BSA24

Meanwhile, two guys are still discussing the topic...

Bart said:

> Not just the LDS church, there's the LDS, Catholic, and Methodist churches, whose websites

> say that they don't support homosexuality. That's 39.32% of registered Scouts,

There are a lot of assumptions there that we have no facts upon which to base them:

* Units would fold if CO's said they were out

* CO's would follow their national guidance

* CO's national orgs are united on these policies as perceived

* BSA would not default to local control which would not threaten CO's at all

The UMC doesn't support the policy. Don't know where you read that. They have asked it be changed.

> Losing such a big hunk of Scouts, though, wouldn't just hurt finances. T

> hat'd be a lot of Scouts leaving

I don't think it will be that bad. It is inevitable. When it happens, it will end with a whimper and not a bang. LDS will get some special exception, the others will shrug, there will be two news stories of gay guys joining troops, and then not a another sound about it ever again.

Change is painful and should have a purpose other than inducing change for its own sake. Life is not a slot machine, and we shouldn't be pulling that handle for no good reason because you don't know what will happen.

WAKWIB: I see your incompetence and raise you my own experience. Your medical form needs to be the new one and a new physical too or you cannot be on staff at this event. And they stick to their guns so tightly that even when proven wrong with calls to council and national, they just fall back to "I am requiring it" and refuse to move an inch.

It will happen all over the country. Because district leadership is where people migrate to when they like telling other people "No."

Maybe they admitted them because members wanted them allowed so they could golf with them. It could be that simple. I wouldn't mind spending a day picking the brain of someone like Condi Rice. The idea that she would not be admitted to something that would accept the likes of me, well, that's hilarious.

No, Augusta National would not accept the likes of me. It was just an expression.

For the sake of all, read and follow the Den Meeting Resource Guide. Also read and use the ceremony guide and the program helps and how to books. A good den leader is buried in that stuff, and has some measure of faith that the books are more in tune with the boys than the den leader is.

I never liked the TDL knot. I think it's ugly. It looks like Halloween colors, and the square knot artwork is poor compared to most of the others.

Before you react, consider the den leader award with the blue and yellow knot. A medal is being considered for it. In the past, it was a white ribbon with a green stripe and a gold filled diamond with a FDL on it. It matched up quite nicely with the scouter training award, which is also now available.

I would like to see the scouts move to knots which are all khaki edged and backed with only different color rope on them to make them a little more subtle. I am glad to see the CS, CM, WDL, TDL, and especially the pack trainer knots die. Hideous. Truly hideous. The yellow color of the knots isn't even Cub Scout gold on the CM knot. The Trainer - I don't know who authorized that thing but they should be reprimanded.

Please encourage him to earn the Hornaday Award. That's a nice personal project to run after Eagle. The award is handsome, and it is good for the planet.

Congratulations, Scouter!

Due to your incredible achievements in the Boy Scouts of America, you are being added to the Yearbook of Excellent Scouters. We need you to fill out the attached form to allow us to print your material in the book.

Each book is $100. To be included, you must order at least one copy.

> 24....If you are who you really say you are then you

> know that no FOS dollars were spent on the arena.

I have never said who I am. I have done duty as a COR of a small chartering org and a couple of scout units and as a unit commish. What do you think I said I am?

I have no idea where FOS money goes. I only know that I am not giving any $$$ out of my pocket to BSA, and I can't believe they have the gall to ask for extra donations while spending millions on facilities. They can account for it however they want - it is still bad, bad financial management. Unless of course the finances are being managed to fill wallets.

Why would a scout exec be a program guy? The professionals have nothing to do with program. They are there to raise money through popcorn, FOS, special events, etc. They are concerned with recruitment and access to schools. The volunteers are the ones who deliver the program. There's no program in the scout exec's scope.

The IH appointed me the COR which makes me the defacto interpreter of BSA program for my units.

It is true our unit requires an official uniform of each boy and each leader. We require it as much as we can, which is to say about as much as the uniform guide. We say it is required, and then people either do it or don't, and we don't do anything other than say, "Where's your uniform?" when they arrive.

As to which parts to follow, that is simple. I like the idea of the basics of the uniform. I think some of the smaller, more detailed rules are stupid. Especially the rules about the OA sash not being worn on the belt.

Am I required to be a black and white thinker who either hates uniforms entirely or follows the uniform guide to perfection? I do not believe I am required to be such.

Is there a guide of uniform thought somewhere? Please say there is. I would like to set about breaking its many rules immediately. (This message has been edited by bsa24)

Web forum burped. Sorry for double post.(This message has been edited by BSA24)

This thread has been resurrected! It's a miracle!

I'll happily pile on.

Anyone that looks at the uniform guide in reference to anyone's uniform other than their own has lost perspective.

It's a "guide." It's not a law. It says the official way to do things. There are no consequences for not following the guide other than social harassment and teasing. There's no such thing as a "violation."

OA's rules about sashes are silly. They are overly controlling and fail to acknowledge the wide feedback they are getting from their own membership about wanting to hang it on the belt, wanting black sashes, and wanting lodge flaps that indicate membership degrees.

It's hard to care about their rules when they are arbitrary and decided by people in some tower somewhere who do not seem to care what the population is doing or wants to do. Very undemocratic, really.

I can't get over the fact that BSA wants me to give them Friends of Scouting money while they simultaneously built this monstrosity to avoid paying rent to someone for their farmland. This seems to be a recurring theme with BSA. Build a gigantic unneeded structure, beg families and corporations to help them make budget, build more unneeded facilities.

There's no way you could run business like this in a for-profit environment. Makes my head hurt to imagine it.

Funny... my pagan activity book from cub scouts didn't look like that one. That must be an updated edition. LOL

LOL

Just in case no one else gets the joke:

> In 2005 Nugent was involved in a legal battle

> for not paying enough child support for a child

> he had out of wedlock in 1995

> In 1978, Nugent began a relationship with seventeen-year-old

> Hawaii native Pele Massa. Due to the age difference

> they could not marry so Nugent joined Massa's parents in signing

> documents to make himself her legal guardian

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nugent

Eagle: I didn't know they could do that. Very cool. Thanks.

Just buy the spiral bound edition and a book cover both sold at scoutstuff.org. Problem solved.

I don't know if the intent was to create a chilling effect on retirees or if it was to legitimately ask them for their support.

It was a amateur hour move by BSA, though, and will play poorly in the press and make them look more desperate than they are. Or are they?

The purpose of this thread was to get some folks to look in the mirror. You want sympathy and understanding. So to gay people. You say they are aberrant, but you want others to look at your flaws and say they are normal and complex.

It's a two way street. Expecting love and understanding when you don't give it, as BadenP pointed out to me above, is ridiculous.

I ask that all scouters who think they are absolutely sure they know everything they need to about what it is like to be a homosexual in our society to consider what it felt like to be singled out for having a nice waistline. You were not rejected from an organization. You were not threatened. You only had a jerk in a forum (me) suggest you be banned from BSA.

It hurt your feelings. It made you angry. Some of you ranted. One guy even registered and went on a tirade about it.

If only there were so much passion for empathy toward people who are different than us instead of only ourselves and our own condition, yes?

It was an experience like this I had with a coworker which opened my eyes to the bigotry I used to feel and the actions I take. Years ago I was campaigning for gays to be denied marriage. Today, I feel differently, because like everyone else, I am in many, many ways a seriously flawed failure of a man, but I want compassion and understanding.

I must be willing to be that person I wish to have around me or I do not deserve it.

> A corporate leader the progressive left can fawn upon.

And he's an Eagle Scout with the world's 9th largest company behind him. AT&T could shore up BSA from lost Mormon financial contributions without even blinking. They make more in net income than BSA has total assets.

Maybe that american shield over the eagle's chest will become a little blue and white globe. LOL

Your body fat % is a better measure of your overall health in terms of obesity. For the average person, BMI and body fat track pretty tightly with each other.

I'm fairly thin, and my body fat is around 16% and BMI is a 25.

If you are poopooing BMI as an accurate measure of health, then hold a body fat measuring device in your hands (you can get one for about $40) in the morning and find out what your body content is. There's no living in denial when you hold one of those and you are over 20% body fat or higher.

My neighbor was ranting about his BMI being BS because he has muscles. 30% body fat. There's no excuse or rationalization to make that go away. Only exercise and smaller portions at meal time can cure it.

I still laugh every time I see another angry rant on this thread. I laugh really, really hard. People arguing that being gay is a choice but being fat can't be helped is huh-larious. Arguing that atheists taking the scout oath would be breaking it while denying you are responsible for your weight and smoking and instead of fixing it asking others to not point it out or criticize it is just unbelievable hypocrisy.

Instead, maybe it is better to accept we are all flawed or perhaps disappointing to one another in one way or another, and simply be more accepting and less judgmental of the gays and atheists. You know... judge not, lest you be judged yourselves and all that.

(This message has been edited by bsa24)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/boy-scouts-reaffirm-ban-gays/story?id=16795868#.UCRliPZlTnh

Randall Stephenson, the CEO and Chairman of AT&T, a major supporter of BSA and a member of the National executive board along with his coworker Ralph Dela Vega has said he is committed to ending the ban.

He takes over as President of BSA in 2014.

The avalanche has already begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. --Kosh

http://www.scoutsforequality.com/

What we have here folks is a failure to distinguish between behavior and labels. Diversity is allowing people of differing labels to be included without arbitrary, ignorant, beliefs about them based on how people label them to be included.

Diversity is not allowing people of differing BEHAVIORS to be included when those behaviors are arbitrary and ignorant or cruel to others.

It's the difference from disallowing membership to someone who fails a background check and disallowing membership to someone because you labeled him and think, "All them people like that are not to be trusted."

The irony, here, Beavah, is that you do not understand that, and went to such extraordinary lengths to demonstrate it.

> An AHG member is called to live a life of holiness,

> being pure of heart, mind, word and deed, reserving

> sexual activity for the sanctity of marriage;

> marriage being a lifelong commitment before God

> between a man and a woman.

So then no one is allowed to be a member?