Rock Doc

1 hour ago, Col. Flagg said:

This happened a while ago when they broke the former Venturing YPT training into these multi-module set of courses. This was a while ago. I doubt that BSA thought that far in advance to about adding new modules. Never seen them do that before. Planning ahead? 

The "new" format of modular YPT has only been around for a month or so. Several of our venturers completed the "old" Venturing-specific YPT last month. The crew committee training was revised close to a year ago, and now consists of a dozen or so modules.

Regardless, the question remains - how does this "new" YPT format serve Venturing? For that matter, how does it serve the newly-forming dens of female cub scouts?

Has anyone in Venturing completed the new YPT? I'm hearing that it's missing coed issues as well as older teen concerns. Seems like the one-size fits all may not adequately address the Venturing program...

2 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

We had four zip lines coming in from the cardinal points. Dads on ladders with multiple arrows per zip line (12 kids, 4 lines, 3 arrows each). Name called, arrow let fly.

Oh, one dad was able to rig a small blower in the back of the fire place. When the arrow made contact with the fire the blower let out a little "puff" which, aimed upward, cause the fire to roar. Cheap special effect but it was pretty cool.

This might just work! Adding details like this can make a relatively simple action quite impressive and highly memorable - and what soon-to-be Boy Scout isn't going to love fire raging at the sound of his name!

2 minutes ago, MattR said:

You're asking what has the same thrill and impact as a flaming arrow without the flame or the arrow (sounds like a Five Easy Pieces quote: "A chicken salad sandwich. no butter, no mayo, no lettuce, hold the chicken").

How about replace the point on the arrow with a dull point? Or make the entire lake a shooting range and get the RSO or whatever is needed for archery (and place a target at the other end of the lake). Nothing will beat the flame but even a glow stick would be fun to watch. As for arrows falling into the lake get a canoe and go find them. The scouts could have fun with that.

We tried the adminstrative approach, but the camp ranger wasn't into playing games, and we're not interested in incurring his wrath! So, no bow-fired projectiles, pointy or not. And yes, the Boy Scouts had great fun retrieving the "spent rounds"

Just now, Col. Flagg said:

Arrow on a zip line in to the fire. Still used by many council camps so if they can do it, why not a unit?

I've seen fires lit this way, and given enough "liquid encouragement" the effect can be "illuminating"!

In our instance though, we could have upwards of a dozen AOLs, so I guess mulitple zip lines might work. Thanks!

Many years ago, our Pack began the tradition of holding the AOL ceremony at a lakeside amphitheater, and launching flaming arrows into the lake as each scouts name was called. Since it's now been determined that these theatrics aren't entirely in keeping with the GTSS with respect to range safety, safe use of fire, etc., we're trying to come up with an impactful, albeit compliant, replacement. I've seen elaborate pulley systems that draw flaming objects along controlled paths, bundles of glow sticks tossed in the air, drum beats, etc.  So, what are other Packs/Troops using?

3 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I heard a rumor that was at Camp Raven Knob, NC. Some units go to the same campsite for summer camp for decades so they invest in better improvements, etc.

I've seen adopted camp sites at several NC camps, including Raven Knob, Grimes, and Daniel Boone. Some get pretty elaborate, with shelters, power, engineered fire pits, hammock stands, and benches. These camps all have online registration for weekend camping, so it's easy to reserve your favorites.

Our Crew is looking for an integrated, highly-accessible (smartphone, tablet, and laptop) system to track events, training, progress, money, and messaging, and Scoutbook by all accounts should be the silver bullet, right? Not so fast, as it really lacks Venturing-specific functions. So, what are other crews using to keep everyone informed and in touch?

40 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

NYLT is a week long course similar to WB. except there is no ticket. Rock Doc's program sound more like the old training from the 1980s, or maybe older, that I took to be "trained" as a PL. My course was TLT, but on a camp out.

 

 

Our NYLT program (http://topgun.mcc-bsa.org/home) is also a week-long camping experience. The SEALS program (https://sites.google.com/site/mccseals/what-is-seals) has been around  in our Council for about 10 years.

22 hours ago, Back Pack said:

This would not work in my troop. We do a good troop leader training that fills the first training course role. Next is nylt at 13. It is more conflict resolution than leadership training. Nayle was more voa level imho. It doesn’t sound like nylt is the same in all areas. A good spl should be able to get a great deal out of nylt. Our tlt was awesome for pl training. But I guess some troops may not have that program. 

We also use the Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops (ILST) training materials following each unit election, which provides a solid foundation for all younger youth. The PLC is required to attend ILST to be considered trained to position, but all are welcome. ILST covers much of the same territory as SEALS, but doesn't have the same immersion (SEALS is a weekend camping experience). We find that SEALS grads come back energized and ready to lead, and are often recruited to serve as staff for SEALS and District/Council camps. I agree with NAYLE being more appropriate for VOA, but it's not readily accessible to most in our area.

19 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Gotta be a regional or local thing. Never heard of any change to NYLT in my area.

I have seen the NYLT patches that look like the "Trained" patches. I have seen off-issue ones too done by local councils or units. I have head a few districts call their leader training "SEAL Training" and other such names to make it sound more elite than plain-old NYLT.

I'd be interested to see how/if these programs differ from NYLT. To carry on the metaphor I'd liken NYLT to advanced flight training. I'd call NAYLE more akin to "Top Gun" or "Red Flag".

In our council, SEALS (Scouts Excited About Leaderships Skills) is a precursor to NYLT (aka Top Gun). The SEALS program focuses on the 11 to 14 year-old scouts who predominantly fill PL roles, while NYLT is for 14+ (including Venturers) destined for SPL and VOA roles

Ours meets once a month, usually right after the monthly campout. The PLC plans the next month's meetings, and at the same time ASMs work with the Instructors and Quartermaster to prepare for the upcoming activities.

Some camps require everyone to do the swim check at camp, rather than at home in a pool. Just something to consider if you're planning to manage a fear of murky "natural water" - check the camp-specific leaders guide.

Sorry to hear this unfortunate situation. You say that your son is already an Eagle Scout, so is this project an extension of his commitment to a lifetime of service, or is he actually a Life Scout working on his Eagle Scout Service Project? 

Either way, it sounds like a situation that could have been avoided if expectations were clearly communicated before work commenced (in the Eagle Scout Project Proposal and Work Plan) and feedback was received during construction. Firstly, I'd recommend a face to face meeting with the beneficiary, your son, and his Eagle Coach, so that all parties can review the Proposal (which the beneficiary signed agreeing to the scope of work). I encourage our scouts to share the Work Plan with the beneficiary to agree on the details developed from the Proposal, and then hold a pre-construction meeting at the project site to agree on the specifics.

Hopefully, the Proposal was detailed enough to show that the work was only to be performed on the exterior and to meet certain standards. Good luck!

Several years ago, our troop decided to invest a small windfall into a fleet of Kelty Gunnison backpacking tents. In the early days, the scouts took great care of the tents; kept them clean and dry, and respected what they were given. These tents have shown to be remarkably durable, they're lightweight for backpacking (when shared between 2 or 3 scouts), and until recently Kelty took care of most repairs. However, Kelty has just informed us that they will no longer provide warranty repairs, and we're on our own to keep them serviceable. I don't doubt that many of them will last several more years, but we're now faced with what to do going forward. Managing a fleet of troop tents can be a chore, but if it means we get more scouts camping, and especially backpacking, I think it's worth the effort.

So, my long-winded question is, do many troops provide tents, and if so do you opt for backpacking-style (full coverage fly, <5 lbs, etc) or heavier outfitter-style tents suitable for tail gate camping? And as a follow-up, does your Quartermaster take the lead on managing tent inventory and maintenance, or is there significant adult "support" involved?

Yes, if we just had more adults around "to run things."  

 

We agree on one thing - leadership is the issue.  BSA has misplaced leadership training for youth by eliminating anything between the unit and week-long courses.  The former is typically, but not universally, incapable of delivering the training and the latter is not attractive to the majority of youth for a variety of reasons.  Our one notably successful Venturing crew has a WB Course Director as Crew Advisor.  She runs several effective training days a year, reaching out to bring in staff from outside the unit and council, and the leaders of that crew plan and carry out a diverse and exciting program with 25-40 active members over the last six years .  We have had other adults in the area run "unofficial" training weekends for Venturing leaders, and we need more of that response to deficiencies in "official" programming.

Mecklenburg County Council runs a highly successful youth leadership course that bridges the gap between unit-delivered ILST and council-sponsored NYLT, known as Scouts Excited About Leadership Skills (S.E.A.L.S). This course is targeted at 11 to 14-yr old scouts to teach them the skills to become proficient Patrol Leaders, and focuses on team dynamics, teaching using the EDGE method, camping using LNT methods, and SMART goal planning. Graduates from this weekend-long program come back to the troop buzzing with enthusiasm and primed to make a difference.

From the GPS standpoint, we've had good success using the free "Backcountry Navigator" app on smartphones. Download the maps (free, and high quality to 1:24,000) ahead of time so you can access them offline/airplane mode. You can drop way points and perform all the functions required for the new 1st Class navigation requirement.

I guess what I'm hearing is that "it depends". The level of maturity and responsibility of the PLC will vary with each election cycle, and some may embrace and respect the privilege while others may go another direction. Only time will tell. Although, I'm hopeful that we can come to some compromise where limited use of technology when and where appropriate will benefit the overall experience. Thanks for the input!

We have two way radios with weather radio on them. The youth leaders are trained to use them and that's how we stay in touch on such events. Almost makes up for them not having phones.

We've tried 2-way radios, but our council camp is very hilly and radio reception is spotty at best. Verizon and AT&T have good coverage over most of the camp, and texting works everywhere. 

Scouts cannot use mobile devices. They remain in the car. They can use while travelling but not at camp. If used as cameras, they may use them during the day but they are put back up at night. At summer camp they are not allowed, period. Violations are handled by taking away the device privilege at the next event.

 

If there's a need for GPS, we have our own units Scouts can use. Anything else they need they can either 1) use their Handbook or 2) bring a print copy of what they need (e.g., MB books).

 

Adults have more leeway. Why? Well adults have different requirements than Scouts, especially at summer camp. Some parents are on call, others use their devices to help the youth leaders managed things, some are used for comms devices in camp. 

This was essentially our previous stance, with the exception of the camera usage. We don't own GPS units, and smartphones can use free GPS apps, so that seems like a justifiable use.

We have found that at large events, such as camporees or OA conclaves, it's helpful for the PLC/senior scouts to be able to coordinate their efforts when spread out over a large area. Granted, the ASMs could facilitate, but we're trying to let the PLC act as autonomously as possible.

Ditto on the adult usage

I'm curious if the prior zero policy also applied to adults as well?  

It did not. But, recognizing the potential hypocritical perspective we only used them sparingly

For various reasons our troop has always had a zero cell phone/smartphone policy, and despite the odd infraction we successfully maintained an electronics free environment. However, recognizing the power and utility of smartphones we recently worked with the PLC to draft a digital device policy to allow the PLC to carry their devices (with a current Cyber Chip) during campouts to help with communications, access relevant information, and for use as a GPS for the new 1st Class requirement. Devices are required to be stored otherwise. Our digital device policy also includes language to prevent YPT issues (use is prohibited in sleeping and changing areas). Just curious how other troops handle this issue, what pitfalls you've encountered, and any advice you could share as we work to adopt this new policy.

Something to consider down the road is how your son's troop defines what it means to be "active", as BSA is a little fuzzy on this aspect and allows troops to make their own decision. Our troop requires 50% participation in meetings and activities for 1st Class and above, and 75% participation for scouts holding positions of responsibility. There's also some latitude for non-scouting activities that align with Scoutings aims. As Chisos stated, your son will need at least 16 months to complete Star, Life, and Eagle while demonstrating that he meets his troops definition of being "active". 

We have a fleet of Kelty Gunnison tents in 2 and 3-person versions. They weigh 5 to 6 lbs and have been very durable. Full coverage fly, plenty of mesh for warm weather, and sturdy in high winds. Kelty has a great warranty program, and has fixed the odd tear and broken pole at no cost.

However, they're being used less and less since the hammock craze has taken hold!

I know that most of us are more familiar with Eagle Scout Service Projects involving building tangible products such as playgrounds, sheds, bridges, gardens, etc. But has anyone had experience with a scout hosting a blood drive, and if so, how did they demonstrate adequate planning, development, and leadership during the process?