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BSA24

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Posts posted by BSA24

  1. > Unfortunately, this sounds like the self satisfied comments of someone blessed by being in a strong unit who doesn't care a fig about anyone else.

     

    It is the unit's choice. Caring a fig or not about others is irrelevant and not our place to judge others - only ourselves.

     

    It is the responsibility of the district to make fun activities, run them well, and then market them such that units wish to attend. Units skipping it is feedback about the quality of the event or the desire to even have such an event.

     

    Supply-side scouting always fails.

     

  2. From the perspective of the experienced unit leader with a successful program, the district is of zero value. A strong Cubmaster or Scoutmaster who knows what he is doing can recruit without the district, he can arrange outdoor experiences without the district, and he usually learns nothing at roundtable or district committee meetings except that his fellow leaders are crazy people that he has little in common with.

     

    They spread their negativity to the new unit leaders, and this is how round tables and committees die over time.

     

    To overcome this, district leaders must present themselves as servants of the units. Commissioners and committee members too often only approach units when the district needs something. They need someone to help with this or that. They need the unit to help them get the word out on something. Hurry up and recharter! Have you helped with our fundraiser this year? Can we do an FOS campaign in your COH?

     

     

    When the district is seen as having its hand out all of the time with nothing to offer, it is not surprising that they can barely function. Add to this typical district leader behavior: Constantly bragging on arcane scout knowledge, arguing little points of order that matter nothing to boys going outside and having fun, and generally running around like a snotty nerdy know-it-all who annoys everyone and never shuts the heck up.

     

    Most unit leaders would probably not care or even be happy to see the district collapse as an entity and just deal directly with the council themselves for everything.

     

    So, the question all district leaders must ask themselves: Have you given to units more than you are about to ask?

     

    I assure you the answer is "Hell no."(This message has been edited by bsa24)

  3. The Cub Scout Leader Book assigns the job of actually purchasing the badges to the Advancement Chair. That is the big thing that they do - go to the trading post and pick up the badges.

     

    In a well-run unit, the CM should be receiving the badges before the Pack meeting from the AC with a list of who is to receive what that he can use to award them during the meeting.

  4. The reasons you've given look like straw man arguments to me.

     

    You have a job. You have a hobby. You are a scout leader. You can also take a class in school, or you can also attend training. To say that someone is incapable of wearing more than one hat is absurd. Come on.

     

     

  5. The reasons you've given look like straw man arguments to me.

     

    You have a job. You have a hobby. You are a scout leader. You can also take a class in school, or you can also attend training. To say that someone is incapable of wearing more than one hat is absurd. Come on.

     

     

  6. How will adults doing scouting for themselves distract from the youth more than adults surfing the internet and posting messages on facebook during their downtime? We aren't smart enough to ensure the youth come first and still make room for some adult scouting as well during a scout meeting?

     

    Badges more important than the knowledge? WTH is that about? Badges are the inexpensive method Scouting has used since the beginning of time to spark interest in people learning new things and making themselves more valuable. That doesn't mean the patch is more important than the knowledge. It is simple recognition, as Ernest Seton saw many, many years ago, that giving out badges for accomplishments motivates people to undertake the accomplishments.

     

    I still do not understand any of the resistance to the idea. So far, the objections are:

     

    * You just want to be awarded badges! You childish, greedy, selfish, patch whore!

    * Adults can only do one thing at a time. Any attempt to learn anything new will cause adults to self-destruct as scout leaders and will bring BSA to its knees

    * This is the way we've always done it

     

    Is that about right? Not really a very powerful argument so far.

     

    Did anything bad happen prior to 1952 that is evidence there will be a problem other than BSA multiplying its membership by leaps and bounds?(This message has been edited by bsa24)

  7. There would probably be more respect for The Rules if they were democratically decided rather than being imposed from afar by a group of people that no one knows the identity of.

     

    It is amusing to see our little organization which is dedicated to creating good American citizens fail miserably at using democratic participation, our single-most dearly held tradition, to make decisions.

     

    Leadership lesson: You can never expect people to follow you unless you're already doing what they wanted to do anyway.

     

    When you make stupid rules banning little red wagons, the rest of your rules lose their ambiance of utility.(This message has been edited by bsa24)

  8. > Your right....tiger parents are required to registered....forgot about that.

     

    By who's requirement? I've never seen anyone who was a tiger parent registered as a scout leader unless they took a formal position in the unit.

  9. Banning electronics to youth while adults sit around the camp surfing on their ipads and iphones is a common practice. The boys are definitely sitting off somewhere cussing about the injustice of it. I think if you are going to ban electronics to youth, you have to ban them to the adults too. By ban, I mean leave them at home.

     

    Somehow we all made it through the 20th century without these infernal devices. You can still survive today without one. In a real emergency, just borrow someone else's. No one else is going to take my advice.

  10. The job of the District Commissioner is to hire Assistant District Commissioners, ensure they are trained, and organize and leader the Commissioner Staff Meeting. Your job is to make sure everyone gets a commissioner, and that the commissioners are helping units and the committee deliver district program to youth.

     

    The assistant district commissioners job is to recruit unit commissioners, see that they are trained, and monitor the service given to units.

     

    The unit commissioners job is to help units recharter, help with recruiting, and encourage, guide, inspire, and help unit leaders. You are a mentor for unit leaders.

     

    Nowhere in there is it any commissioner's job to contact parents. It is never the commissioner's role to serve as event promoter. That is the district committee's job - specifically the communications chair's job.

     

    You are out of line in multiple ways here. The unit leader has warned you. I would heed that warning. The unit leader can ban you from their pack meetings. You have no right to attend them. You are invited to them as a privilege. If you start stepping on toes, and I have seen this, you will find everyone who wears the silver loops unwelcome and unable to find out what the unit's activities even are. Then your FOS, popcorn, and JTE from that unit will disappear. Then they will start rechartering late just to teach you who is boss.

     

    Make no mistake, you work for the unit, they do not work for you or for scouting. They work for their boys and their chartering org. You are there to help them, not to help BSA.

     

    TL;DR: The commissioner works for the unit, not the other way around. If you make them angry, they can punish you and the district leadership.(This message has been edited by bsa24)

  11. SSScout,

     

    I would have just left her alone. You chose to battle another leader over what - her trying to be kind to others and do something fun for them?

     

    In wood badge, your patrol is awarded youth awards. Why couldn't she give them the patches and explain adults dont wear it on the uniform?

     

    She was just being nice and trying to make the training fun. What were you trying to do for others? Deny them something because... your outrage? She was doing service. You were serving who?

     

    Guys, the kids pay no attention to what the adults have on their uniforms and don't care. Where does this dumb idea that adults are competing with youth come from?

     

    The purpose of this thread was not to ask for recognition. It was to understand why adults are not trained to be first class scouts, and suggesting a patch for their blanket, chair, jacket, or keepsake box that motivates them to earn it. ITOLS is not the equivalent of first class training. And adults wouldn't be better leaders if they learned the material in various merit badges by working the badge themselves?

     

    The outrage expressed here at adults receiving badges is, in my opinion, most of what is wrong with scout leaders today. Someone wants to do something fun or nice, and some jerk comes along and wants to point out how it is wrong. It's like being at a star trek convention and being told that your uniform parts are mixing episodes of the show or something.

     

    Pick your battles. Remember everyone should have fun, not just the guy who likes to control others by reciting "The Rules", most of which are guidelines and not "rules."

  12. I'm sorry, but natural is exactly about what occurs in nature and happens naturally. And animal homosexuality is a proven fact. Any kid who raises mice or gerbils can attest to it. The line of thought in this thread is disturbing because it is starting to smell like theology pretending to be science.

     

    If it were not natural for there to be homosexuals, there would not be any homosexuals. Yes, murder is natural. Insanity is natural. Anything that happens is natural because it is what happens.

     

    That doesn't mean that anything in nature makes for a good society, though. Our sun exploding is natural, but we'd rather prevent it.

     

    Homosexuality has no negative consequences for our society which are not invented excuses with no evidence behind them.

     

     

     

  13. Anyone who grew up on a farm knows that homosexuality is natural. It exists among animals and serves multiple evolutionary purposes. Homosexuality limits procreation while providing sexual outlet in crowded or undernourished conditions. It produces individuals who sport unique characteristics blending the two sex roles allowing for different and creative perspectives among humans.

     

    There is no evidence that any natural law says homosexuality is not natural. Anything that happens in nature is natural.

     

    Man flying doesn't happen in nature. We should ban airline tickets to scouts based on natural law. And tents. And clothes. And houses. And air conditioning. And cars.

     

    This is an illogical and poorly thought out argument.

  14. Brewmeister and Acco,

     

    I refer you to page 18-3 of the cub scout leader book published by BSA.

     

    The section that deals with advancement states:

     

    See that advancement standards are maintained. Every boy should do his best to complete the requirements as presented in the program

     

    Under the committee responsibilities are:

     

    Get equipment. Help plan ceremonies. Go buy the badges. Encourage advancements.

     

    The standards of pack advancements and final say over badges is clearly the role of the CM.(This message has been edited by bsa24)

  15. I am not interested in personally earning eagle. I am already an eagle scout. I am interested in re-earning my merit badges and also others just for my own personal education. Maybe I will put the badges on a board or something in my home office for fun.

     

    I don't think "grow up" is a snesible response from a man who enjoys being around youth who wears knee socks.

     

    Thanks for the clarification on the year this actually changed. 1952. I also find the reasons for the change interesting.

     

    Maybe we should not assume that the requirements for adults would be exactly stage same.

     

    My main interest in this topic is that a lot of the leaders at know talk about how they wish they could do the program becuse they did not get to when they were kids. Also, a lot of our current adult awards are all based on training or working with adults or service to the company. I'd like to see our adults become better at scoutcraft and be first class scouts themselves.

     

    Shouldn't the leaders be visibly marked as qualifying as first class level scouts somehow?

     

    I'm still not convinced that I have read a convincing reason as to why this is a bad idea.(This message has been edited by bsa24)

  16. Bart, A television blitz paid for by AT&T would replace those kids in one cycle. We're talking 200,000 nationwide - maybe. Remember that LDS signs up every kid in the church, but only a small portion actually participate. It's a way of funneling LDS money to BSA.

     

    Barry, BSA already did this when they allowed blacks to join. Everyone said it would die. It doubled its size. It doubled again. And again. And again.

     

    History says that lowering the discrimination gets rid of controversy without really doing anything negative culturally to scouting.

     

     

  17. I love this problem. I have a lot of experience with it.

     

    1. She can take it up with whomever she likes. The Cubmaster has final authority on all badges awarded in the pack. If he says no, then no. The Cubmaster controls the pack meeting. He decides who gets awarded what ultimately. It's his job to maintain standards of youth recognition.

     

    2. BSA will not overrule the cubmaster

     

    3. The loops and pins for BB and Archery can only be earned at a district or council event. Period. You cannot earn them at a church archery range.

     

    4. Aquanaut he can earn in a pool with his parents. Let him have it

     

    5. Mom shouldn't even open her mouth about badges in a Webelos II den. The boy should bring you his book and tell you what he earned. He's supposed to be getting ready for Boy Scouts, not learning to ride in Mom's helicopter. Kick mom out of the conversation. Tell her to butt out. If she walks out, GOOD RIDDANCE!

     

     

  18. > The whole program is about the youth - not the adults.

     

    I would like an answer to this question: "Why?"

     

    Why is the program for the youth and not the adults. The adults were boy scouts, and most old boy scouts consider themselves boy scouts for life. Often the adults enjoy it more than the boys do.

     

    Until 1962, adults could earn the Eagle Scout Award and the merit badges. Daniel Beard earned his while serving as Chief Scout in 1915.

     

    In BPSA, there is still a Rover program for adults to earn badges and have fun scouting.

     

    Why is it today that adults enjoying scouting is taboo in BSA circles? This makes no sense to me.

     

    Frankly, I'd like to see adults working on the badges too. I'd like to see them to The Pull Up and run a quarter mile with the kids.

     

    I think the merit badges are great education. Why shouldn't adults study them as well?

     

    I don't understand the change in 1962. Frankly, I disagree with it.

  19. Welcome to the stupidity of the membership policy. Mom cannot wear the uniform, nor can the other mom. But they can go on the campouts with everyone, and they can sleep in the same tent. They can hold hands on hikes. They can kiss each other in the parking lot.

     

    The boys will be exposed to the gayness around these two continually depending on their conduct, but BSA has no conduct rule. BSA only has a membership rule which supposedly exists for these reasons:

     

    * The Book of Leviticus

    * To prevent the youth from seeing gay people

     

    Absolutely hilarious. If you can't see the ridiculous way that the policy fails to even operate in the bigoted fashion for which it is intended, you're blind.

     

     

     

     

  20. Sounds like whoever "BSA:" is (council? National?) learned from the previous PR nightmare and instead of just booting the guy they tried to reason with him and get him back inside the closet to save face and a good, long-term leader or asked him to step down after trying to provoke them publicly.

     

    I can understand why someone raised on television would think that the manly thing to do is to stand up, throw your medals at the Irving, TX office building, flip them the bird, and walk away never to look back. But it has never worked in the past to get anyone to change.

     

    If you want change, join the group, work your way up, and influence other members to see things differently. Posting here is more effective than quitting.

  21. Eagle92,

     

    Before the neck ribbons, there was a den leader award that was pinned on. Here's one:

     

    http://www.drexelantiques.com/after5500/5748scoutmedal.jpg

     

    This was the den leader coach award:

     

    http://images.cloud.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/1/1108/26/1_b71967a493e06c951dac330d00ef7800.jpg

     

    And Cubmaster's earned the Cubmaster's Key and other cub scout leaders earned the Scouter's Training Award.

     

    The system they are going to now is basically the old system pre-1987 system minus the Den Leader Coach's award.

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