BS-87

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/27/osama.escape/index.html Does this one work?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/27/osama.escape/index.htm I haven't heard anything in the news about Bin Laden in years. Then I read this article last Thursday and thought, "Yeah, wonder whatever happened to that dude." Something's fishy about an article hitting CNN out of the blue just days before he's killed. Quite fishy.

In Geraldo's defense, he said they shot and killed Obama then muttered under his breath while laughing at himself "Oh geez what am I saying." Edited to Add: Rush Limbaugh just said it's time to declare victory.(This message has been edited by BS-87)

SeattlePioneer - In many ways, I can imagine many Obama 2008 supporters are a little confused that their message of "Change you can believe in" really meant "4 MORE YEARS!" From Bin Laden to No Child Left Behind to Gitmo to Libya to Tax Cuts, etc... Barack Obama's done a great job of taking up the Bush banner and running with it...

packsaddle - You're right it's conspicuous, but I'm perfectly willing to accept the guy's dead. The reason I'm willing to accept it is because if he is alive and captured, he'll be learning the meaning of the term "enhanced interrogation techniques" Whatever the case, this is a big American psychological warfare win. It'd be great if we'd just pull out now, but we'll stick around in the Middle East until we've riled them up enough to make some new enemies worth posting their face on the front of newspapers.

Osama Bin Laden is dead. Before the media starts telling us how this will change the War, let's get our own opinions in here. Something tells me now would be the best possible time to bring folks home... If you demoralize this group (and by that I mean young Arab men who are susceptible to influence by Islamic Extremists just the same way young people who are Christian here are susceptible to being drawn into cults), it may incite them further. This is probably the end of the War on Terror, and the start of the one Middle Eastern caliphate (and no, I'm not miming Glenn Beck

1. Obama is a hypocrite when it comes to the debt ceiling http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/256199/obama-not-always-fan-upping-debt-ceiling-katrina-trinko If raising the debt ceiling now would be "catastrophic" and default us on our obligations, it would have done the same in 2006. It would not cause us to default then, and it will not now. http://www.heritage.org/research/factsheets/2011/01/the-debt-ceiling-time-options-and-action 2. Obama is indebting our unborn and future generations by not taking spending cuts more seriously. http://abcnews.go.com/Politi

Beavah - Every point I made on my Obama tirade is true. And just so you know, I'm going to spend A LOT of time providing you quotes and articles to prove each one of those points. I should have in the first place because I know better than to make accusations without showing the work in fact-checking, but I assure you there will be evidence forthcoming.

You are right that it doesn't say "native born" but the Amendment is only functional as an addendum to the classifications of citizenship. To that point in time, there were only two types of citizens mentioned in the Constitution. There were natural born citizens and those who were citizens by virtue of the grandfather clause. The 14th Amendment felt it necessary to clarify that if you're born here to immigrants (or slaves) or if you immigrate with the intention of staying, you should also be recognized as a citizen. The 14th Amendment ADDS these distinctions, and does not replace

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States" Thank you for pointing out the Amendment which added the distinction of "native born" to the existing "natural born" and "naturalized" Without this Amendment, slaves weren't citizens. That's why it was passed.

They'd be eligible because an embassy or military base are US holdings/ US soil. Your examples to discredit the rule by providing exceptions are becoming desperate.

Scoutfish- To repeat what I've said before. "You're right in that it's fallacious to assume that American parents will produce an American patriot. It's fallacious to assume that foreign parents will produce an un-American son. Therefore, we must use inductive reasoning in this instance to assume that in more cases that the American parents will produce more American sons, and we must set a benchmark or law to establish that (as our Founding Fathers did by clarifying "natural born" in the Constitution)"

Then let's look at the issues. Obama's a hypocrite on the debt ceiling. Obama's for indebting our unborn generations. Obama's for refusing to fix entitlement programs, leading to their eventual implosion when the children of today are retiring. Obama's for entangling our nation in foreign conflicts with oil as the motive. Obama's for expanding welfare programs, perpetuating and making incentives for the welfare state, and making it harder for people on welfare programs to escape their current and dire situation. Obama's for raising taxes on EVERYBODY by increasing

Schiff - I like how you think!

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/04/28/superman-renounces-citizenship-00th-issue/ This is unacceptable...

packsaddle - You're right in that it's fallacious to assume that American parents will produce an American patriot. It's fallacious to assume that foreign parents will produce an un-American son. Therefore, we must use inductive reasoning in this instance to assume that in more cases that the American parents will produce more American sons, and we must set a benchmark or law to establish that (as our Founding Fathers did by clarifying "natural born" in the Constitution)

Eamonn - Your son is 100% American. He's a native born citizen. The only thing he won't be able to do as an American is hold the nation's two highest executive positions. He doesn't even need to know that until he figures it out himself, because the odds are greater he'll win the lottery than seriously consider a presidential run. packsaddle - The NEED is for only those who have had a completely devoted, American life, and have been raised by people who themselves have lived as American citizens to represent our nation as its figurehead and chief executive. This

CalicoPenn- The only reason courts aren't hearing the case is because they're denying every case that comes to them on the grounds that the people who are bringing the cases don't have standing. If any state made the distinction as to what a "natural born" citizen is in order to appear on the ballot for the presidential race, the case would go to the Supreme Court. You're right though, this can be argued now and it doesn't change anything now, but isn't it important to know in the future? Your opinion on Vattel's Law of Nations is your opinion. It does not change the fact t

Beavah is either purposefully misrepresenting what I'm saying or doesn't understand. If two naturalized citizens have a child on US, it will be "natural born" I'm also not arguing that the President wasn't vetted for this, he was. However, the current interpretation as it stands is incorrect. I have never called for Obama to be impeached over this, as it would be impossible. I am saying that we need our SCOTUS to analyze this subject again so that it can be clarified, as there is certainly room for confusion and doubt in their current stance.

BadenP - Oh. Ok. I guess since you say I'm wrong I must be wrong. The fact that your argument has no proof or logic and is simply a conclusion that relies on itself as a premise has no bearing on your validity. But since you (the one without and argument or proof) say I (the one with an argument and proof) am wrong, it must be so. I have never argued that Obama was born outside the US. And I'm glad to hear you think I'm a broken record because that means I'm consistent, unlike that fool Trump.

"There simply is no valid, articuable theory that a child, born to a citizen parent, in the United States, is not a natural born citizen." You are entitled to the opinion that the 14th amendment limits the categories of citizenship to "natural born" and "naturalized". It also happens to be the belief held by the SCOTUS for the time being. However, there is a valid opinion that the 14th amendment brought about a third category of "native born" which only requires birth in the United States OR to an American citizen. "Natural born" is not an either or, it requires being born here or

perdidochas - If you're concerned about why our POTUS isn't eligible even though he's native born, you haven't done the backreading in this thread. To sum it up, he's "native born", but not "natural born".

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/04/27/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf Did anyone on this forum say that Hawaii never made this kind of certificate? I know I'd read it somewhere, but probably not here. Anyways, the fact still remains that he probably isn't eligible. The really good news is that the "birthers" had better shut it now with the conspiracy stuff. They got what they asked for. If they continue with the crazy talk... Obama will win in 2012...

SR540Beaver - I'm a big Gary Johnson fan as well, and would love to see a Paul/Johnson, Johnson/Paul ticket. I do think though that he'll have an even harder time facing the status quo republicans that Ron Paul does.

Ron Paul is in! Announcing this afternoon!