vumbi

TAHAWK, he didn't say the SE 'authorized' anything, just that the SE didn't care. I wouldn't either. Worrying about infractions at this level would border on insanity.

But this topic caused me to wonder...has anyone tried embroidering the knots directly onto the uniform? These days it wouldn't be that hard, you'd just have to have one knot design and then multiple thread colors. Just wondering.

We had one adult leader who let them get under his skin and he unloaded on them with profanity. Those were his last words to be spoken as an adult leader in this unit.

Desertrat77, I guess I had it pretty good by comparison. As the first Eagle ever for my unit, no one had any better idea than I did about what it was all about. My COH consisted of two minutes of recognition in church one Sunday, lol. We've come a long, long way from that too!

Beavah, I'm glad things have gone so well for you. I asked the boys on our outing today if they'd ever heard of the church of the FSM? Not a single one. I'm guessing it must be regional or something.

Anecdotes only cut one way when producing a result that is destructive. And just as I agree with you that parody of others' beliefs is not value-neutral, I also maintain that questioning someone about their beliefs isn't either. And the questioner doesn't get to decide whether or not the question is welcomed or causes hurt - the boy being questioned does.

I wish you the best of success in the way you approach these things. I will continue to tread very lightly on matters of faith.

When I earned Eagle decades ago, I had no idea that there were people who were so critical, mean even, about Eagle. I hope the boys who earn Eagle these days are just as unaware of it as I was.

Yah, @@vumbi, yeh do understand that Pastafarianism really is a satire, right?   Though it's become a favorite in my local Italian restaurant.  It's also well enough defined, I reckon, for a lad to know what he's about.

 

I've heard similar or worse about Scientology, LDS, etc. from adults. The boys don't engage in this kind of 'labeling'. My example is real, not some contrivance.

 

In terms of the boy you mention, my question for yeh is why did the lad think a BOR was a test in the first place, eh?    Seems like his troop set him up for failure.  No need to make a board into The Test in the lad's mind.

 

He didn't in the first place. He did once his faith began to be examined. This is YOUR assumption about a situation of which you are ignorant in order to maintain support for your approach.

 

I'd also wonder why the troop's program didn't afford the lad opportunities to express his faith in ways that would help him build confidence?  We've got these lads for a lot of years between age 10 and when they come up for Eagle rank.  Years of talkin' about and tryin' to live da Oath and Law.... Duty to God and Duty to Country and Reverence and all da rest as a matter of personal character.   We've spent years of havin' lads of different faiths tryin' to live their faiths while livin' together respectfully...  somethin' that's downright unusual in much of the world. 

 

On what basis have you concluded that he didn't have these opportunities? Time to try some other logical fallacy.

 

If we didn't do our job to help a lad Be Prepared to be comfortable with his own belief (and doubts), and comfortable and respectful when encounterin' the beliefs and questions of others, that's on us, eh?  We failed the lad.

 

Yes, the process failed the lad when a review became an examination of his own faith by someone who shared your penchant for the application of 'labels'  (such as 'smart alec'), The boy was sincere at the outset. The board might have thought it was as well, but if I detected the tone, like the boy did, it wasn't just a matter of one person's misconception. Like I wrote, that board member will not do that again. The others learned a lesson as well.

 

Beavah

Reference to Heinlein...nice.

The last time I observed this kind of inquiry was a boy whose faith was not well-defined and one member of the board did what Beavah claimed he'd do. The board member questioned the boy about a faith for which the board member had no knowledge and it was taken by the boy as an attack on the boy's faith. The snide way the inquiry was presented made me feel the same way about it. The boy, being outnumbered by the board reacted quickly, defensively, and I could see he was upset by having his faith questioned by someone who didn't share it.

This is a good example of why this requirement is flawed. It doesn't take into account the way different boys might respond to questions like those Beavah would pose.

I met with the boy afterward and he was in tears, thinking he would fail the test. He felt betrayed by the EBOR and by BSA. He just couldn't understand why he was treated that way. I did my best to be supportive but it was hard because I felt much the same as the  boy did.

Thankfully, that board member is no longer going to be present in the future.

I've seen the 'conversation' this requirement starts end up being more of an inquisition. As a leader I basically can't say anything either and I've left the EBOR feeling as betrayed as the scout who got raked over the coals as a result.

The truth that is expressed by KDD and Stosh is a clear a statement as can be found that BSA should not poke its nose into matters of personal faith. Yes, the parent can write the letter and/or act as the reference. You can do almost anything you want and 'pass' this so-called 'requirement' which does what to its importance?

It makes the requirement empty of any kind of real meaning and it doesn't matter if the boy is deeply religious, the meaning of his faith, to him, is personal and obviously not enhanced or affected in any way by some requirement by BSA. But it does give those who want to poke their noses into others' business a good feeling.

Am I the only one who thinks that 9pm is kind of late for a planning meeting?

What jpstodwftexas said: yes.

The 'meaning' of eagle is probably unique to each recipient. I'm not sure anyone can characterize the 'meaning' for all recipients as a group. Best to just award the rank when they meet the requirements and let the individuals sort it out for themselves. After all (witness this discussion) that's what's likely to happen anyway.

Excellence on the trail. Sets goals and achieves them. Is a mensch.

Post hole diggers will do the job. However, like others have said, it really depends on where you are. Around here poor land management caused nearly all of the top soil to be lost over 100 years ago. All that's left is a shallow layer of leaf litter and a little organic soil and a whole lot of B horizon or even worse. You'd have to go to a nature preserve to find something that approximates what was here prior to when the Europeans swarmed over the continent.

Well you had me in another April first thing for a few moments. I thought you were about to announce a patch that I've never heard of, lol.

Rhode Island would just about be out of luck! And District of Columbia, probably shaped like what, a dollar bill?

From the start in Ga through the Blood Mountain segment is a pretty good starter. The stretch up through Albert Mtn. is spectacular and plenty of access to water off to the sides. Outside of winter, I'd just avoid GSMNP alltogether. Way too crowded. Actually, even though it's spectacular, it's so messed up most places I'd just hike it again for the record and not for the enjoyment.

Up around Blacksburg, Va is a really nice stretch and on into Shenandoah...just lovely.

But coming from KANSAS!!! Holy smokes I have a tough time imagining what kind of prep that would require.

For you I recommend the Ozarks. Closer too.

Mammoth Cave is worth a day. Land Between the Lakes is good too.

I will 'bend' my vow not to enter this cesspool in order to respond to a couple of comments on education.

 

I'm sure these entitled students want Yale and Harvard free education.  Instead would they be willing to go 2 years in a state technical college, then 2 at a state university for 2 years?  I doubt it. 

Actually, I rub shoulders with both of these kinds institutions (see avatar) and there is quite a growing interest in doing what Stosh, you say you doubt. One local 4-year state college is constructing new buildings just to house the 'bridge' students coming in from the tech schools. It seems to be a good working partnership and a very rapidly growing one.

As for that 'of color' comment by Krampus, the tech schools are quite open to all persons and in this area they are represented by minorities at rates roughly the same as the proportion in the population. OTOH, the 4-year public college near me has stringent entry requirements, but they do want more 'diversity'. Nevertheless everyone has to meet those entry requirements - unless you have special athletic skills it seems. But that's another story.

Now off to the shower....

We frequently do segment hikes and backpacks. Many are short enough to do in one day. A couple of segments can be a great overnight. It depends a lot on where you are. If you're in the extreme northern end, it can get pretty rough. The Nantahalas can be a challenge for some boys as well. Where are you located?

Our plan usually includes at least two vehicles, one for the troop and one for the shuttle. This means more than two leaders or else someone has to meet us at the takeout to drive back to the start. You can figure this out the best way that works for your group. The rest is just basic backpacking. Don't plan to use the shelters in the summer as they can get really crowded and in some places you should set up camp in designated areas. In some areas you can go off trail and camp most anywhere in national forest. Other places there's no camping, no campfires. Do your homework before you leave for the trail.

I frequently visit a place that has an annual 'burn' and the locals swear it's a naturally-occurring event. That one also seems to start on the other side of the ridge, rage through the high dry grass and then tops the ridge and works its way down the other side INTO the wind. I think the flame front is just so hot that it keeps igniting even the smallest wisps of fuel. The bare rocks remain bare but everything in its path is burned. And then it burns into the forest a short distance and stops...after expanding the area that will be regrown in grass for the next burn. I'm working on a way to reverse this trend.

Nail a board with an edge around it to the bottom of the bird house that was built.  Now you have a feeding station.  The scout already has his month in as a bird house with zero traffic at least now he'll have something more interesting to watch..... Make sure the seed is a variety of different types.  Finches like thistle, cardinals like sun flowers, chickadees and nuthatches like suet.  Turkey vultures and crows like road kill, so be sure to drag something dead up close to the house where you can watch it.

A dead thing, that is a GREAT idea. You can also watch all the different kinds of insects that help recycle the carcass. The insects will be the first to arrive. They'll enter the nose, eyes, ears, wounds, and anus. For me the thought causes a little 'pucker factor' if you get my drift.

On a similar note, you can do the same thing with an animal (for want of another term) turd (meadow muffin?). For either the carcass or 'that other thing', the boy can take a photo of it from the same angle every hour (in the case of that other thing) or every day in the case of the carcass and make a record of the recycling progress/process. Have to watch though, as a carrion eating bird might move it, and a passing dog might eat that 'other thing'. I wish I knew why dogs do that. They seem to especially like 'other things' from cats. Go figure. But I digress......

One birdhouse is unlikely to have more than one species of bird to use it in a season. I'd go with the feeding station. It will be used by everything that eats that food once it's been discovered. But don't waste your time putting it in the middle of the front yard or next to a street. It needs to be in a place where birds would tend not to encounter threats or else they might avoid it.

We have one just off the back porch and this morning we had at least 6 species coming through.

I wouldn't count a zero as having learned much of anything about nature.

Ooooooo, RichardB has invoked the......ORB!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAKWKfVcd04

I'll take a few hits off that thing, lol! So he'll ban 'the orb'. What's next, the orgasmatron? You can just imagine what the inside of that thing has all over it.