop Lead? What Role Do The Boys Play In Planning Events And Activities?
• How Are Leadership Positions Selected?
• Is There Leadership Training For The Scouts?
• How Are Activities Planned?
• How Is The Troop Leadership Managed?
• What Camping Has The Troop Done In The Past? What Is Planned?
• Most Popular Camp Out?
• High Adventure Trips Past/Future?
• Fundraising?
• What Training Is Expected Of Parents?
• What Training Is Expected Of Leaders?
• What Equipment Is Provided By The Troop?
• Uniforms Required?
• District/Council Events?
• How Are Conflicts Handled Between Scouting And Other Activities?
• Women Involved In The Troop?

What do y'all do about controlling the growth of your troop?  Ours is at 85 and seems to grow and grow by 20 each year?  At some point it seems that the troop will get too big to run well.

We don't have the quota problem. Just too few Scouts to choose from.

I have friends in other parts of the country that have the luxury of imposing limits on crossovers. Some manage it well. Others have had a backlash against them in later years following imposing a limit. Word got out that they have a policy which limits crossovers, so people began to stay away. They had to fight hard to recruit folks for nearly 5 years.

This unit combated this issue by doing their recruiting well in advance. They reached out to units when they were Bears and Web 1s. These kids knew the troop and the troop knew them. They knew by the Web 2 year which kids were coming over and which weren't. Their recruiting became easier and less of a hassle. It did require greater outreach and maintenance of their "feeder" program, but in the end it was worth it. They didn't have to fight the other units for the "left over" scouts.

The other units still have not figured out why this troop "doesn't have to recruit".  

This place confuses me. Did we really just spend a few pages talking about whether we could or couldn't use the term special snowflake? I thought the use was pretty clear. Is is one of those overly politically correct forums?

I am new here so forgive my naivety, but how does 2-3 young women dressed in normal shorts, shirts and jackets take away a parent's ability to talk about sex with their son? There was nothing sexually suggestive about what the women wore so the topic of sex should not even come up, should it? But you definitely end up having discussions about sex after allowing gays in to scouting. Any boy that didn't know about gays at that point certainly had that conversation after BSA made the change in membership. I guess I don't understand what all the chatter is about.