BSA24

> you my friend will still be a bitter, ignorant individual who feels the need to attack people because they don't align themselves with your beliefs.

Thank you for your example of the behavior you describe.(This message has been edited by BSA24)

Wrong.

Calories in through the mouth > calorie intake required for weight maintenance = weight gain. It is a simple equation. Sorry that some have a slower metabolism, but eating more calories than required to maintain weight is a choice, not a victimization.

I would not partner any of my units with AHG. What about the non-christian families? They can be in the cub scouts and boy scouts, but then only the christian families get to be in this auxiliary you build for the girls? How is that going to work when you are recruiting? "How many of you like to go camping? OK, now only girls that accept Jesus Christ as their savior can go, but the Jewish boy over there, you can go."

And what about access into schools? You partner with an overtly religious organization, and BSA will lose access to the few public facilities they still have access to.

Good grief, folks. The kids just want to go camping. Having a code of conduct is great and all, but come on, those of us who were scouts were not fighting a culture war when we were boys. We just wanted to play survivorman and go to Summer Camp. Stop trying to make scouts into church. There's already church for that.

Let's stick to the scoutcraft and ease up on the churchcraft.(This message has been edited by BSA24)

> Who are you to cast judgement on someone.

As you did? See below:

> ignorant people with ignorant ideas.

Oh, Hypocrisy, thou art a noble steed upon which I might ride into the sunset without need of company or shelter. Thou givest unto me the ability to thrust upon others that burden which I cannot bear.

All kidding aside, you missed the point of the original post. It was to make a point at those who wish to keep out atheists and gays because they do not follow the scout oath. Well, there are plenty of people in the scouts not following the scout oath and law: smokers and fat people.

And while a very, very tiny percentage of fat people do not choose to be fat, most do, simply by lifting fork to lips. Claiming that fat people are fat on accident is like claiming that illegal drugs teleported into your bloodstream.

I am not in favor of banning fat people. I am in favor of holding everyone to the same standard. If oath breakers cannot be scouters, then all oath breakers of all kinds need to go.

And military service is irrelevant to this conversation. Bragging about it in order to attempt to give your offense more weight or sympathy with your audience is the opposite of making a strong argument.

When I read your message, it sounded like this in my head, "I am fat. My feelings are hurt. I did not read the rest of this thread. I will do whatever I can to avoid any possible truth you might have posted because my feelings are hurt. I am in the military. I am a tough guy. I cannot help being fat. However, I can help it by making my weight go down at will once my injury heals. Did I mention I am a soldier so scout people will worship me?"

Not really much of substance there but outrage.(This message has been edited by BSA24)

Bottom line: your son didn't go up with the rest of the troop due to some choice your family made. Isnt that the only issue?

He was offered a ride up, you were uptight and demanding about girls in the car, and he missed going outdoors.

You need to loosen up and either accept favors offered or decline them and be satisfied. No one is required to tote your son to camp.

Be upset with yourself for not letting him go because ... "OMG! Girls!"

I do not wear lodge flaps or knots or stars on my shirts. They are blank. I have that stuff in a box.

What drives a person to imagine that someone they disagree with must have some negative qualities beyond the debate topic? That's not healthy.(This message has been edited by Bsa24)

There is no eagle scout oath. It is just the creation of volunteers and published online by well intentioned creatve helpers.

I see it.

There is a psychological effect called polarization. A person's politics opinions become more extreme in the face of opposition. Most people are in favor of a government that blends freedom and security in balance. However, if a troll says the government should run everything, we will answer him angrily that government shouldn't exist. Even though we don't believe that really.

I assume nldsscouter was just trying to provoke us. No one in the thread self-identified as gay, and he didn't direct the words at one of us as name-calling. He simply listed them out to annoy his debate opponents as a way of expressing frustration with a point of view he doesn't understand or agree with.

I still am not comfortable making a character judgment about him or calling him names. I will only say that those words shouldn't be used because they are not courteous, kind, or friendly.

Then again, those three points of the scout law invalidate most of what appears on the I&P forum. Most people cannot be courteous, kind, and friendly while discussing issues they believe are defined by the word of God or basic human rights.

> I think OA should kick out people like you Myself.

There you go, badmouthing OA practices while you're a member.

> He didn't do it by himself.

"You didn't build that." -- Obama

LMAO

I do not understand why anyone cares if gay people get married.

* "Marriage" is not a person you can offend or injure - it's just a word we use to reference people who are legally paired up

* I don't understand why we have government involved in marriage at all.

* Consenting adults should be allowed to do what they want: Polygamy or whatever. The boys in the Bible certainly had plenty of wives to go around.

* I don't think married people should get discounts on taxes. There are too many children in the world already. Please stop making more.

* Kim Kardashian and other Hollywood nutjobs already did whatever damage was going to be done to the concept of marriage as serious business. No more damage can possibly be done.

I do not understand why I have any say so in who lives with who or whether they call themselves married or not.

I keep hearing speeches about how marriage is threatened? Who is this Marriage guy that feels threatened? Where is he? Marriage is not a person. It is not threatened. It doesn't care.

Monogamous marriage is a modern fashion. It was not popular for most of human history, and will likely vanish as a cultural habit in the future as well.

Prediction - expect the update 6 weeks before next version of IG comes out.

They still have not designed or ordered any den leader award medals which they decided to start using back in January.

I am aware of what I wrote. I think OA should be shut down. However, those are the service events my friends go to, so I go too.

Sorry that you got your own panties in a wad over it. You'll have to learn to live with the fact that you can't make decisions about what I do.

OA sucks. I'm still paying my dues. Too bad. Game over.

Please guys, stick to the issue instead of the raw criticisms and assumptions about someone's character. nld should have the ability to disagree without being called names or told they are hateful.

Get with the times, SP. ;-)

Pink is for breast cancer, and it's already been done. Rainbow is for gays, and that has already been done too. There's this little knot and a patch you can get:

http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/layer02/store.html

Founded by the Eagle Scout booted out for marching the gay pride parade in his uniform.

I would wear one, but I'm pretty sure I would be removed from BSA or at least every position I have in our council and as the COR. I wish I could trust my fellow scouters to understand the concept of supporting the organization overall without agreeing with something we do, and the value of public debate and disagreement. But I do not trust them.

The race to first class was based on an unscientific conclusion.

Study conclusion: Boys who reach first class within a year stay longer than boys who don't

Assumption not in evidence: Getting to first class is the cause of them staying longer

Faulty response to bad assumption: Make all the boys go to first class in a year

Result: Boys drop out at same rate and BSA membership continues to decline.

There is no evidence that the cause of them staying longer was getting to first class. The cause could have been some other factor that boys who make first class in one year often, but not always, have in common.

Actual conclusion: BSA leadership drew a dumb conclusion because not enough science training.

> Well I sure wouldn't be a Member of something if

> I did not like it

Really? You seem to not like this discussion and think it is "bad mouthing"? Why are you a member of it?

> and I sure wouldn't be a member

> and Bad mouth the Organization at the same time..

I see. Then you will not be criticizing anything our country does when the party you did not vote for is in office, then?

Oh wait, no it is only when you agree with the leadership of an organization that you don't bad-mouth it while a member.

>> I am a member because I believe in what OA Stands

>> for even with its ups and downs.

I am a member because for 40 years me and the same guys have shown up to what few service projects our lodge decides to do, and we enjoy working together and giving service to the community together. We have a good time.

Just because the crazies have control doesn't invalidate wanting to give service.

http://www.sageventure.com/history/changes/#skill

Boy Scouts returned to having the requirements for the skill awards that were required put back into the Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, and 1st Class badges.

I am unable to determine from what Bando wrote if he engaged in any bad behavior or not. He may have been very polite and composed as he stood up for what he believed.

Teenage boys read the news. They know about the policy. The policy is BSA's. Talking about the policy is not forbidden. I don't see the offense unless he yelled, shouted people down, or called names.

He just said something you disagree with when he had the stage, and you apparently don't like the idea of someone doing that.

> Just because the law is not properly enforced does not mean it is acceptable to speed.

Again, that is exactly what it means.

You might not like it, but it is accepted and therefore acceptable.

Let's not conflate preferences and emotions with facts. The sign at Home Depot says "Exit." When you walk toward those doors from the outside, they open. When you walk into the store, the employees still smile and greet you. The exit signs are not enforced. Therefore, it is acceptable to walk in. It is just a suggestion that you use those doors for an exit and the others for an entrance. The reality is, you can do whatever you want because there are no consequences.

There is no official Eagle Scout Oath. That's just the work of some volunteers trying to make impressive ceremonies. I took no such oath when I received my Eagle award. I had to research it to see what you were talking about.

There are also Eagle Scout "challenges" which are speeches give at COH's people have written, pledges, and charges.

The Scout Oath and Law suffice and are appropriately vague to not become tools to mandate a particular viewpoint.

Because my friends are members and we do service there. I guess we could all do it without the OA, but they want to stay in, and they want me to help, so I do. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean I won't do it if someone else likes it and it makes them happy for me to help them.

> "Is NLDScout the type of leader you want for YOUR sons?'

We can't tell what kind of person someone is from their anonymous internet postings on this forum. We have no idea what they are like with the families they work with and the youth they serve.

Trying to assess someone's character over the internet is a combination of imagination, creativity, and delusion.

The Scoutmaster has no right to determine if an Eagle badge is presented. He can't even decide if he is presenting it. The badge is awarded by the designated person the Eagle Scout chooses. It's a national award. It is not a unit award. Unit and district leaders, once they sign off on the BOR, are no longer part of the process and have no say in what happens next.

I personally know two SM's who were tossed out of BSA as adult leaders for trying to "add requirements" and hold Eagle Awards hostage.

The boy earned the badge. No matter what he does, you give it to him. It's his. Not yours.

> the U.S. Flag Code is a federal law. Because there are no legal penalties does not mean one may ignore the law.

LOL

That's exactly what it means.