vumbi

Thanks, I like to keep track of pots and kettles.

OK, then same question to you Stosh: have you always done absolutely everything absolutely by the book? Yes? No?

So Krampus, have you always done absolutely everything absolutely by the book? Yes? No?

As a matter of fact, you yourself advocated for flexibility on 5 October this year in regard to 'special needs' boys.

"Posted 05 October 2015 - 10:36 AM

@Exibar, Section 10.2.0.0 (Advancement Flexibility Allowed) in the GTA spells it out. Just like everything we do in Scouting we should have the boy strive to reach beyond his grasp. Our unit usually meets with the parents to determine how we are going to proceed for each rank. We set goals and boundaries, identify how we will evaluate the scout and move forward. We remain flexible."

Do you only apply this flexibility to the scouts whom in your judgement you feel like you need to apply it? Or to none of them?

That article shows a truly labyrinthine process. Is all that really necessary? Seems like an awful lot of attention at the national level by people who don't know the boy, the family, the community, and weren't present for any of the advancement work or the EBOR for that matter. Does it really make sense for national to be so involved? What do they really add to the process that hasn't already been done by the council or local level? Again, is all that really necessary?

P.S. what would be wrong with the date of 'making' Eagle being the same as 'becoming Eagle'? Does this really have to be so confusing?

Try this: http://www.practicalprimitive.com/ashcakes.html

Ash cakes can be made using many different recipes and is just doesn't get more 'campfire' than that.

That is indeed good news. I hope that the Council leadership will now do everyone the favor of resigning en masse.

It's okay. They get to hear me making breakfast and drinking coffee at 6am with the other adults in our troop. They get the message pretty quickly.

I like the way Krampus thinks . I do the same thing and somehow manage to drop piles of pots in the process. But I try to cheer myself up when this happens by singing.

As for the pros, I'm not sure what triggers the vitriol toward pros and I sure hope the pros who decided to join the campfire don't feel like everyone feels the same on this topic. I have never met anyone from HQ in Irving. I wouldn't know them from Adam's dog. But I have met the folks from the council on down. Some of them are very helpful when it comes to procedure and documentation. Yes there are a few who are basically on the same intellectual level as a really intelligent bucket of coal. But most have been congenial and my only surprise (and I guess it shouldn't have been a surprise) was when it was the volunteers who actually knew scoutcraft skills well, not the pros. So now I know who the REAL 'go to' people are if I have questions about real scouting. As for the organizational/management stuff, I'm thankfully clueless about that stuff, and unapologetic too.

However, someone (was it Cyclops?) mentioned something about local importance or something like that and I agree with that. BSA is not a cult (at least I think it's not supposed to be) built around RBP - someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this so I can run away screaming.

BSA is basically a business that seems to have trouble identifying their product and therefore they are inept at selling it. If local units have found the right 'combination' to unlock the program, I think they're right to feel successful and perhaps a little independent. Good for them.

First of all, thanks to whomever moved this out of Issues and Politics. Now I can interact with the thread.

Welcome to the forums. I can sympathize a little bit with the first post. This pack had some problems (not as bad as the first post described) and it took a little while with 'turnover' of leaders (as others have pointed out) but we managed to get things into pretty good shape.

The fact that the program has changed shows that there is some flexibility and I see no reason to clamp down on the pack to make sure it's 'by the book'. If the boys are having a good time and the families see the value then you're doing something right.

I will 'second' the post by NJCubscouter and say that there is good advice given so far and from lots of different perspectives. Just weigh them in light of your own needs and 'Do Your Best'. The cubs are always a source of joy, so take some time to enjoy them.

JoeBob, I can't offer a solution because I don't see a problem. This unit and those nearby are mostly doing well. Quality is not in question and numbers have been stable for years. Or maybe I just can't tell when the sky is falling, lol.

Stosh, you've been at this for 40 years and are in a position of responsibility and your units are still struggling. You are correct, therefore, to seek solutions from other persons because that guy staring at you in the mirror evidently doesn't have a clue for a solution.

Cyclops, I clean things up (check my avatar). It's what I do and I don't mind. I like to get paid for it though. In cases like Stosh, I don't know enough about his situation to begin to know how to clean up his messes. They've been 40 years in the making and are probably beyond my ability.

After watching things over the past 65 years. I have a pretty good idea of how things work.  Ford, Chevy and Chrysler were pretty much the only cars on the road.  Detroit ruled the world.  Scouting was in its heyday.   In my college finance class, it was noted that GM was too big to fail.

 

The world changed, but the people didn't.  People still drive cars, more cars than back in the 1960's.... Kids still are involved in youth programs.

 

What makes Toyota better than GM?  What makes Honda better than Ford?  What makes soccer better than Scouts?

 

Once one starts asking the right questions, they will start getting the right answers.  Until then, I hope your Mustang keeps running another year.  After all, Ford set the pace with that model in 1964, it's still around, never went away and one sees a ton of them on the road.  What are they doing that GM and Chrysler aren't. 

 

So maybe the sky is falling, but don't worry, with one's head in the sand, they will never notice.  I have studied business, marketing, and been involved with youth for 45 years.  I have a fairly good perspective from where I stand.  How's about Chamberlain's perspective?

LOL, none of which answered the question of whether the decline might have happened no matter what.

And none of that offered even a hint of what your solution might be.

But going with that absurd comparison of BSA to Ford Motor Company, there are precious few 1964 Mustangs on the highway today and precious little similarity between that Falcon-based version and the things that bear the name today. I also observe that there has been a huge decline in numbers of Mustangs sold over the years as well, about 12% of what sold in 1966.

No, the content of the observation is what counts to me. I am glad to attribute the thought to the author if I can but most persons are capable of producing astute observations from time to time. And I am glad to listen to them or read them when they occur. It doesn't matter even if the thought is from someone whose identity has become lost to time.

I've enjoyed Texas BBQ before, in the hill country around Southwest Texas State. Also in the San Antonio area and most recently in Abilene. It's all good. One thing I've noticed traveling around is that everyone, EVERYONE, thinks their barbecue (BBQ for Krampus) is better than everyone elses, or at least that it is unique.

In this respect, the topic of barbecue (BBQ) is almost like discussing someone's religious beliefs. There's really no point in trying to convince anyone. Each of us must sample it and decide for ourselves if we like it or if it's really 'better' in some way. And we can't expect others to have the same reaction or even agree. But if they DO agree, we can gather in reverence toward whatever we call the stuff that we slow cook, grill, smoke, chop, slice, pull, slather with sauce, or however we prepare it. And then we all fall in to silent (and shared) reverence as we consume our objects of culinary worship.

As far as I know we've never had scout 'accounts'. I'm not sure why anyone would have these things for that matter. It seems like a needless source of confusion and potential conflict.

We go by the first grade 'rule'. I believe the way to interpret this is that any 1st grader regardless of age may join cub scouts. But even if they're not in1st grade for some reason, if they're 7 years old they may join cub scouts anyway.

You left out vinegar based and molasses based, lol. And some of the best ribs I've ever had (and I've had my share) were at The Rib Pit in Cincinnati, OH years ago. There's pretty fair barbecue in AL, MS, and LA as well.

My biggest disappointment: Florida. What a 'hole'...when it comes to barbecue. Now if we're smoking fish, that's another matter. Charlotte Harbor smoked mullet is about as good as it gets.

Of course you can smoke a carp if you want, for that matter. You have to roll it up in a newspaper and suck real hard.

'Barbecue' can also be a verb, the process of producing barbecue. It is one of those wonderful all-purpose terms: noun, verb, adjective, product. [We went to the barbecue to watch them barbecue a goat and it turned out be some of the tastiest barbecued goat barbecue ever]

As for the hot dogs, (frankfurters, I mean, not literally hot 'dogs') Aaron's are pretty good too and they answer to that same high call. But I will always, always defer to those delectable, tender, tasty ribs.

I've seen it. I've made the complaints. I've waited for improvements. And I've concluded that the only thing I really have control over is how conscientious I am when I work with a boy on the merit badge that I'm the counselor for. I can start the road to improvement by making sure I get it right first.

That is NOT Barbecue!!

 

That brisket stuff is smoked beef.  It's not bad, but it's not Que.  If it has BBQ in the name, it has to start with a curly tail.

Man, I'm sure not going to let this guy near my dog!

I'm with blw2. It's food. Sauce. It could be road kill porcupine but as long as it's been grilled and slathered with sauce, maybe even flavored with some hickory smoke, the food is called barbecue.

My heart goes out to the families of victims in the Oregon college shooting. A song keeps playing in my head: "When will they ever learn...."

As seems to be the case, considering the lack of response to Sandy Hook, the answer to the question in that song is, sadly, 'never'.

The concept and execution of this game saddened and upset me when I commenced WB about a year ago.  The same holds true today.  In fact it makes me think we need to completely reconsider the purpose of WB, although I will comment principally on the game that is this thread's intended topic.

 

For background:  I am approaching 30 total years of youth and adult Scout service, completed Sea Badge 20 years ago, and recently retired from the military.  So this is not my first rodeo.  

 

Regarding the game:  I think it is not worth the risk to administer what amounts to a psychological experiment run by people who generally don't have the expertise to deal with or properly debrief the thorny issues that participants in this forum indicate arise not infrequently during the course of this game. The syllabus that I was able to find online said that some participants would sink to the depths of despair.  

 

What makes BSA think it's a good idea to create a situation that they predict will do that, and what makes them think that all of their many trainers will uniformly be equipped to manage that very negative outcome?  

 

Beyond the intended self-scrutiny, at least in the instance of my class, our staff believed that all groups had to go through Tuckman's Form-Storm-Norm-Perform stages of group development--and that "The Game of Life" would force us through an accelerated storm phase.  And, further, that all patrols required equal storming pressure.  A quick look at references on this theory reveals that the storm phase is supposed to be closely managed by a knowledgeable team leader, and they counsel caution and team support--and even suggest using part of the form phase to establish group values or ground rules and to warn the group that storming is a natural stage in group maturation and likely to be encountered.

 

In my class, our gameshow host acted as if he were a drill instructor:  yelling the rules, aggressively advancing on people selectively and shouting them down--once when he was yelling at someone near me, he was shouting with such force that I was hit with his flying saliva.  I understood exactly what was going on, and my team and I behaved cooperatively at every turn.  Yet, I found it so repugnant that they were setting up some of our more enthusiastic classmates to lie, that I walked out of the game.

 

So, you see that for me, my "depths of despair" moment did not come upon realizing that under pressure I can exhibit duplicitous behavior, rather its basis was that I realized that BSA in general--and our staff in particular--believe that many of the Scouters who come to WB will lie and stab other people in the back at the drop of a hat.  The net result is that I, with a heretofore lifelong love of Scouting, have developed a strong distrust of the BSA training system from national all the way to my council and district.  

 

Further, relationships among some people in my district and council--the kind of people who care enough about Scouting to go to WB, attend roundtables, run Cub Scout day camps, etc.--are now permanently marred because a few people don't know if they can ever again fully trust a few others.

 

As to the rest of the course:

• My patrol mates are awesome.
• There were a few new games that were fun.
• The guy who played B-P at our campfire was awesome.
• The first half of the course with management theory death-by-powerpoint was an inelegant rehash of things I've seen many times before.

WB seems to have been designed by committee--or to be a sort of reverse engineering derived from the old story of the blind men and the elephant:  Is WB supposed to be a tree, a snake, a fan...?  If we can carefully refocus on what the macro mission of Scouting is, then step it down to the unit level, then to the role of adults in that unit, I think we will have a clearer picture of what we need WB to be, and therefore how it should be refocused. 

 

See you on the trail!

Blaze

Thanks and welcome to the forums.

When I read the first post at first I was unaware that this was started back in 2009. Thankfully I figured that out before I sent them a PM. It is interesting that the first post is somewhat in agreement with the last one by Cyclops. The first post seemed angry that the game was doing some kind of disservice to the spirit of competition and therefore to the basis of the business world.

And then, years later, Cyclops seems to have had a similar impression.

I can see how this impression can be had. But as with all of these kinds of things, such conclusions are extensions or interpretations that seem unique to each person. There's nothing wrong with that but if someone has a different impression, that, by itsself doesn't negate the impressions of others. They're just different.

So I make this statement in the hopes that this discussion (and my presence in it) doesn't eventually (as Stosh suggested) get moved to that 'other' place (that I'm supposed to stop harping about, sorry).

We are moving in this direction, probably next FY. Another organization of which I'm a member also has 501 c3 status and during a recent audit (not any fun at all, BTW) it was found that the organization was not meeting one of the requirements for this status as well as the IRS thought they should. We weren't kicked out of the status but rather given a year to correct our operations, which we are doing. I was unaware of all this until recently and it was embarassing to have this out there.

Anyway, our chartering organization is very careful of their status and in a recent meeting, this issue was raised. They suggested moving the treasury, the account, and the oversight to the chartering organization treasurer's office. We were actually relieved at this proposal because in past years, when our unit treasurers had come and gone, we had confusion with each transition and it took a lot of time away from actual scouting. This new move will solve that and even better, the chartering organization treasurer seems to relish the thought of adding this to their duties.  For us it will be win/win.

Welcome to the real world. I'll be glad to help clean up afterwards.

Fred, I've observed similar things and I agree.

"Some guy on the internet said this pin on my BSA shirt collar here makes me out of uniform!"

LOL, and as we all know, 'some guy on the internet' is always THE authority on whatever subject because he's on the internet.

Stosh, you asked a question but you never answered it with your own answer.

Yes or no, if you add a pin to the collar of a uniform, does that mean you can drink alcohol?

If 'yes', then it means that addition of the pin takes you 'out of uniform' for official purposes and you can drink alcohol.

If 'no' then it means that with the pin addition the official uniform status is retained and you cannot drink alcohol.

So which is it for you?